Winners and losers in the sexual politics merrygoround.

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I wonder where you think we are with regard to sexual politics.

Is anyone getting a good deal?

I don't think men are. I think our culture pushes us down the get married, have kids work your life to pay for it, fuck up pay for it, don't fuck up get left pay for it, don't get married, still pay for it, don't get married, don't have kids, pay for it.

Do you really think it's a man's world? because from where I sit, it looks like we are just so many drones and worker/soldier ants.

I find this outlook, perplexing. Life isn't made up of all the things that happen to me. We each have our circumstance and I will get out of life as much as I decide. It isn't anyones fault that the vast majority of people choose whats easiest.

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$10.00 says you won't.

I'm not having a good man week, personally or professionally, be warned, this may not be as sensitive as it normally would.

I do think it is still a man's world because women are incredibly undervalued globally. But, in some societies, including western, I acknowledge there is a general feeling that women have an entitlement to male resources and/or to dominate the household/relationship/children - without much more than tacit consent from the man, while making it almost taboo for him to complain.

However, I think men can be equally demanding and commanding in a relationship, making a woman feel like she has to excel as wife/mate/girlfriend, mom, maid, chef, nurse, co-bread winner - all while looking good and being a whore in the bedroom - because that's the understanding.

So, while I feel for men and their seeming loss of autonomy, purpose, and personal power, I do not believe women, as a whole, have it much better with the issues we face. In my opinion, the whole social - sexual contract needs to be redefined to create more equality between the sexes. Until that happens, I think too many of us will continue to see the other sex as oppressors, which does not make for a healthy society.

On a persona level, I respect men and treat/have treated my partner(s ) with the respect they deserve as men. I understand that need, and it does not make me feel less of an independent woman/feminist to give them that regard and equality.

Than I guess I should think like you. Frankly I see that outlook as nothing more than posturing for the opportunity to not try as hard as one could. Western society seems to be turning tinto a society where everything becomes relative to how a person feels at any given moment.

You know what, struggling is necessary. I don't do anyone, least of all me any favors by searching for someone to blame. Sometimes I enjoy trials. I know the possibilities opened on the other side. Acknowleding and embracing this has made me much stronger than many others because I don't simply choose the route thats easiest hindering my life later on by limiting my options.

Everybody wins. The civilized world is more egalitarian and just than it ever has been, particularly in reference to gender relations.

Women still get paid less of course, among other problems, and men have their own particular burdens to bear. Still, I think things are pretty peachy.

But then I'm young and lucky, so probably naive. (not sarcasm)

in the uk...

an estimated 80+% of rapes go unreported,
and only 6% of those reported end in conviction.
every three days a woman is murdered by a partner or ex partner.

and as for working to support the kids?
working women earn 23% less than working men.

love is a lie

Those stats are pretty close to ours here in the US. Oh yes, we men have it hard. Frankly I think we're our own worst enemy. Women aren't any friends to themselves anymore either I think.

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I agree with this. It is taboo to complain, getting on with it is what makes you a real man. But my point is that you get sucked into these expectations and once you do, you can be fucked by the system, which is not man friendly in terms of it's expectations and demands. I am not being in the least comparative, I am just saying that that is how it is.

An estimated 99% of rapes by women are not reported.
Official estimates are that at least 10% of allegations of rape are made on malicious grounds. Unofficial estimates are much higher.
The non reporting of rape is at a very similar rate to other crimes except where an insurance claim is to be made.
Last year the police surveyed allegations of date rape and drink spiking and found that less than 10% of the victims had less than four times the driving alcohol limit and no trace of drugs used for spiking.
Reports by Lady Scotland and others have shown that domestic abuse is 50/50 and a recent survey on the under 25's showed that violence is also now 50/50. Report this abuse as a man and the police will arrive and arrest you. This is official police policy. Also try to be taken seriously as a male victim of domestic abuse and violence.
Women are known to make false allegations of domestic abuse as revenge on ex partners and to protect their free housing and child benefits which they would otherwise lose because of personal drug and alcohol problems at the time of a break up. I can not quote stats on this but it is very high amongst those who make official complaints. I was told this by a close female friend who works in this field.
Many women workers are part time, and whilst their hourly rate is exactly the same as men, they do not pick up overtime and bonuses which skews the statistics on equal pay.

I say all this, not because I do not genuinely sympathise with victims of crime and discrimination, but because it is another example where we focus on issues without being held to account for the politicisation of statistics.

Regardless of which gender you are there are problems to be faced, expectations to be lived up to (or not) and so on.

