Feminism and transgender

[jaap_stam]

Interesting article from the New Yorker about the anti-trangender stance of some radical feminists

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/04/woman-2

 

[TexanStar]

I consider and call myself a feminist.

I do not pay any attention to fringe radical feminists. They're frequently saying things like all sex is rape and such. They have disputes with damn near everyone who isn't also a fringe radical. *shrug*

 

[Egghead1985]

I consider and call myself a feminist.

I do not pay any attention to fringe radical feminists. They're frequently saying things like all sex is rape and such. They have disputes with damn near everyone who isn't also a fringe radical. *shrug*

Totally agree they give feminist s a bad name

 

[jaap_stam]

I consider and call myself a feminist.

I do not pay any attention to fringe radical feminists. They're frequently saying things like all sex is rape and such. They have disputes with damn near everyone who isn't also a fringe radical. *shrug*

Do they include FF lesbian sex in the rape category? I don't know much about them save some truly baffling posts on Tumblr by what I assume are teens who don't know better.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

I only had to read as far as Lierre Keith. Ugh.

On a completely intellectual level I get what Morgan said in 73, and the trope the radfems still use.
You haven't walked in our shoes.

I think transwomen have their own hell, and their usually-more-fabulous-than-mine shoes are welcome on my road.

 

[jaap_stam]

I only had to read as far as Lierre Keith. Ugh.

On a completely intellectual level I get what Morgan said in 73, and the trope the radfems still use.
You haven't walked in our shoes.

I think transwomen have their own hell, and their usually-more-fabulous-than-mine shoes are welcome on my road.

Is Lierre Keith a particularly provocative/contraversial feminist?

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Provocative/controversial human. I know her drivel from the vegetarian world. She's an ex vegan who thinks no one else should be allowed the choice.

 

[LaFemme]

I am a feminist. I won't read anything from radical fringe feminists.

 

[Greysun]

I tend to stay out of such arguments. I have my opinion of course. They are like butt holes after all. Everyone has one. I consider myself a first wave feminist. The push for equality, all for that. Second wave was transitioning to third wave when I was growing up, but I could never really get into it. I just identified with first wave better. Third wave is just too far out there for me. They have created a victim culture that demands you feel sorry for them and agree with their ever perceived slight (whether it was or not) or be labeled a sexist. It has turned a beautiful movement into something grotesque. RadFem is the purest form of third wave. Men and trans women are the enemy and must be subjugated. Trans-men are traitors that must be put to the sword. They discredit the movement with every venomous word.

While I don't believe that you can change your gender through surgery nor do I buy the ~I feel there for I am~ argument, it just doesn't matter enough to me to fight about. If you want to change something about yourself to make your life better or because it makes you happy, then do it. If you prefer I refer to you with a different pronoun, fine. Makes no difference to me. If you want to wear dresses and skirt instead of pants (or vice versa), just make sure the outfit doesn't clash and you're good.

I have a trans-male childhood friend. He was never like the other girls. I use male pronouns when referring to him, but I still think of him as the girl with the pigtails I use to climb trees with when we were kids. He helped me perfect my make-out technique when I "discovered girls". Which I really appreciated as I knew he would have been considered a lesbian then. (So.. straight now? I guess?) I have no problem with him going into the men's locker room or showers at the gym. I do take issue when competing for a woman's attention at a party or bar though..He has an unfair advantage! He knows how that rats nest of a mind works. That is a device that can only be operated by those who already know how it works. Otherwise, we're good.

I don't understand why that is so hard for some people to grasp. To my fellow westerners who stand in opposition, I must say this: Why does it matter to you so damn much if Natalie becomes Nathan or Terry becomes Terri. What possible effect could that have on your identity as a man or woman? Grow the fuck up. The world, it is a changin'. Get with it or get the hell out of the way. We got more important shit to fight over.

