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The definition of slut

Originally Posted by petite Okay, I'm revisiting this because I just remembered a conversation I had with TheBF a long time ago. You claim that those guys pretend to be feminist in front of women

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Old 05-01-2012   #46 (permalink)
sbat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petite View Post
Okay, I'm revisiting this because I just remembered a conversation I had with TheBF a long time ago.

You claim that those guys pretend to be feminist in front of women but act like chauvinists in front of men. This is something I asked TheBF about.

I said something like this, "So supposedly guys aren't supposed to be serious about women that they have sex with too early, right? But look at the people we know. They clearly don't actually do that. Look at [here I gave a loooong list of examples of guys we know who got serious with women who broke the "rules"]. So, what's going on there?"

TheBF told me that it's because that's what men say to other men because they think that's what they're supposed to say. Even though they might not have the balls to admit it to each other, when it comes to girl that he falls for, it really won't matter.

"So, you're saying that there's a big disconnect between what guys say and what they'll do?"

"Pretty much."

So, according to him, at least some men are just pretending to be chauvinists in front of their male friends. Personally, I think you can judge what men really believe by looking at their actions, not whether they say what women want to hear in front of women or what men want to hear in front of men.
Ah, and there's the monkey wrench that prevents anyone from generalizing - even about "bros" :) The BF makes a good point, and I have experienced what he is talking about.

On the other hand, very few men will admit to being chauvinist in public - our society is very thorough in shaming bullies and abusive people. Strangely enough, bullying and abusive behavior are very common, and its precisely because of bro culture - these are guys that go to good schools, have good jobs, maybe military service, in shape, and have the public appearance of upstanding contributors to the economy/society. They know how to act publicly. Sure, some are douchey and obnoxious and easy to spot, but if you ever went to group therapy at a women's shelter, you would be shocked at how insidiously widespread and harmful bro culture is among people you probably wouldn't suspect because they know what to say and how to smile in public.
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Old 05-01-2012   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbat View Post
Ah, and there's the monkey wrench that prevents anyone from generalizing - even about "bros" :) The BF makes a good point, and I have experienced what he is talking about.
Some men probably also change as they mature, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbat View Post
On the other hand, very few men will admit to being chauvinist in public - our society is very thorough in shaming bullies and abusive people.
Which is how it should be. People should speak up and say something when they don't believe something is right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbat View Post
Strangely enough, bullying and abusive behavior are very common, and its precisely because of bro culture - these are guys that go to good schools, have good jobs, maybe military service, in shape, and have the public appearance of upstanding contributors to the economy/society. They know how to act publicly. Sure, some are douchey and obnoxious and easy to spot, but if you ever went to group therapy at a women's shelter, you would be shocked at how insidiously widespread and harmful bro culture is among people you probably wouldn't suspect because they know what to say and how to smile in public.
I don't have to go to a women's shelter. I've experienced it, I know friends who have been hurt, and there are women here who have experienced it and share with each other, in private, the ways that they have been hurt by men who think like that, who have those kinds of beliefs. I don't know how much of that is specifically the fault of "bro" culture or that I would attribute it to "bro" culture. It's not something I've considered before. I'm going to have to think about that, but it's a subject I'm a bit ignorant about.


Last edited by petite; 05-01-2012 at 05:51 PM..
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Old 05-01-2012   #48 (permalink)
NotSoDumb_Blonde is offline


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifterwood View Post

I think the term generally says more about the person using it rather than the person it is aimed at.
This is what I always thought, especially if you are using it to hurt someone -- male or female --

There is more to sex appeal than just measurements. I don't need a bedroom to prove my womanliness. I can convey just as much sex appeal, picking apples off a tree or standing in the rain.
Audrey Hepburn
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Old 05-01-2012   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFemme View Post
Personally, I don't care about numbers. That's just math and I've always hated math. I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here - everyone either has or doesn't have periods of promiscuity in their life. If they do, they may have it for a variety of reasons. Big deal. When I meet someone I care about, they come to me with exactly the right amount of lovers in their past - zero or a thousand, it doesn't matter.