You are looking at this from only one side. I know where you are coming from vis a vis the 'man up to things' expectations and I understand your counter arguments to dolfette there. But look at it a different way for a minute. A woman is expected to attract a mate (but not too many - got to get it right in the first few, wouldn't want to be a slut, now), get married (fairly quickly, "don't get left on the shelf!"), have children (fairly quickly, "isn't your biological clock ticking yet, dear?"), make a home, maintain that home, not loose that man to a more attractive and/or younger woman, be the main emotional support for her partner and children and care for other relatives physically and emotionally as the need arises, all while having a career and maintaining her looks and figure - in an environment where women do still generally earn less than men for the same work. If she fucks up and the man leaves she still gets all the workload of the family, if the man fucks up and leaves she still gets all the workload of the family, if the man fucks up and she kicks him out she still gets all the workload of the family and she's a 'bitch', if she fucks up and she leaves she is a fucking pariah. If she decides to try doing the family thing and let the career go, for a while or forever, she's a freeloading bitch - whether the relationship stays together or not. If she decides to do the career thing and leave the family thing to one side, for a while or forever, she's failing as a woman in the eyes of many. If she tries to be both carer and provider she often will get stretched so thin that she does both badly and is seen as a failure.

Men have it tough, women have it tough = people have it tough.

But then - life is beautiful, and love is a gift, and if a person can look up from the fucking gutter and away from the bullshit for five minutes he or she can see that and learn to rejoice in whatever he or she has. No one can meet all the expectations - everybody fails at something or other in the eyes of someone or other. So what - it is part of the human condition. I'd rather be lying in the gutter staring at the stars than up on a pedestal looking down into the mud.

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^^^I can give that an "Amen".

The best a man can get.

(818):His whole family saw that I had cum in my hair once they turned on the blacklight at the bowling alley. You should have seen his mother's face.
TFLN

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In my OP I asked whether anyone is getting a good deal. I am only going to presume to talk from a male perspective, so I did. I don't see it as comparative, but my guess was that it would be and that men questioning their deal wouldn't be given much time.

You know me ManB, so I don't have to attempt to justify my egalitarian credentials, but I do wonder whether men's issues are given the attention that women's are. This doesn't diminish women's issues, it is simply a matter of attention, like prostate and breast cancer.

If we're all getting a bad deal then it still isn't sexist.

You're talking about winners and losers and sexual politics and then exemplifying only one half - I think my response fits the thread.

Now that that is said and we agree what do you want to talk about? If we are all getting short-shrift what's the sexual politics angle? Are you saying there is no longer an imbalance of power? Are you sure about that? I'm not - I think we swing too far one way and over compensate by swinging back too far the other while all putting ourselves under too much pressure. But overall I do believe that a man has slightly more scope for doing stuff just for himself. Maybe that is compensated for by assuming the women somehow owns the family - owns the communal stuff - so it is OK for the man to have the 'man cave', to have the time consuming golf habit that takes him away from the home or whatever. But not all women want to own the communal, they feel like being put in charge of it is a responsibility, not reward. And some men take it to the extreme and don't have the communal - they stay alone. Men are judged far less harshly for that than women are.

But all in all, these things really can only be looked at on a case by case basis.

Reminds me of my favourite Trainspotting quote: "One thousand years from now there'll be no guys and no girls, just wankers. Sounds great to me."

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I will only make statements of opinion about my own sex. I can't see that men's lot has improved any. In fact I think that it is relatively worse and I will give an example later.

I will ask whether women will acknowledge that they have seen improvements over their mother's generations. What of the Pill? the minimum wage? improvement is home technology and food choice (I am talking about the western world), easier divorce, social help for single mothers, better education and access to the highest levels of education. A lot of these things were hard fought for in the last fifty years.

My other point is that by contrast men's issues are lost. I googled "men's issues" and "women's issues", 532,000 results compared to 1,850,000.

I am not saying that there are not issues for women, I am saying that they overshadow men's considerably.

The Domestic Violence issue is a case in point. Humour me and look at this www.mensaid.com - domestic abuse

here is an abstract

Abstract


So how come it is still so easy to think that DV is what men do? Why is the treatment based around shaming men, with no "treatment" for women? Certain interest groups hijack issues and make them their own. So not always a case by case issue.

A thousand years you say Man B. I doubt we'll have to wait that long.

obviously my lot has improved.
but it's still a long way from the ovariannervana that a few guys think it is.

like the pill...
double edged sword if ever there was one.
yay at having control over fertility.
boo at the onus, in ltr, being on the woman to deal with it.
yes, condoms are a pain...but the pill kills my sex drive, changes my moods and ability to cope, makes me put on weight AND increases the risk of dvt, cancer, etc.

yes, i'm lucky not to be sold by my father to my husband or denied the right to vote.
but the average man now has far more rights & support too.
we all have lots to whine about and lots we should be bloody happy about.

love is a lie