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Code of Gentleman Chivalry

Naughty, Thanks for your wonderful response. You covered the subect well. I will add some comments. I do believe that when each of us meet someone that is handicapped, is carry a load of materials

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Old 12-30-2004   #16 (permalink)
Freddie53 is offline


Naughty,

Thanks for your wonderful response. You covered the subect well. I will add some comments.

I do believe that when each of us meet someone that is handicapped, is carry a load of materials and such, we should be gracious and help with opening the door and such. The gender here doesn't matter. It is a matter of being gracious around other people.

I also believe that in today's world, it is not the man, but the host that should follow rules of chivelry. Guests should be treated as guests. Gender doesn't apply here. Health does. Obviously if the host is invalid or in poor health that is different.

The rules for the elderly are very fluid. Some eighty year olds are still running two miles a day, playing 9 holes of golf, floating rivers and other physical activities. Some people at 65 are infirmed enough that they are feeble.

In general with a small group of people, the first able bodied person to the door opens it and holds it open for the group if the door has a automatic closure feature.

There is nothing wrong with hellos, thank yous and such even with strangers provided it is kept at just that unless the other person responds. Don't continue conversations and acts of graciousness to a person who wants to be left alone or does not indicate that they wish to accept your graciousness.

I will add that this is the first step in meeting people you want to meet as well. If they don't reciprocate then maybe you can meet them another time. If they are complete strangers, leave them alone. If they wanted to meet you, they would have reciporcated with some acts of graciousness in return.

In the modern world chivelry is not about male and female. It is about graciousness when you are just out and about and meeting people and being a good host and being a good guest in social and business functions.

I think our young people need to learn it. Children and teenagers should show proper respect to adults who are in leadership roles. Adults in leadership roles should set good examples of behavior for young people as well. But I don't think that children and teenagers should be required to continue showing graciousness and respect to an adult who is obviously being a jackass continuously. Respect for the position the adult holds yes. Respect for the adult jackass no.

Children and teenagers need to learn how to graciously say no to adults that are suspicious as well. If children were taught that as well, much child abuse, teen abuse and later adult abuse would be prevented at the earliest point of prevention. Showing graciousness at that point gives time for the child, teen or adult to graciously move away to a place of less potential danger and not alert the adult who appears suspicious to the potential victim what the true feelings inside are. Once an adult abuser realizes that the other person has his suspisions, the situation is awkward at best and possibly already dangerous. And if the adult is really a great person with no evil intentions then awkwardness is really established that wasn't necessary. In public it is difficult for an abuser to lure a potential victim away from the crowd if the potential victim can graciously say no while moving at the same time closer to friends or trusted adults that are around.

I am not talking here about when an abuser has already started advances toward the victim. At that point, the potential victim needs to get the hell out of dodge as fast as possible if there is an exit anywhere, but always toward a large crowd not toward an empty place of any kind where the victim would be helpless if physically weaker than the potential abuser.

Some might think what I added here is off topic of chivilry. I don't think so. I have watched people for years. Those who were taught how to act in public in a gracious way and no how to graciously enter and exit at all times, have far fewer episodes of being a victim than those who aren't taught that. That gives a major reason for teaching children an updated form of chivilry.

And it really helps people fend off people who want to hit on them. My mother taught me that. I saw her graciously many times put at length men who had made a come on to her. She never acknowledged the come on but graciously exited the situatiion and no awkwardness was there and there wasn't a second attempt by the man then or later.

I know some may say isn't talking about abuse off thread topic. I don't think so. Not if it is a valid way to fend off people who are entering your space uninvited. It gives a way to "shut the door" without fanfare and awkwardness. It gives a reason to teach the modern form of chivilry to our children.

I hope this other reason for some form of modern chivilry resonates with people here and things that I left out or need clarification are added.

And if you don't like the word chivilry fine. Give us another name to use in this 21st century world.

We need a woman's perspective on using graciousness or chivilry to entering and exiting situations, especially those that involve potential abuse whether it be verbal, physical, or sexual abuse. There may be other very appropriate ways that would apply to every one that could be shared.

Sure I know that the lineman for the pro football team has options that some of us weaker folks don't have. Deliberately setting up a physical confrontation would be disastrous in my case. I can't run and I am not physically able to get into a wrestling match with anyone much less a big strong physical person of either gender.

And I am editing this to add this extra comment. The age, gender, physical condition, and personality all do make a difference in the effectiveness of greeting people, handle opening door situations and particularly potential abuse situations.

