Game of Thrones

[hairynyc]

My argument isn't about whether Stannis would be a good ruler, it is about the claim to be the One True King, as opposed to Renly... One Robert Baratheon does not a dynasty make. He didn't even rule very long.

Daenerys Targaryen has as much right to that claim as Stannis.

A/B

Is that in response to me? Because I'm totally not seeing the words "one true king" or even "good ruler" in my post. I was just saying that I found the character interesting and felt that the writers really didn't do him justice. Also, regardless of losing battles he was a great warrior.

I'm actually a bit confused by the one true king thing myself because what does a royal line mean in a world where the throne can be taken? As far as I'm concerned, it belongs to the person who takes and holds it, though I'm personally disgusted by the idea of kings and queens. I actually liked (show) Renly a lot (not just because Gethin Anthony is cute as fuck) and think he would have made a good king, especially given the options. I was curious as to why Robert gave Storm's End to Renly and sent Stannis to Dragonstone. I read that it was in part because Dragonstone was the ancestral home to the Targaryens and Robert felt Stannis could keep order there. It was also suggested that Renly was given Storm's End because he had a way with people and Robert knew Stannis could never manage the politics involved with all the lords and such like Renly could.Honestly, even if I believed in the following the line business, I think Stannis would have been a pretty bad king, especially with Melisandre influencing him.

 

[ActionBuddy]

Sorry, Hairynyc, it was more a response to Tripod and a couple others. I should have clarified.

That's the thing... The Baratheons are in power for less than one generation, but their blood is of a "royal line"? Doesn't make sense to me, especially considering the slob of a man that Robert became.

And, yeah, Renly was all about bringing people together, where as Stannis was just your typical top-down authoritarian with scary company. That's why I would have put my army to Renly's use, (if I had one!).

A/B

 

[paraguy]

Sorry, Hairynyc, it was more a response to Tripod and a couple others. I should have clarified.

That's the thing... The Baratheons are in power for less than one generation, but their blood is of a "royal line"? Doesn't make sense to me, especially considering the slob of a man that Robert became.

And, yeah, Renly was all about bringing people together, where as Stannis was just your typical top-down authoritarian with scary company. That's why I would have put my army to Renly's use, (if I had one!).

A/B

The claim the Baratheons have is that the start of their line was the bastard son of a Targarrian. So when Robert overthrew the Mad King he asserted his claim and the various lords all bent the knee and acknowledged it.

The legitamacy of a claim on the throne is mostly dependent on getting people of power and influence to agree that you have one.

 

[hairynyc]

So one thing I found a bit confusing was that Stannis had "King's blood". He wasn't born into a royal line and Robert became king when Stannis was a grown man. Is King's blood something that is sort of predetermined by the gods. Like was Robert only able to become king because he had that blood in him or is it some kind o retroactive thing like, "Oh you're king now? OK, you and all your family have king's blood!" And I know a lot of that was Melisandre blowing smoke up his ass, but it seems there is some truth to it if predictions are to be believed (sorry Shireen!). ETA: Cleared up thanks to paraguy's above post.

I think what made (show) Stannis such a pain ride was not that he believed he was the One True Heir TM, but that because of that he didn't have to win hearts or minds. Labeling people traitors and burning them alive because they questioned him or wouldn't bend the knee in belief he was the rightful heir to the throne? Crazy. The show even drove that home by following scenes with talk of the mad king with a Stannis scene. Or that scene at the Iron Bank when they turned him down and he shot daggers at Davos with his eyes. Dude, you're the one who wants the throne, so why aren't YOU making the case? Why is it everyone else's responsibility to make this happen for you? He couldn't really prove that Joffrey wasn't Robert's son, so maybe put in some leg work on convincing people. I did like that he was on the front line of every battle rather than sending others to fight and die for him.

 

[Novaboy]

This

 

[ActionBuddy]

The claim the Baratheons have is that the start of their line was the bastard son of a Targaryen. So when Robert overthrew the Mad King he asserted his claim and the various lords all bent the knee and acknowledged it.

I'm confused by this statement, Parguy, and after reading this short biography of Robert, (below), I see no evidence of a "bastard son" being involved in the Baratheon line, but only a past "legitimate" marriage of Robert's paternal grandparents:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Baratheon

"Robert also had the best claim to the throne as a result of being related to the Targaryens through his paternal grandmother, Rhaelle Targaryen."

Please explain your thoughts on this matter... I suppose, that would give Robert further claim to the throne, but, basically he took it by force, and then became king "First of His Name". And, again I ask, how does that qualify the Baratheon bloodline as truly "Royal"?

A/B

 

[ActionBuddy]

Along that train of thought about "Royal blood", (as if that is a real thing), let's get back to Melisandre's psycho obsession with it.

How does Robert's "bastard" son Gendry's blood, sucked out by leeches and burned, give her the power to create a murdering ghost? (After force fucking him.)... Why would she think it necessary to totally burn innocent Shireen_Baratheon at the stake, instead of just burning some of her blood, as well?