My ex and I used to use the term slut or slutty to describe how we were with each other sometime. It wasn't derogatory, but a fun term to describe being completely uninhibited with each other - fun, sexual, crazy, open, adventurous. Like giving head in the parking lot at work or dry humping in the elevator. It was like a little code to text each other. To me it was kind of like reclaiming that word and taking some of the old sting from it. Years ago that word was used to hurt me - with him it was used to arouse, tickle and elevate me.
Thanks for sharing this LaFemme. I liked what you said about reclaiming it and also, thanks to everyone for opening up and talking about this topic on here. I have to say, I posted and ran. I read part of that other thread I commented on and got sick of the whole institution of men in general and I shouldn't have. Every awful person out there has a completely opposite and truly awesome person as a counterpart! Some of these posts prove that. Anyway, thanks to those of you who tried to really discuss this topic.

There is more to sex appeal than just measurements. I don't need a bedroom to prove my womanliness. I can convey just as much sex appeal, picking apples off a tree or standing in the rain.
Audrey Hepburn
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Old 05-01-2012   #50 (permalink)
bobg4400 is offline


Just to be clear at this point 'bro' is the same thing as 'male chauvinist' right?

Anyway Male Chauvinism is one of those things guys mostly grow out of because it consists of expecting a woman to act like your wife from the 1950's with the cooking and the cleaning and the not allowed to get a job. Most women won't go for a guy like that so sooner or after when the guy wants to settle down he's forced to grow up and treat woman properly.

That's not to say there aren't guys out there who don't but those are the people you hear about in the news when their wife eventually manages to escape from the basement or something where he keeps her and forces her to have sex and cook for him, and no-one ever goes near those guys after their names and faces are plastered all over the internet.

Last edited by bobg4400; 05-01-2012 at 06:16 PM.. Reason: Incorrect use of 'there'
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Old 05-01-2012   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobg4400 View Post
Just to be clear at this point 'bro' is the same thing as 'male chauvinist' right?

Anyway Male Chauvinism is one of those things guys mostly grow out of because it consists of expecting a woman to act like your wife from the 1950's with the cooking and the cleaning and the not allowed to get a job. Most women won't go for a guy like that so sooner or alter when the guy wants to settle down he's forced to grow up and treat womam properly.

That's not to say there aren't guys out there who don't but those are the people you hear about in the news when there wife eventually manages to escape from the basement or something where he keeps her and forces her to have sex and cook for him, and no-one ever goes near those guys after there names and faces are plastered all over the internet.
Sadly this is not entirely true. I wish it was only men like this that treated women poorly. There are tons of reasons why men treat women badly, and there are tons of reasons why women stay with those men, but needless to say, it's not just those 'news' stories -- trust me, I worked in the news and it's hard to get those stories unless the woman A) escapes, or less likely B) leave him and reports on him. So, yes, abuse happens and yes, it's those nice neighbors with the two kids, one dog and picket fence, sometimes. Other times it's the obnoxious asshole living next door that you just KNOW is abusing his wife. It's not always apparent, is what I'm getting at, and it is hidden -- shameful even -- to those who endure it (for whatever reason).

There is more to sex appeal than just measurements. I don't need a bedroom to prove my womanliness. I can convey just as much sex appeal, picking apples off a tree or standing in the rain.
Audrey Hepburn
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Old 05-01-2012   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobg4400 View Post
Just to be clear at this point 'bro' is the same thing as 'male chauvinist' right?

Anyway Male Chauvinism is one of those things guys mostly grow out of because it consists of expecting a woman to act like your wife from the 1950's with the cooking and the cleaning and the not allowed to get a job. Most women won't go for a guy like that so sooner or alter when the guy wants to settle down he's forced to grow up and treat womam properly.

That's not to say there aren't guys out there who don't but those are the people you hear about in the news when there wife eventually manages to escape from the basement or something where he keeps her and forces her to have sex and cook for him, and no-one ever goes near those guys after there names and faces are plastered all over the internet.
10 people may define bro or chauvinist in 10 different ways. In my mind, bro culture (aka nouveau chavinism) is somewhat of a male reaction to the growing power of feminist ideals as socialized norms, perhaps out of a feeling of displacement. It glorifies and worships male power and a universe where women are largely sexual objects.

While we would like to say "oh they'll grow up eventually" - a lot of them do. But I'm sure enough women on this board can speak to the psychology of abusive relationships to agree that it's really not that simple to "change the man or dump his ass". For someone bro to the core you can't change that any more than you could "tame" a headstrong and assertive woman. And the high levels of emotional manipulation make it hard for the woman to leave.

