04-20-2009
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#1 (permalink)
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| Guns-A Constitutional Right?
As a non-american i have absolutely no idea about the constitution so my question is as the title suggests.
Is it in the constitution?.....Can it be changed? Are you for or against guns?
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The phrase 'suck it up' seems to be IN right now.
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04-20-2009
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#2 (permalink)
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The constitution of the US is actually a very brief document, written after the failure of the Articles of Confederation, an earlier attempt.
It was written by a small, elite cadre of intellectuals led by James Madison, who served as President during the War of 1812.
It was felt that, in order for the constitution to grow and evolve with time, there needed to be a system of emendation. The first ten amendments are called The Bill of Rights and are considered the cornerstone of our republic's ongoing success.
The second amendment is quite specific: Quote: |
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
| There have been discussions over what, exactly constitutes a "well-regulated Militia", but overall the 2nd amendment is really clear. Only after freedom of the press and freedom for free exercise of religion (the first amendment) was the essential right to own firearms protected by the Founding Fathers.
I'll admit that it took me a while to figure this one out; personally I'd never own a firearm. But it's essential to American freedom that we honor the second amendment and its principles of self-defense and greater self-determination.
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04-20-2009
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#3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mitchymo As a non-american i have absolutely no idea about the constitution so my question is as the title suggests.
Is it in the constitution?.....Can it be changed? Are you for or against guns? | Second amendment: 'A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed'
It has been upheld by the courts, including the supreme court, as a personal right.
In some areas, some types of weapons have been restricted. There are also supposed to be background checks.
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Free Tibet, Cigar Babe, and LPSG
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04-20-2009
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#4 (permalink)
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Can amendments not be changed or omitted? Does having this right mean anything of value?
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The phrase 'suck it up' seems to be IN right now.
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04-20-2009
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#5 (permalink)
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The Constitution and Bill of Rights are sacred to many in the U.S. - items can be reinterpreted or amended, but the basic framework stays the same.
No one that believes in their 2nd amendment rights would give up their guns, as a result, legislation and court rulings reflect that reality and uphold the right.
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04-20-2009
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#6 (permalink)
| | Banned
| Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchymo As a non-american i have absolutely no idea about the constitution so my question is as the title suggests. | Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchymo Is it in the constitution?.....Can it be changed? Are you for or against guns? | Yes, it is in the constitution. Theoretically . . . yes it can be changed via an amendment. However I don't see that happening any time soon. I am for guns . . .within reason. I see no reason for the average citizen to own an assault rifle, flame thrower, or machine gun. I am for guns. I don't currently own one; but there is a range near my house and I'm thinking about going and taking shooting lessons. The radical right-wing conservatives have been stocking up on guns and bullets since November because they fear Pres. Obama will repeal the 2nd Amendment. I don't think he is stupid enough to do this as it would likely cause a civil war. |
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04-20-2009
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#7 (permalink)
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u keep poking ur stick into this hornets nest don't u mitchy
I'm a gun owner and believe that the 2nd amendment protects a personal right to own guns, something obama supports as well, despite what most right wing NRA nutballs would tell u.
at the same time i don't believe it would be best for the public good to have the entire populace armed 24/7, so i think what we have now is about the best balance you could hope for, given that repealing or modifying the 2nd amendment in ANY way is about as likely as james dobson opening a chain of drive through abortion clinics.
Kali is right, federally we have the 2nd amendment , but there are hundreds of state and local statutes that regulate the sale, registration, acquisition as well as carry permits for guns. politically an assault weapons ban is probably the most explosive gun issue, even though law enforcement wants some form of it nation wide.
| Et in Arcadia Ego |
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04-20-2009
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#8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mitchymo Can amendments not be changed or omitted? Does having this right mean anything of value? | no, just that it's the way we won our independence from u fuking brits and your kings opressive rule.
without a militia and individuals owning guns we never would have been able to kill enuff redcoats to send your limey asses packing. I think that whole ordeal was pretty fresh in the minds of the people who wrote the constitution & bill of rights.
i guess the revolutionary war isn't celebrated there quite the same way it is here | Et in Arcadia Ego |
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04-20-2009
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#9 (permalink)
| | Account Disabled
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Originally Posted by thadjock i guess the revolutionary war isn't celebrated there quite the same way it is here  | Paid holidays and BBQ? | | |
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04-20-2009
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#10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thadjock u keep poking ur stick into this hornets nest don't u mitchy | how do you mean? I cant remember having commented or made a post on this before but i dont rule that out lol
just trying to understand you americans better thats all
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The phrase 'suck it up' seems to be IN right now.