Also the last item personality is a major factor. Some ways of handling things by one type of personality simply seems out of place for another type of personality. You have to consider your own personality and how you deal with things in deciding how to carry yourself in public in any situation whether it be a social, political. business, recreation or sadly troublesome situation that could lead to harm to your person.
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Old 12-30-2004   #17 (permalink)
naughty is offline


Freddie53 and Longbaugh,

First and foremost, thank you. I thought that your comments were also quite timely and subtle in your target. I think the thread is fast moving from Micro (chivalry) to macro ( global"home training") here.
In terms of the internet, I believe that we are victims of the technology growing faster than the individual user's knowledge of the ever evolving ettiquette that accompanies it. Because it can be done anonymously, individuals with challenged social skills are better able to communicate. However, there are certain baseline rules that should be followed. I think even if one doesnt know the 'Rules of the road" so to speak, he or she should use the "Golden Rule" as a guideline in terms of when enough may be enough. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If it is something you would not do in normal course of daily real time life think twice about it online. I too have been having growing pains acclimating myself to the perceived freedom that the internet provides. Yet, this being a relatively new form of communication, we do not yet know what may come back to haunt any of us. Discretion,graciousness, and compassion are never out of style. Just as a car or its horn are not weapons to express bile or annoyance the net is a privilege not to be similarly abused.

Naughty
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Old 12-30-2004   #18 (permalink)
Imported is offline


skeelicious08: "
I'm tired of holding the door open for some "lady," and have her just breeze through without a quick "thank you" or "thanks" as though she were the queen of the universe."

I've never understood that. I ALWAYS say thank you because its always so pleasant to have a gentleman hold the door for me. Yet I have friends who never say thank you when its done for them.
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Old 12-30-2004   #19 (permalink)
naughty is offline


Skeeliscious,

That only shows that they have no home training. But you know what to do.

Naughty
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Old 12-30-2004   #20 (permalink)
madame_zora is offline


Freddie, that was truly beautiful, and I agree completely that chivalry is not just for men. Perhaps we need an updated word to better suit our times, but we all get the picture. Be kind to each other, and the most able bodied or "hands free" should get the door. Don't be insulting to the elderly who are in great shape, but be helpful to those it would help. Offer your seat on the bus to a pregnant woman, but it is no longer necessary to do it for any woman, unless you're so inclined. "Please" and "thank you" are always in style, and always will be, use them generously (as well as "pardon" and "May I").

As for the subject of appropriateness and warding off unwelcome attention, yes manners go quite a long way, but not in every situation. In public, yes- it gives one the pause needed to mentally regroup and asses one's next move, preferably to join a group or any other nearby person. Many "creeps" do try to take advantage of someone's potential social discomfort, so backing up and getting away is always the best bet. There are some occasions. however, where the creep in question does not respond to "No thanks, I'd best be on my way now", and in those instances I feel that being loud and even rude are a better approach. I someone is trying to back me into a corner, either socially or in actuality, me drawing attention to myself eliminates the curtain of privacy he believes he is enjoying. I think this is a very important lesson to teach our youth, to whom very little of social grace is being taught. Our society is in a process of upheaval in regards to gender roles and "who is supposed to do what", so some kind words from those of us who are secure enough in ourselves to share these ideas may very well help arm our youth with the necessary tools to get through social situations, both good and bad. Yes, a basic ability to assess a situation and react accordingly is necessary, but don't be too embarassed to use your voice either to thank, to bless, to compliment, or even to chastise if need be.

The internet has spawned the need for a whole new set of do's and don'ts. Naughty, I think you are wise to have inferrred the subtleties of Freddie's post. Most people feel a greater freedom in the anonymity we enjoy, but there are a select few who use this to the disadvantage of others. Shame on them. Once again, I think it will be no surprise that I think it's best to draw it out in public. I am not a mushroom, I don't like being kept in the dark and fed bullshit! Exposure is a powerful things, it lets you choose your course of action rather than having someone else making your decisions for you. By the way, there is even proper ettiquette for chatting, emailing, etc. Be polite until the barriers of discomfort are slowly removed! No one wants to get an email or pm about something very graphic or personal until they have established clear communication with you previously. "No" still means "no", even if the person talks to others but doesn't want to talk to you. If a woman (or man) has sex with someone that doesn't mean she owes sex to you, so likewise with conversation. Some personalities mesh better than others, accept a "no" graciously. Here's a personal favorite- if you're chatting online and the person you're talking to says they have to go- LET THEM!! Don't say "goodby" 4,953 times for the next two hours, just say goodby and leave them alone! Don't beg them to stay online with you or use guilt to manipulate them. I guarantee they will dread talking to you the next time because whatever they were going to do in real life may have been impacted by your selfishness, and they won't be eager to repeat that.