Also, the attraction that many women feel towards successful (or overtly masculine) bros is a reflection of instinctive response towards physical and financial power. Add that to the fact that there are many women who never grew up with positive male role models and expect that kind of treatment as "normal" - where I am in the midwest, bro behavior is very much validated by female sexual attention.
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Old 05-01-2012   #53 (permalink)
petite is offline


Quote:
Originally Posted by sbat View Post
10 people may define bro or chauvinist in 10 different ways. In my mind, bro culture (aka nouveau chavinism) is somewhat of a male reaction to the growing power of feminist ideals as socialized norms, perhaps out of a feeling of displacement. It glorifies and worships male power and a universe where women are largely sexual objects.

While we would like to say "oh they'll grow up eventually" - a lot of them do. But I'm sure enough women on this board can speak to the psychology of abusive relationships to agree that it's really not that simple to "change the man or dump his ass". For someone bro to the core you can't change that any more than you could "tame" a headstrong and assertive woman. And the high levels of emotional manipulation make it hard for the woman to leave.

Also, the attraction that many women feel towards successful (or overtly masculine) bros is a reflection of instinctive response towards physical and financial power. Add that to the fact that there are many women who never grew up with positive male role models and expect that kind of treatment as "normal" - where I am in the midwest, bro behavior is very much validated by female sexual attention.
So are you or are you not talking about those guys who are sort of like the preppy version of the Jersey Shore guys, but in a fraternity together? Is that what you mean by bro culture? I don't know anything about those guys, except what I've gleaned from other people making fun of them.

I think you might be right about a backlash.

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Old 05-01-2012   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petite View Post
So are you or are you not talking about those guys who are sort of like the preppy version of the Jersey Shore guys, but in a fraternity together? Is that what you mean by bro culture? I don't know anything about those guys, except what I've gleaned from other people making fun of them.

I think you might be right about a backlash.
Yep. Think of Bradley Cooper's character in The Wedding Crashers. Or the ultimate bro caricature, Neil Patrick Harris' Barney Stinson on How I Met Your Mother.

I have known many bros, and even slumped into bro-ism in my past. It's easy to follow the herd especially when under the influence.

But as pointed out, true men grow up and stop treating women differently in front of their friends. Because men become secure in who they are and lose that need to show off or belittle others in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Most women have a very good bro radar. They sometimes play the game because bros can be fun. But brosephine, when they choose a mate, the way a man treats them, other women, children, pets, and strangers says a lot more about him than his cool bro persona.

Sex is sexy without the why.
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Old 05-01-2012   #55 (permalink)
twoton is offline


I'm jumping in without reading through all the posts, but as for bro culture and male chauvinism, etc., I don't think I know any guys who are like that. I know they're on TV, and in the media, and people talk about them, and I'd know one if I met one, but scanning the memory banks for all the guys I know personally....can't think of any that fit that description.

That's not to say that pop culture and the media don't do everything in their power to nurture the bro culture, because they do. Kind of like giving all the bros a passing grade in life as long as they're not just jerks, but lovable jerks.

Women are supposed to be the responsible, intelligent adults and men are not only allowed, but expected to act like a bunch of 14 year old boys for their whole lives.

Last edited by twoton; 05-01-2012 at 10:02 PM..
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Old 05-02-2012   #56 (permalink)
fizzyjizz is offline


SLUT:What men with non-existent sex lives call women with good sex lives.

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Old 05-02-2012   #57 (permalink)
VernalTiger is offline


Quote:
Originally Posted by sbat View Post

While I don't agree philosophically, that "bro" you were arguing with has a point in that his nouveau chauvinist mindset is quite widespread - even among guys that put up a feminist friendly or overall "good guy" facade in social settings.
I'm thinking we need a new term... "Bro-vinist"...?

In the interests of full disclosure, my avatar is not a photo of me.

"Brevity is the soul of lingerie" - Dorothy Parker
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Old 05-02-2012   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VernalTiger View Post
I'm thinking we need a new term... "Bro-vinist"...?
<sigh> I guess that could work instead.
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Old 05-02-2012   #59 (permalink)
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Lust. Yep, guilty.
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Old 05-02-2012   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VernalTiger View Post
I'm thinking we need a new term... "Bro-vinist"...?
Can't. Stop. Laughing.
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