 

[AlteredEgo]

I want everyone to be his or her (or whatever pronoun goes now for the genderless) authentic self. What thoughts I have that are contrary to someone's self-determined or altered gender I tend to keep to myself unless pressed. Generally, I am happy to refer to anyone by any name, pronoun, adjective or whatever they like. I do not like being referred to as cis or natal, or bio, or whatever er else. Just woman, thanks. Someone else's situation does not give their movement the right to change the label I looked forward to earning. ESPECIALLY if they expect me to share with them, I take offense to being given some unwanted, unasked for prefix. I think in most contexts there is no reason to distinguish between female women and transwomen; woman is a good enough word if it is the word any party wants. When a distinction is necessary, well... I'm not cis or natal, or whatever. I reject (and resent) those labels.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

I want everyone to be his or her (or whatever pronoun goes now for the genderless) authentic self. What thoughts I have that are contrary to someone's self-determined or altered gender I tend to keep to myself unless pressed. Generally, I am happy to refer to anyone by any name, pronoun, adjective or whatever they like. I do not like being referred to as cis or natal, or bio, or whatever er else. Just woman, thanks. Someone else's situation does not give their movement the right to change the label I looked forward to earning. ESPECIALLY if they expect me to share with them, I take offense to being given some unwanted, unasked for prefix. I think in most contexts there is no reason to distinguish between female women and transwomen; woman is a good enough word if it is the word any party wants. When a distinction is necessary, well... I'm not cis or natal, or whatever. I reject (and resent) those labels.

I also have pause with the labels. I'm happy to use them in a discussion of trans, but not across the board. As a way to note those born to their identified gender, it's an ok shorthand.
But I also think that unless you are an activist, once you are living your authentic self, trans is done. You are a woman or man.

 

[185248]

The thing about "conferences", is that it can become group opinion. It can take away an individuals right to be an individual if you do not happen to fit into a particular geometric shape or between the covers of a book. Where does it leave those not explained in the pages between those covers

Human rights for me is an individual thing. It is the rite for every human to be individual if they wish. Unless an individuals rites impede or do harm to another human or humans rights shall their individual rite or beliefs be challenged. Sounds a wee bit legal like dunnit? When is a Rite wrong?

Off on a tangent as usual...

 

[jaap_stam]

The thing about "conferences", is that it can become group opinion. It can take away an individuals right to be an individual if you do not happen to fit into a particular geometric shape or between the covers of a book. Where does it leave those not explained in the pages between those covers

Human rights for me is an individual thing. It is the rite for every human to be individual if they wish. Unless an individuals rites impede or do harm to another human or humans rights shall their individual rite or beliefs be challenged. Sounds a wee bit legal like dunnit? When is a Rite wrong?

Off on a tangent as usual...

That's a fair standard to have. Even the most culturally relativistic people take pause at things like ritual human sacrifice.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

vibes, the other issue in conferences and other large gatherings is the spiral of silence, where an unpopular opinion isn't voiced because the speaker, or really potential speaker, already feels outnumbered.

 

[TexanStar]

I'm a feminist and I think trannies are freaks.

 

[jaap_stam]

I'm a feminist and I think trannies are freaks. I'm not any more concerned with them being beaten than I am with any other man.

Judging from this and your many other comments, I get the feeling that you are using feminism as a smokescreen for a wide range of personal prejudices.

 

[ronin001]

Judging from this and your many other comments, I get the feeling that you are using feminism as a smokescreen for a wide range of personal prejudices.

I thought it but you typed it.

 

[AlteredEgo]

As a way to note those born to their identified gender, it's an ok shorthand.

I disagree. I don't need a shorthand term. Female has only two syllables and six letters. Women who transition are women, but not female. If I need to be distinguished from women who became women from the other side of dysphoria, female works. I completely reject (and resent) hyphenations and new labels. It's the same principle to me where I reject being called an African American. I'm sixth generation here. My ancestors nurtured and sold the trees that became the first railroad here, and built the first black elementary school in their county in central Florida. How long until I get to just be an American? The prefixes are unnecessary, and I don't like them.

 

[deleted848353]

I'm a feminist and I think trannies are freaks. I'm not any more concerned with them being beaten than I am with any other man.

Trans people are just that people no different to me you or anyone else so you may wanna grow up and take a look in the mirror because your a very jaded person far from a feminist

 

[TexanStar]

Trans people are just that people no different to me you or anyone else so you may wanna grow up and take a look in the mirror because your a very jaded person far from a feminist

She's trolling. She does this in a lot of threads... starts off by saying what a proud feminist she is, and then immediately follows that up with some prejudiced statement or hate speech.