If Gendry so qualifies as having "Royal blood" to make the murder of Renly happen, why does she turn her sights and go after Jon Snow to acquire some of his, (by attempting to fuck him)?... Isn't she then acknowledging that Jon is of "Royal blood", too?... Now I wonder if part of her real motivation is to get impregnated by any man with possible "Royal blood", for her own devices... Seems like Stannis wasn't putting out much, so she has to get that sperm somewhere...

A/B

 

[paraguy]

I'm confused by this statement, Parguy, and after reading this short biography of Robert, (below), I see no evidence of a "bastard son" being involved in the Baratheon line, but only a past "legitimate" marriage of Robert's paternal grandparents:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Baratheon

"Robert also had the best claim to the throne as a result of being related to the Targaryens through his paternal grandmother, Rhaelle Targaryen."

Please explain your thoughts on this matter... I suppose, that would give Robert further claim to the throne, but, basically he took it by force, and then became king "First of His Name". And, again I ask, how does that qualify the Baratheon bloodline as truly "Royal"?

A/B

"Orys Baratheon, the founder of House Baratheon was a bastard half-brother of Aegon the Conqueror. He married the daughter of the Storm King (who was killed in action), so the Baratheons are descended both from kings and "dragons".

When Aegon first declared himself king, he had exactly 0% "royal blood" and no claim at all. When he was done he was the king. His blood was royal and his children were in the line of succession.

When Robert asserted his claim he touted his connection to the line of Dragons as a way of bolstering his claim (come on guys, old King was a dragon, my great great grand pappy was pretty much a dragon wink wink nudge nudge). Still, that supposed connection ultimately didn't matter. He won the rebellion and declared himself king. Houses Stark, Tully, Aran, Lannister, etc all declared him king. From that moment forward his family was royal and his bloodline had a claim on the throne.

 

[hairynyc]

Along that train of thought about "Royal blood", (as if that is a real thing), let's get back to Melisandre's psycho obsession with it.

How does Robert's "bastard" son Gendry's blood, sucked out by leeches and burned, give her the power to create a murdering ghost? (After force fucking him.)... Why would she think it necessary to totally burn innocent Shireen_Baratheon at the stake, instead of just burning some of her blood, as well?

If Gendry so qualifies as having "Royal blood" to make the murder of Renly happen, why does she turn her sights and go after Jon Snow to acquire some of his, (by attempting to fuck him)?... Isn't she then acknowledging that Jon is of "Royal blood", too?... Now I wonder if part of her real motivation is to get impregnated by any man with possible "Royal blood", for her own devices... Seems like Stannis wasn't putting out much, so she has to get that sperm somewhere...

A/B

I can never tell if I'm misunderstanding people, so apologies in advance if I get you wrong, but it was Stannis that impregnated her with the murder smoke baby. They had that really unfun looking bang on the war planning table and soon after she birthed it to kill Renly. All Gendry (who wasn't in their world yet) did was supply the blood for leeches that Stannis threw on the fire. There was a really awkward scene on the beach when Melisandre is heading off to find Gendry and Stannis pulls her close and is like "I want you. Give me another son." The bored, eye-rolling look on her face is priceless and she tells him his fires burn low or some such, but there's another way. Then she finds Gendry with the Brotherhood Without Banners. I'm not sure how she knew of Gendry or was even able to locate him. It seems there is something to her powers even if she gets stuff wrong. I think she can sense Jon has some kind of power, but doesn't necessarily know what it's about.

 

[Novaboy]

This

oops, wrong thread. I put it in what made you laugh today too. No idea how I put it here. I know nothing of Game of Thrones.

 

[ActionBuddy]

"You know nothing, Novaboy Snow."...

 

[paraguy]

I can never tell if I'm misunderstanding people, so apologies in advance if I get you wrong, but it was Stannis that impregnated her with the murder smoke baby. They had that really unfun looking bang on the war planning table and soon after she birthed it to kill Renly. All Gendry (who wasn't in their world yet) did was supply the blood for leeches that Stannis threw on the fire. There was a really awkward scene on the beach when Melisandre is heading off to find Gendry and Stannis pulls her close and is like "I want you. Give me another son." The bored, eye-rolling look on her face is priceless and she tells him his fires burn low or some such, but there's another way. Then she finds Gendry with the Brotherhood Without Banners. I'm not sure how she knew of Gendry or was even able to locate him. It seems there is something to her powers even if she gets stuff wrong. I think she can sense Jon has some kind of power, but doesn't necessarily know what it's about.

Basically she uses the "juice" she gets from fucking Stanis to make the smoke baby. This is draining on him, if she were to keep doing it she would kill him. The whole point of getting Gendry (or in the book Eldric Storm or done such, a bastard Robert conceived with someone on Staniss wedding night) is that she can get the "royal blood juice of power" she needs to +10 her spells without further draining Stanis.