As for this particular thread, I was hit up on chat by a stranger last night. Usually I ignore these things, but it was late so I accepted it. Turned out the person said "I'm the asshole you plunked"- I must assume it's our good friend LeoTaylor who started this thread. How appropriate for someone who has had no respect for my boundaries to post a thread about manners! By the way, Leo, since I can't seem to stop you from stalking me every way you can, I'm going to tell everyone I can every time you contact me so everyone will know what a pathetic loser you are. Now run along and get some attention from someone who WANTS to spend time with you. If you weren't so creepy, it might be possible, but it's NOT ME!!



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Old 12-30-2004   #21 (permalink)
Dr. Bubbles is offline


This is an interesting thread and has been well covered. Being from the south I tend to expect some things to still occur as they should, i.e., holding doors and such. In the same token, it is ladylike to appreciate and acknowledge the gentleman who is being so gracious and kind. I think if we go back to common decencies and again, RELEARN simply mannerism that our society would not be as taunting as it appears.

Gentlemen, I thank you...

Ladies, I thank you, too. Yes, we coming of age aren't we? :)
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Old 12-30-2004   #22 (permalink)
naughty is offline


BBLumbee,

I just realizes something from your post. Perhaps some of my own sensibilties come from having been raised by older southern parents. I too appreciate these amenities when they are extended, but I also know that I do have to ability to open my own doors literally and figuratively.

Naughty
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Old 12-30-2004   #23 (permalink)
Dr. Bubbles is offline


Hi Naughty,

Girl, where you been? Or where have I been? lol

I agree that we have the abilities to open and close doors as well. Maybe I am not as liberal as some women in their thought process... I tend to be more conservative (mind you though, I can speak my point and can fend for myself!). I was raised very conservatively -- the point where men and women have their seperate places and accept the things they are "suppose" to do.

I am suppose to be femine. I am suppose to be submissive. There are certain things that I am suppose to do in work, place or anywhere else. I can accept those and appreciate them. In the same aspect, men are likewise "suppose" to accept their role and perform as such.

Old fashion? Yeah! Do I like it? Yeah.

If a guy wants me, then he has to treat me like I am deserving and his princess. Trust me, in the end, he will be heavily rewarded. As for other gentlemen and their kindness, I do so appreciation and gratitude. Gosh, I even hold doors open for them, like you and Zora, if their hands are full. Who knows, I probably flirt with them, too (gives me a chance to see their butt). :D
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Old 12-30-2004   #24 (permalink)
naughty is offline


Miss BB,

Now , you know I didn't raise you to be actin' like no fiel han'. You know dem genlemens is sposed to do what deh's sposed to do. I dont want tuh heah nobody telling me they done see'd you peepin' at no men's hind parts! IT aint fittin', it jes aint fittin' ! Laws! Missa BB, yo sho is bad! LOL!

Naughty Mammy

P.S. This is not meant to be a derogatory post. For those who have experienced the "Mammy" lectures before, she's back. Be afraid ,be very afraid !
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Old 12-30-2004   #25 (permalink)
Dr. Bubbles is offline


Hilarious! And I love mammy....

Speaking of... what is done behind closed doors is behind closed doors... enuff said. lol

Quote:
Originally posted by naughty@Dec 30 2004, 09:02 PM
Miss BB,

Now , you know I didn't raise you to be actin' like no fiel han'. You know dem genlemens is sposed to do what deh's sposed to do. I dont want tuh heah nobody telling me they done see'd you peepin' at no men's hind parts! IT aint fittin', it jes aint fittin' ! Laws! Missa BB, yo sho is bad! LOL!

Naughty Mammy

P.S. This is not meant to be a derogatory post. For those who have experienced the "Mammy" lectures before, she's back. Be afraid ,be very afraid !
Dr. Bubbles is offline  
Old 12-30-2004   #26 (permalink)
big_peter is offline


Just one more exception - or rule- whatever way you look at it.

