Well done Mr Cameron!!

...for allowing one of the EU's biggest contributers to have it's say.Bravo!!

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Just posted this in the other thread, and I'll say it again here:

It seems that the Cameron was expected to sign up to harmonised fiscal policies for Britain, not just the EZ17 - which was never on the agenda anyway.

Seems odd that a summit to save the euro has required more loss of sovereignty from almost all EU members, yet provided very little progress in solving the debt or growth problems. Admittedly, there'll be closer economic integration among the 17 (and the others) - but I'm still unsure as to why Britain was expected to sign upto this in the first place, since we're not even part of the Euro crisis. Will be interesting to see what the Czechs and Swedes do.

It's also annoying that many Europeans are blaming us for trying to scuttle the EU, when we're doing no such thing. We're all in favour of new measures for closer harmonisation among the Eurozone, we're also in favour of rescuing the Euro. We are not trying to stop the 17 moving forwards - we just don't want to be a part of that aspect ourselves. So what's the problem?

Try focusing on Europe's own responsibility for their sovereign debt crisis, and stop blaming the UK. Also, address the need for the ECB to act as lender of last resort, issue eurobonds, and have the ECB intervene to help the struggling nations. None of these show any sign of happening as yet - apart from a meagre .25% cut in interest rates which is hardly going to solve everything.

This seems almost unbelievable.
Are you sure of this, joll?
The UK would have the loss of sovereignty that goes with being an EZ member, without the benefits, small as they now seem.

"Conan! What is best in life?"

"To crush your enemies -- see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!"

That's barbaric, kidz.

Don't try this at home.

~ ConanTheBarber (but you can call me Connie)

It was all fairly predictable,the response from Europe, about us being bad Europeans.As you say the crisis facing the Euro isn't even our problem despite the UK contributing (financially) to its on going debacle.
The French and Germans are being just about as predictable as only they can be,cosying up to one another in self interest.Christ, they spent the better part of the 20th century doing just that, only to end up throttling each other in two world wars.

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Will be interesting to see how events unfold! :P

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Certainly seems like it - altho it's hard trying to piece the info together.

Saving the euro is in our interest, but subjecting ourselves to much closer scrutiny and tax harmonisation (in addition to damaging financial transaction taxes) is not what we had in mind. :P

well done cameron? Mmmhh dont know... He keeped the british nationalism high and deklared british intrests higher then europes... He got what he want. He didnt had to change the eu contracts. So still every eu desition has to be confirmed by all countries and not by only 80% of all countries... Congrats!
But what is the price?
The ez can make desitions now by their own and the ez will as less care for british intrests as cameron did it at this meeting... Also the ez is 75% of the eu gdp... That means the ez makes now the desitions for the eu and britain has nothing to say anymore...
Why should the ez try to make rules for the eu from now on? We make our own rules and who wanna trade with us has to follow our rules...


So yes well done cameron... Well done for the ez

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He didn't declare British interests higher than European ones. He was fully supportive of attempts to shore up the eurozone - specifically in terms of EZ integration (plus other measures the eurozone seems strangely reluctant to enact). We merely stated that we didn't want to be part of further financial integration, which is necessary only for the eurozone.

You'd also do well to remember that the UK is one of Germany's biggest export markets - especially since many ez nations are not able to afford your goods at present.

you will buy our goods no matter if you are in the ez or not... So what?

All i say is that britain lost a lot of its influence and has to do what the ez wants... you lose cause of cameron political power. I never talked about to lose economical power. So why should i worry about our exports to britain? And britain is WAY under 10%... You are not so importent for germany ;)

it wasnt only about financiel integration... The main point for new eu treaties was that not 100% of all countries has to confirm new treaties but "only" 80%. This would make future desitions way more easier... And it was cameron that wants a veto for britain... And this behavior is shit...

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Who's to say we wouldn't agree with future ones? It's this particular area we want to stand back from.

And the behaviour is not in the slightest bit 'shit'. It would be foolish of us to sign up to stuff that we don't think is necessary. Integration is essential for the eurozone - but we never hinted we'd be part of it.

sure is it shit... Its not about further integration mainly it was about how the eu makes desitions in the future... For everyone it was okay that only 80% of confirmation is needed... But not for britain... The britains wants a veto when it comes to financial laws... Are you so spezial and better then everyone else that you deserve a veto?
If everyone would act like britain we would have now only 80% that have to confirm but 27 different areas with a veto. Cause every nation has "spezial intrests"
This isnt the way you make good working desitions...

The only thing that britain cares for is to keep the finance market as unregulated as possible but a unregulated finance market destabilase the whole world economy and britain doesnt care...

Yes this behaviour is shit! In the last 100years you learned nothing... This british nationalistic thinking was one reason for the first world war and with this thinking you try to lead the world in the next desaster. But it wount work this time... Now its an united europe that stands against britain and the price of lost political power that britain will have to pay will be huge

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Whaaat?! Look in the mirror, dude. And it's never a good idea to involve the world wars in debates such as this.

Dude - it's a treaty about financial measures to save the euro and to stop the crisis happening again. We just decided to stay out of it, as it wasn't appropriate for us. The whole of Europe isn't 'standing against us'; you're just getting on with eurozone matters by yourselves; well fine.

We're still involved in the other EU institutions and decision-making, thanks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/bu...treaty.html?hp

Sorry Joll, but Perados is right in that most of the financial mess that amplified the problems of the EZ has been imported from the US through the troian horse of the City.

Bravo Angela, I will write her a letter once more!

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
"Ruhm liegt nicht darin, niemals zu fallen, sondern jedesmal wieder aufzustehen, wenn wir gescheitert sind."
"La plus grande gloire n'est pas de ne jamais tomber, mais de se relever à chaque chute."
"La vera gloria non consiste nel non cadere mai, bensì nel rialzarsi dopo ogni caduta."
"Nuestra gloria más grande no consiste en no haberse caido nunca, sino en haberse levantado después de cada caída."

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that is my last name and me mum is from london, maybe i am a relative. *ducks*

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Cameron has handled this entire issue like an amateur.

I have already said that he does not impress me. He is vain and stupid. What sort of moron goes into negotiations with a sine qua non demand? It may impress the wretched little tory shits in parliament who make Jason look like a Europhile, but it set him up in these negotiations to look like a fool. And that is precisely what he looks like now.

Merkozy were able to present Cameron as a selfish twat looking to make ground on UK issues on the back of the crisis that faces Europe, which does affect the UK. These negotiations needed everyone to be seen to be working together, Cameron insisted on unilateral concessions before anyone was seen to be working towards the solution. Now the UK is not even at the table.

Next time, David dear boy, take a grown up to the negotiations with you.

As my Grandfather used to say, "If you are going to have a woman, why not have a beautiful one who wants to fuck you."