Death Panels are inevitable in a public option

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They already have these panels at many major hospitals. I know someone on one of these panels. They have the legal right to not treat you. I believe they give you 3 months or some period of time to find a hospital that will take you. If you can't find a willing hospital, then adios.

Qi/

I would say that Quercusone has about the same dimensions as Mandingo (but perhaps a bit thicker)...
Calboner

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ur 100% right.

i can't believe obama is selling this as a triumphant win for him.

the dems have conceded to EVERY demand of the republicans, just to pass SOMETHING.

Et in Arcadia Ego

At least the death panel wouldn't consist of one barely high school educated telephone operator and her immenently medically proficient supervisor at the health insurance call center ready to deny you coverage.

I don't see how a "death panel" (oy) is any worse than how it is now.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subsidizing European healthcare? I live in Spain and pay taxes for healthcare, so I don't think that THAT is happening...

And yes, it's universal healthcare and it's not that expensive... The US could deal with it the same as other countries in the world do

I think the strategy they're going for is to pass something now and amend it later. Killing the bill and starting over may cause more harm than good. From a political standpoint, if the bill is not passed the opposition will use this as a catalyst in 2010 elections to say that Obama is a "do nothing" President (even though we knew their game plan was to be obstructionists from the very beginning). That could mean the loss of the majority, which would make things even more difficult to deal with in Congress for the administration.

As much as we want to think people can see through the rhetoric, time and time again it's proven that they cannot. Health Care has become such a big deal (thanks to the overhype it has received from both ends), that it's even overshadowed things like the Economy and the War. The current administration could catch Al Qaeda and help bring the unemployment rate down to 1% right now and people would not even care. Personally, I would rather see the Senate push something through and have it fail. We already know what message is going to be spread by the opposition if Health Care Reform doesn't go through, but at least at that point we could focus on all of the people who voted "no" (Democrat or Republican) and hold them accountable for its failure. At the same time, nobody could say with any level of honesty that the current administration didn't at least try to work with everyone (including their adversaries).

Seriously... fuck it all.

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exactly,

this bill has been castrated to be nothing more than campaign strategy.

we need a different system of government , one that isn't terminally gridlocked.

he might give himself a B+ but i give him a D-

he's proving his detractors right, he's more show than go.

Et in Arcadia Ego

You're absolutely right... and it's a shame.

Some points need clearing up. The rich, well connected, politicians (and in one instance I know of the mother of the mistress of a Chief Constable) and sometimes the articulate well educated ae not subject to these strictures. Why keep some 80 year state pensioner alive after 50 years of hard, dirty, low paid work, when some fat arsed tart needs that money to have surgery for a gastric band. Blair and Thatcher and their American masters decree we return to the days of the poor house laws. You don't give a shit about the sick and poor, you will when they cart your parents off to the new model workhouse infirmiary.

Which is precisely why they may need to just push the bill. The worse that could happen is that it passes, does little to change the status quo and then is amended over time... or they push for it, only for it to fail and then we can focus on those who declined it. But to start over would feed into the "more show than go" rhetoric because on the surface it would look like stalling... which is exactly what the opposition wanted to do in the first place.

As for grading him, I'm not basing his entire performance on one year's worth of work, nor on the passing of one bill regardless of how big it is. I didn't do this with any president before him, including Bush, so it would make no sense for me to start doing this now. I also know that it takes a hell of a lot more than just a year to do anything, even with a majority in the House & Senate. But I'm sure people will read this and assume that I'm a "blind Obama lover", forgetting that they also blamed me for thinking Obama had a magic wand that would fix everything during the election. And ironically, look at the people who are acting as if he was supposed to have one from the beginning? But I digress...

If one thing infuriates me about the current administration is their desperate need to work with "everyone". They're essentially acting like a DJ who tries to play music that everyone likes, knowing that some people will never be satisfied regardless of what he does. It doesn't take long to figure out who actually wants to work with you and who doesn't. They need to be more adamant to push things forward and take down names in the process if they get in the way. Bipartisanship is a nice idea, but when the opposition constantly votes no (with the exception of one or two at best) then you move on. At least then it could be said that a chance was given and they chose not to take it.

Seriously... fuck it all.

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obama's report card:

the number of missteps on healthcare alone earns him a D-

then throw in the part where he basically just doubles down on bush's plan in afghanistan, giving the military what they want ( i mean really... we've been in afghanistan for 8 yrs gettin our ass kicked by a barefoot, rag tag militia using improvised everything, and all its gonna take fix that is dropping in another 30k marines and soldiers?)

i just wish for once McCrystal or Patreus would stand up and say:

"we have no fucking clue how to fight this this kind of war, we havent' figured it out in 8 yrs and we could be slogging it out for the next 20 years with ZERO improvement there"

but because his testicles won't let him say that, we're going to keep doing what we're doing till congress cuts off funding, or the boots on the ground figure out we don't have a plan, and tell their CO to go fuk himself the next time he orders up another raid.

i voted for obama and had high hopes he'd be transformational, but even if he gets this watered down healthcare bill passed, it won't matter in 2010 if there's still >10% unemployment. admittedly Pelosi and Reid are a huge part of the problem but it's obama's ballgame and he needs to start bringin it.

Et in Arcadia Ego

I can't think of anything to add to this list so I will just repeat it.

Oh no, wait. He hasn't repealed Don't Ask Don't Tell and he encouraged Maine voters to go the polls without telling them to vote against the Gay Marriage Ban.

Well, this is becoming yet another one of those "Obama sucks" threads.
Who would have guessed we would of had this many impatient people in America? Oh wait... he was supposed to do EVERYTHING in the first year and come through with every campaign promise in 365 days or less.

And honestly, if you think Obama is somehow against gays because he didn't repeal DADT or took some kind of stance that supported the Gay Marriage Ban, consider the alternatives. You think the letters DADT would have ever been mentioned if McCain/Palin were in office? You think we would of had ANY states voting on lifting or repealing Gay Marriage? America still can't even get over Adam Lambert's performance on the VMAs. What makes you think we're going to see Gay Marriage accepted everywhere in a year's time?

But I guess, I'm just making excuses for the man and not thinking rationally. After all, a President is in office for 4 years. Eight if he's lucky. And what happens in the first year is the only one that matters, right? Jeez...

Seriously... fuck it all.

i make excuses for him all the time. In fact, there is a part of my brain that is constantly spinning excuses for him but the fact is, he has disappointed on a lot of fronts. Not entirely, and he certainly is better than the alternative from the other side of the isle. But he ran as being actually good, not merely better than crap. As far as Obama being "against gays" is concerned, no, he's not against us. But he's not quite for us. He likes to include us in his speeches but he makes every effort to distance himself when he can.

LPSG truly is a representative microcosm of our society.

Ask around, increasing numbers of people are expressing the sentiment that "Obama Sucks."