I live not far from NYC, and hold the door when I'm a step or 2 ahead of someone else.
But in a city, there are those who see an open door and run to it (nevermind the perfectly good one 2 feet to the side), and I get the feeling that I'm being considered the Doorman.

Doorman I'm not(!), and now I have the problem of choosing which of these lazy ingrates will I drop the door for. And when I do, I just don't care what they think. I held the door for one (or a few with that one), not all.

The after-effect is (in their thinking): He (meaning me) isn't courteous (but I am!).

If you have the perception that New Yoork (or other large cities) is full of impolite people... it works both ways. Last week I was at the Tree in Rock Center, saw a couple taking photos. My companion offered to take one of the couple... they were profusely thankful, saying nobody would offer... (obviously wrong!) and that it's so rare (Also wrong, I did same thing 2 years earlier, same location and backdrop). In truth, it's a bit like wildlife photos - but reversed - instead of waiting patiently for the scene, in NYC, you'd wait for the photographer. It's really just a matter of time (or timing).

Truly, we should all slow down a bit!
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Old 12-31-2004   #27 (permalink)
lapdog2001 is offline


I believe in common courtesy to everyone. If I approach a door at the same time as a woman, I will open and hold it to let her go first. If I'm through the door first, I'll hold it open behind me for whoever is close by. Sometimes people hold the door when you're 10 feet away and I think that is a bit much. Do I hold the chair for a woman, usually not, as most have no idea what you are doing! I have helped women with their coats, and other simple, polite things like that.

When I took the overcrowded subway to work, it was a rare treat to actually get a seat. The Boston subway cars have been rebuilt many times over, each time they take away more seats to allow more standing room. I will gladly give up my seat for an elderly person, pregnant woman, or anyone who needs it more than me, but the days of giving up a seat for a woman, just because she is a woman, are long gone. Too many don't give up their seats for anyone, and that is just rude.

We in the north and the east (in my case northeast) have reputations for being rude compared to other areas of the country, but I see common courtesy every day around here. One explanantion I read was the the east was so densely populated, the the tipping of hats, and greeting those who you pass by was just plain impractable! I remember a scene in a Crocadile Dundee movie where is is walking down a crowded NYC sidewalk saying G'Day and tipping his hat continuously!

LapDog :P

LapDog
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Old 12-31-2004   #28 (permalink)
Imported is offline


leotaylor: THANKS YOU GUYS-I'M GLAD YOUR ALL GENTLEMEN.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Anything else said here about well,you know I will not respond to it.Everyone here has his or her opinion.Some good-a few stupid and ignorant.I will be a gentleman and ignor the ignorant ones
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Old 12-31-2004   #29 (permalink)
Imported is offline


leotaylor:
Quote:
Originally posted by skeelicious08@Dec 30 2004, 05:14 PM
"
I'm tired of holding the door open for some "lady," and have her just breeze through without a quick "thank you" or "thanks" as though she were the queen of the universe."

I've never understood that. I ALWAYS say thank you because its always so pleasant to have a gentleman hold the door for me. Yet I have friends who never say thank you when its done for them.
great
Imported is offline  
Old 12-31-2004   #30 (permalink)
Imported is offline


leotaylor:
Quote:
Originally posted by lapdog2001@Dec 31 2004, 06:51 AM
I believe in common courtesy to everyone. If I approach a door at the same time as a woman, I will open and hold it to let her go first. If I'm through the door first, I'll hold it open behind me for whoever is close by. Sometimes people hold the door when you're 10 feet away and I think that is a bit much. Do I hold the chair for a woman, usually not, as most have no idea what you are doing! I have helped women with their coats, and other simple, polite things like that.

When I took the overcrowded subway to work, it was a rare treat to actually get a seat. The Boston subway cars have been rebuilt many times over, each time they take away more seats to allow more standing room. I will gladly give up my seat for an elderly person, pregnant woman, or anyone who needs it more than me, but the days of giving up a seat for a woman, just because she is a woman, are long gone. Too many don't give up their seats for anyone, and that is just rude.

We in the north and the east (in my case northeast) have reputations for being rude compared to other areas of the country, but I see common courtesy every day around here. One explanantion I read was the the east was so densely populated, the the tipping of hats, and greeting those who you pass by was just plain impractable! I remember a scene in a Crocadile Dundee movie where is is walking down a crowded NYC sidewalk saying G'Day and tipping his hat continuously!

LapDog :P
me too
Imported is offline  

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