Falklands (Americans View)

The Falkland Islands are a chain of British Islands in the South Atlantic Ocean, as I'm sure you intelligent well endowed folks know ;)

Once again they're in the News because Brazil has sided with Argentina along with most South American nations in saying that the Islands should be Argentinian.

But, it's just crazy.

The whole point of 'Self-Determination' according to the UN is that the people who live in a place should decide what country they are part of. The Falklanders are 100% British. Before the British arrived the islands were un inhabited.
Argentina has NO claim to them what so ever, except that the next nearest land is Argentina. By that logic Alaska should be given to Canada, regardless of what the Alaskans themselves want.

It shocked us in the War that America refused to help us defend ourselves when Argentina invaded. And the Falklanders and the British really feel alone on this issue that the whole world is un fairly ganging up on us.

Just thought I'd bring some attention to the issue and would appreciate some feed back.

Totally agree.

The USA and the UK should forever remain best of allies and Argentina's claim is baseless outside of mileage.

The bad news is the world is going to be coming down on the the UK and all things European and the US will be in no position to help as our own problems will be soon engulfing us in civil war.

I thought Lady Thatcher settled this. Other than scoring some meaningless diplomatic points, there isn't much Brazil or Argentina can do about it. I mean, the British govt threatened that Buenos Aires would be Nuked over this issue in the 80's. Is any archipelago really worth that?

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Kinda like the british dumping colonist into Ireland and having the colonies say "we want to be owned by britain" and then "britain is there because they want us to be!"

Here's one for you - The Chinese in San Fransisco suddenly all say that they want San Fransisco to be owned by China...does this mean we give San Fransisco to China? They're the majority assume.

oh yeah...and 3,000 people in the Falklands should definately decide the economic fate of 40 million in Argentina

Sarah Palin can see the Falklands if she goes to the end of her driveway and looks south.

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She can even see into the future if the wind's in the right direction.

Exactly how do a couple thousand sheep farmers three hundred miles out to sea from Argentina decide its economic fate? Other than to fulfill stupid nationalistic pride, there is no reason for Argentina to claim the islands. The colonels came up with the idea to distract people from the fact that they bankrupted the country (again) in the 80's.

It's true they may have some oil there but the Argentinians withdrew from the agreement that would have let them share in exploiting it several years ago, so fuck em. Argentina wants to make the islands the Alsace-Lorraine of the Atlantic, but the simple fact is that they aren't. If the British want to poke a stick in the eye of Buenos Aires, more power to them says this American.

The Brits settled them (without killing or displacing anybody), built them up, and even held several plebiscites to see if the inhabitants wouldn't really rather be citizens of Argentina, which were rejected soundly each time. They defended the islands and their people with blood and treasure against a despotic, hostile military government, and now are profitably exploiting their resources. What more do they need to demonstrate their rightful ownership?

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The US left the UK hanging in 1982, as a result of our suffering from bad foreign policies going back to the final evacuation of Vietnam, the fiasco's in Nicaragua and Iran in the late 70's.

Historically from what I read, the island was also settled at some point by the French, British and Spanish. The Argentinians sent an American privateer to lay claims to it in on behalf of a businessman. The Brits were the only ones to actively maintain a presence. Everyone should keep in mind also that the Falklands, just like many other colonies came into existence in order to support the Royal Navy. Post Waterloo, the more or less 100 years between 1815 and 1914 the RN kept the oceans fairly safe and I do not believe anyone cared one way or the other over the Falklands, as long as commerce was uninterrupted by piracy. I am sure that after Argentine independence, there was probably some comfort in knowing the worlds policemen at that time was right off your shore. I think the Argentine claim is dubious at best IMHO.

I believe the analogy of Alaska and Canada is correct, while the logic with regards to the Chinese in San Francisco is faulty at best.

For the record I am American born and bred, but I am highly biased in favor towards the country that always comes running to the aid of the US when our nuts are on the line (at least since the mid-late 1800's). If Argentina gets silly again; the US should at least backstop the UK with a Carrier Battle Group.

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Spot on; ditto; fuck em and feed em fish.

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Why the fuck should the US be obligated to defend a British claim to islands that hold no real strategic value to either the UK or the US?

I'm not a size queen- but I do like their boyfriends

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Yeah, the US Civil War is going to come when the blue states start refusing to further subsidize the red states, and then places like Alabama and Mississippi start going bankrupt

I'm not a size queen- but I do like their boyfriends

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The US already does to some degree, in various locations. Primarily with regards to rights of passage, freedom of movement, etc. The fact of the matter is, the Argentinians could really give two shits for the Falklands; however there are probably, fishing rights, drilling rights, etc, that they would like to lease to some one else or to the highest bidder.

Strategic value of land or turf is always subject to change. Pop a 5,000 foot runway or a 34' deep warm water port with channels on any shit-hole and the whole dynamic changes.