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04-20-2009
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#11 (permalink)
| | Banned
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Originally Posted by thadjock no, just that it's the way we won our independence from u fuking brits and your kings opressive rule.
without a militia and individuals owning guns we never would have been able to kill enuff redcoats to send your limey asses packing. I think that whole ordeal was pretty fresh in the minds of the people who wrote the constitution & bill of rights.
i guess the revolutionary war isn't celebrated there quite the same way it is here  | You've kind of hit upon my point.....it was relevant then....but now?....Its at the point where last year a report came on the news about a highschool shooting and it was like 'oh...again?' and then one in Finland that had a wholly different response...it was a bigger ordeal.
I dont understand why the masses having the right to own a gun is a good thing
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The phrase 'suck it up' seems to be IN right now.
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04-20-2009
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#12 (permalink)
| | Account Disabled
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Originally Posted by njqt466 ]The radical right-wing conservatives have been stocking up on guns and bullets since November because they fear Pres. Obama will repeal the 2nd Amendment. I don't think he is stupid enough to do this as it would likely cause a civil war. | *sigh* I hate reading this, as Obama simply doesn't have the authority.
Plus, all amendments have to be ratified by a majority of the states in the union. Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchymo You've kind of hit upon my point.....it was relevant then....but now?....Its at the point where last year a report came on the news about a highschool shooting and it was like 'oh...again?' and then one in Finland that had a wholly different response...it was a bigger ordeal.
I dont understand why the masses having the right to own a gun is a good thing | It is a fundamental right in the U.S., it works for us in the U.S., in Finland, or wherever else, they can decide what works for their country.
More importantly, if there were no guns, people would still find a way to kill each other. Doesn't the UK have ridiculously high knife violence among youths? Take away knives, are forks next? Spoons?
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04-20-2009
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#13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mitchymo I dont understand why the masses having the right to own a gun is a good thing | maybe you should ask mexico how their gun policy is working out,
they ban all individual gun ownership, and yet drug lords have no problem getting guns to slaughter their competitors and policemen like cattle. their entire country is on the verge of a total societal breakdown.
| Et in Arcadia Ego |
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04-20-2009
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#14 (permalink)
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Whoa, whoa, whoa..... Any article in the Constitution can be amended and it happens not all that infrequently. There are 27 amendments, 16 adopted after 1791 and the last in 1992. We could, if we wanted, erase any of the original Bill of Rights (the first through tenth amendments).
The Bill of Rights is indeed the cornerstone of the American political system. Americans don't mind screwing with some of the more obscure articles, but anything that goes near the Bill of Rights causes immediate uproar. That doesn't mean it can't be changed, however.
To amend the constitution, two thirds of the entirety of Congress must pass the proposed amendment AND three quarters of the legislatures of the states must ratify the amendment.
This is how it's usually done but it is not the only way. The Constitution states that if two thirds of the states want a Constitutional convention to convene, they can ask Congress to do so. This method has never been used and it is not certain if Congress is compelled to act by this request or not.
The other way to amend the Constitution is to have three quarters of all states approve a change in the Constitution on their own without Congressional approval. Oddly enough, the state legislatures are not part of this process. The people of the states themselves, or the state governments sponsor, amendment conventions to present their resolutions which are then adopted by the states themselves. This method has been used only once and that was for the repeal of Prohibition.
Both of these last two methods demonstrate the sovereignty of the states as a joint entity outside of the federal government itself. This was done in case the federal government should become so corrupt or despotic that the states could essentially erase and recreate it as necessary. Remember that the people writing the Constitution had just come out of a revolution where there was no trust in any ultimate state authority.
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04-20-2009
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#15 (permalink)
| | Banned
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people are not knifed down on a regular basis and the victims are usually others that carry them....its not innocent peopl being killed en mass
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The phrase 'suck it up' seems to be IN right now.
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