 

[ActionBuddy]

"Orys Baratheon, the founder of House Baratheon was a bastard half-brother of Aegon the Conqueror. He married the daughter of the Storm King (who was killed in action), so the Baratheons are descended both from kings and "dragons".

When Aegon first declared himself king, he had exactly 0% "royal blood" and no claim at all. When he was done he was the king. His blood was royal and his children were in the line of succession.

When Robert asserted his claim he touted his connection to the line of Dragons as a way of bolstering his claim (come on guys, old King was a dragon, my great great grand pappy was pretty much a dragon wink wink nudge nudge). Still, that supposed connection ultimately didn't matter. He won the rebellion and declared himself king. Houses Stark, Tully, Aran, Lannister, etc all declared him king. From that moment forward his family was royal and his bloodline had a claim on the throne.

I can never tell if I'm misunderstanding people, so apologies in advance if I get you wrong, but it was Stannis that impregnated her with the murder smoke baby. They had that really unfun looking bang on the war planning table and soon after she birthed it to kill Renly. All Gendry (who wasn't in their world yet) did was supply the blood for leeches that Stannis threw on the fire. There was a really awkward scene on the beach when Melisandre is heading off to find Gendry and Stannis pulls her close and is like "I want you. Give me another son." The bored, eye-rolling look on her face is priceless and she tells him his fires burn low or some such, but there's another way. Then she finds Gendry with the Brotherhood Without Banners. I'm not sure how she knew of Gendry or was even able to locate him. It seems there is something to her powers even if she gets stuff wrong. I think she can sense Jon has some kind of power, but doesn't necessarily know what it's about.

Apologies all around!... Actually, there is just so much going on in the HBO series, as well as the books, (to the point that I quit reading them, so I could simply enjoy the series, i.e., just the first two: A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings), that I forget things, or confuse characters and events they were involved in. Please forgive me for that, but, I really do enjoy discussing GoT with you all... It's so absorbing.

Even still, with all this info about these self appointed "kings", I just find the concept of "Royal Blood" to be so bogus.

A/B

 

[hairynyc]

Oh it doesn't matter, I just wasn't sure if you were mixed up, if this was a book version or if I was totally misreading what you'd written. And, yes, it is fun to discuss because there's such a dense back story and all this stuff we don't know and hope will be revealed. A lot of the fan theories are just as interesting as the material we've been given. Some of those videos they post are incredible because they know every detail of this world. I don't know how many times you've watched the show, but you might consider starting from the beginning. I thought it would be boring, but with everything we know know, it's pretty interesting to pick up references I missed the first time and to have a better understanding of everything that's happening. Though I will admit, Ramsey is so boring to me that I often find myself doing other things during his scenes with Theon.

Meanwhile, someone on another forum joked about wanting the Septa saying "Shame. Shame." and ringing her gong as their ringtone. Tonight I did it. I usually walk around with earbuds in and don't hear my phone. It'll be pretty good if I get a call and people can hear it on the street.

 

[paraguy]

Interesting...

 

[ronin001]

Interesting...

Good sign he will be back for next seson

 

[ActionBuddy]

Oh it doesn't matter, I just wasn't sure if you were mixed up, if this was a book version or if I was totally misreading what you'd written. And, yes, it is fun to discuss because there's such a dense back story and all this stuff we don't know and hope will be revealed. A lot of the fan theories are just as interesting as the material we've been given. Some of those videos they post are incredible because they know every detail of this world. I don't know how many times you've watched the show, but you might consider starting from the beginning. I thought it would be boring, but with everything we know know, it's pretty interesting to pick up references I missed the first time and to have a better understanding of everything that's happening. Though I will admit, Ramsey is so boring to me that I often find myself doing other things during his scenes with Theon.

Good sign he will be back for next season

I am a bit mixed up, and that's why I like to have conversations about the story-lines involved with GoT.... I know it "doesn't matter", but, it is so fun.

I've watched each HBO episode at least twice, not just to make sure that I am keeping up with the various story-lines, but, also because they are so grand and cinematic. Each episode is by far better than the one and a half hour "Block-busters" you can see in noisy, distracting, over-priced, theatres these days.

When I am caught up with other stuff, I'll be watching the five seasons of GoT again... For the pleasure of it, as well as just to keep things "straight" in my mind about the "goings on".... There is just so much to figure out!...

Rumor has it that "Jon Snow", (Kit Harington), is now signed-up for the next two seasons... I said: "Rumor has it"!... Got that?

It's all about keeping the ratings up, by keeping the "hotties" on screen, at this point, I think, unfortunately.

http://www.eonline.com/news/673161/...s-jon-snow-find-out-why-and-check-out-a-photo

A/B

 

[ronin001]

Well we will find out in about 10 Months AB

 

[ActionBuddy]

10 long months... Time enough to read all the books, I suppose... But, I'm afraid that would ruin the joy of watching the HBO series, instead of enhancing it.

A/B

 

[lofty01]

Coldplay's GoT: The Musical -