The USA shouldn't feel obligated to defend the British and their mostly symbolic claim to the Malvinas. (You can easily tell whose side I'm on.) With the exception of possibly Italianbro, I have a better on-hands knowledge of Argentina and how it has been raped and pillaged by other European countries as well as its own leaders than any other LPSG-er, unless there is someone here from Argentina.

The majority of US citizens believe what they are told to believe. The fact that the majority of Argentine citizens did not want a war with the UK over the Malvinas is glossed over. It was a failed effort on the part of the dictatorial military junta to gain popularity and remain in power. Junta-directed military personnel had been breaking into to the homes/apartments of opposition Argentine citizens for almost 20 years -- usually during the middle of the night -- only to be "disappeared" and never to be heard of again. It was a nasty period of this country's history and the military juntas were supported by both the UK and the USA because "they weren't communist regimes." Sound familiar?

One thing I really admire about the current situation of Argentina is ex President Nestor Kirchner intentionally defaulted on IMF loans that Argentina did not need, but previous administrations and the last juntas had negotiated. After Argentina began to recover from the total collapse of its economy in 2001 it once again began to make payments on those IMF loans, but it's doubtful Argentina will ever pay back the to total interest the IMF was hoping to recoup. There are more important things Argentina's leaders need to worry about these days such as make sure Argentines have enough food, potable water, roads, a patched up infrastructure and the continuation of keeping the restoration of democracy alive. Last year Argenina celebrated its 25th anniversary of it's restored democracy. And Nestor Kirchner, both hated and loved by the pedestrian Argentine, did something no other previous president did in the 18 years before he became president. He sought out and prosecuted as many ex military leaders responsible for the tens of thousands murdered Argentine citizens.

As for the Malvinas, the UK was hoping there was lots and lots of oil within the UN-recognized waters that belong to the islands. However, the oil that BP and other UK-allied oil companies have hoped to suck up has thus proven to be of such poor quality that it currently isn't worth pursuing pumping it. However, they are still trying. And all of the wells are deep-sea operations 4 and 5 miles below the surface of the Atlantic.

On the brighter side, there are huge areas well within Argentina's Atlantic Coastal waters, among many other parts of the country, where lots of oil resides. And most of it is less than 1,000 feet below the ocean. Argentina's old nationalized oil company, YPF, depends upon the help of other oil companies such as Exxon and Shell to explore and pump oil. And YPF recently sold off many of its shares to foreign interests.

However, a symbolic mark of what great friends the UK and Argentina are is Harrods on Avenida Florida in the old Micro Centro. When the economy collapsed in 2001, Harrods packed up and left. The building still stands and shares a spooky architectural style with the original Harrods in London. But the place is an empty eyesore on an avenue of otherwise thriving leather goods and clothing stores. Avenida Florida is usually the place where most tourists end up for a day or two of shopping. It's sort of an upscale version of Avenida de Revolución in Tijuana, MX, but instead of folk trinkets they sell Prada, Chanel, Rolex (real ones), Bolle, Valentino, Nike, and it's a great place to get a quality, fully lined, tailored-made leather trench coat to go with your Farragamos.

Argentina has many problems and it will be decades before the small population in this huge country stabilizes. Corruption is rampant. But unlike the USA and the UK, the corruption is out in the open.

Last census, which was more than 10 years ago, guestimated that the population of the entire country was about 40 million. It's more like 48 million, but no one can say for certain. Therefore, this year there will be a new census. And are any of you aware that more than 10 million Italians immigrated here between 1900 and 1966?

Still, the majority of maps printed all over the world (except in English-speaking countries) identify the little scrabble of rocky islands where the wind never stops as the Malvinas -- not the Falklands. Considering the current economic situation down here most Argentines would love to have world-recognized ownership of the Mallvinas, but no one is interested in supporting the English-speaking residents of that country in the style which the UK has spoiled them. Better lamb and wool is raised in Patagonia. The 3,000 (more or less) folks on those little islands are little more than UK welfare recipients, receiving monthly stipends.

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The legal position of the Falkland Islands is governed by a UN resolution (and has been for very many years). The UN has decided that the dispute should be settled by a vote by the people who live on the Falkland Islands and that both UK and Argentina should abide by the outcome. The UK has indicated its willingness to comply. Argentina is not prepared to accept the UN resolution. There is little room for doubt at the outcome - the Falklanders want a measure of authority within the safety of status as a British Dependent Territory and would vote accordingly.

I don't see that there is anything more to be said - the law is the law - but I know the debate quickly gets into a lot of nationalistic flak. However remember that most people living in Argentina are the descendants of European migrants, just as are the Falklanders - if the Argentinians wish to dispute the British legal ownership of the Falklands the same wrong argument implies that Argentina should belong to indigenous peoples in Argentina, not Hispanic settlers. And of course the prospect of Falklands oil is a potent new issue. Drill results have so far been ambivalent but most likely there is recoverable oil there.

Have you looked at the budgets of states like Cal, NY, CT and Ma???

All blue states and all wildly fiscally out of control.