Homoeroticism among straight men

invisibleman

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It genuinely does puzzle me why all this disecting of sexuality. Those whom align themselves to an exclusive sexuality sub culture (the so called gay world) are as dogmatic and controlling as the Roman curia. Would a straight man watching a man and woman fucking be entering the area of homoeroticism ? I do not think so. Though I suspect straight men overly interested in lesbian scenarios in porn display some deep pathological flaw that would quite rightly question their sexuality.

The ancient world did not seem so inclined to stick labels on themselves. I have looked at works of art that some critic has termed "homoerotic" and thought, bullshit. It could be a brilliant piece of art tht has some erotic context but if a straight male and a straight female can appreciate it then the whole thesis of sexual categoriztion crumbles.

Sarge--

Expression of thoughts on the topic and viewpoints are good...never bad.

Well, as far as your opinion of a critic's viewpoint on certain works being "homoerotic"-- maybe it was "all bullshit"; but possibly you thought that way looking at them from a straight male perspective. You weren't seeing how the critic may have perceived "homoeroticism" in those particular works.




 

highlander4life

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I don't care much about straight guys talking about their sex lives with each other. My experience is that most guys are posturing especially around other men; they say what they think other guys want to hear - and this is frequently banal.

I am interested in the ways in which culture shapes our personas. For instance; women can refer to their close personal friends as their girlfriends, but if men would call their best friends their boyfriends that would be the equivalent of flying the rainbow flag.

Culture influences our behavior in a myriad of ways we are mostly insensitive to. Just as some of the Muslim cultures seem to be accepting of some culturally coded displays which we would regard as obviously homosexual, they absolutely do not accept homosexuals, and are as insensible to the incongruence as we are to the incongruences of our culture(s).

I agree with dxjnorto. The concept of sexuality and sexual labeling even moreso, has become so apparent and a taboo topic now more than ever, even though we talk about sex more and more openly than ever. Think about all the lables that we have created to make ourselves feel more comfortable: gay, straight, lesbian, homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, transexual, transgender, metrosexual (I can't believe this one), omnisexual etc., etc. It's like it's trendy to create more labels and find yourself in one of those categories.

I find this to be more expressed in North America, than it is elsewhere in the world and I've travelled all over. In Europe for example (France, Italy, Greece etc) it is quite normal for straight men to kiss each other when they meet just like men kiss women. However, in North America, men couldn't kiss women on the cheek until the recent years. You could kiss one woman's hand in order to show respect and appreciation, but that's about it.

Just recently came from Afghanistan where I was on business trip and I heard an interesting story from the husband of a friend of mine who is Afghan (my friend is Canadian). He was telling me stories of these "boys" who have no family - abandoned kids etc., who are taken into custody by other older men, who provide food and roof above their head for them. The "boys" take care of the men and have sex with them and literally play the role of the "wife", that is until these men get married at which point the "boys" will find themselves other men and so on. In our world this would not be appropriate and most probably in many instances those men would even be considered pedophiles. Now, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, because it's not mine to judge, and I've learned this long time ago while traveling. Different people, different cultures, different mentalities.

Another thing that I find interesting is that as little kids Dads can hug, kiss and play with their sons and it is completely normal to show affection for their kids, but as they grow up, they start showing distance and lack of affection and what was completely normal before becomes inappropriate now. This is all due to the society moral values and what is accepted and what is not accepted.

Now this being said, I do believe that sexuality is something we are born with, however the society plays a big role in how we are shaped, what we do and how we label ourselves. In all of us there's some "gay", some "straight", some "masculinity" and some "femininity". Some of those are more expressed, then the others, but nevertheless they still do exist and are part of us. The problem arises when we try to deny a part of us, a part of who we are, due to the society classifications of what is "acceptable" and "not acceptable".

My two cents.
 

hypolimnas

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The problem arises when we try to deny a part of us, a part of who we are, due to the society classifications of what is "acceptable" and "not acceptable".
Yes, and as others have noted, we have to acknowledge that appearance and behaviour (and even language for that matter) are not reliable indicators of what people actually find erotic.

We make judgements to reassure ourselves that we are nice, and in control. Our judgements don't always change the nature of "reality".

It is possible to think too much about life. Living is the thing.
 

B_Guy Love

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And you don't see the homoeroticism inherent in one man telling another man what he wants to hear? The homoeroticism in such a situation is even more palpable when one straight man is telling another straight man what he wants to hear regarding a sexual topic.

I don't care much about straight guys talking about their sex lives with each other. My experience is that most guys are posturing especially around other men; they say what they think other guys want to hear - and this is frequently banal.
 

playainda336

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And you don't see the homoeroticism inherent in one man telling another man what he wants to hear? The homoeroticism in such a situation is even more palpable when one straight man is telling another straight man what he wants to hear regarding a sexual topic.
*ahem*

homoeroticism-(n.) a tendency to be aroused by a member of the same sex; a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex.

Talking about previous sexual experiences to another man is not homoeroticism.

I think a lot of people have a misconception of the denotation of the word.
 

B_Guy Love

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*ahem* Words have been known to either expand their meaning over time, or to at least incorporate a broader definition. A dictionary is not the end-all be-all.
 

playainda336

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That becomes a personalized connotation that people are misappropriating to a term, then. By the way, that definition cites multiple sources.

It is not homoeroticism, but something different. Maybe something like, "Men being men and wanting to share stories of exploits." Like "Fish Stories." Maybe a new word is in order...cause homoeroticism is not it?
 

B_Guy Love

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I remember reading that the very word "penis" was once a slang term. I think that many words that are now proper words were once slang terms.

That aside, at the very least will you admit that there is something erotic in men talking about sex, even heterosexual sex?

As a self-identified straight man, I've always felt there is a highly charged homoerotic tension in straight strip clubs. An almost exclusively male atmosphere (aside from the women, who are relatively removed from the atmosphere because they're on stage) where all the men are sexually charged up.

I suppose all I'm trying to say is that straight men enjoy seeing other straight men charged up sexually. If this weren't the case then we wouldn't watch porn with male performers.
 

hypolimnas

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It is not homoeroticism, but something different. Maybe something like, "Men being men and wanting to share stories of exploits." Like "Fish Stories." Maybe a new word is in order...cause homoeroticism is not it?

Do you mean like the one that got away?

I think the word "sharing" is just fine. The only reason it doesn't work for some is because it isn't loaded with judgement.
 

barryr2002

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i think there is a certain eroticism between straight men but i think its for completely different reasons than mentioned above! for instance i love talkin about sex and being naked around straight mates and there is a certain atmosphere....but i dont think theres anythin sexual in it! i think as a straight man its very hard to be confident in your masculinity and perhaps we find it comforting to hear other mens stories about exagerated sexual exploits....we sort of assert are own hetereosexual identites by sympathising and this re asserts our own status as a male, in a society where being a man is increasingly confusing and alot to live up to!!
 

playainda336

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I remember reading that the very word "penis" was once a slang term. I think that many words that are now proper words were once slang terms.

That aside, at the very least will you admit that there is something erotic in men talking about sex, even heterosexual sex?

As a self-identified straight man, I've always felt there is a highly charged homoerotic tension in straight strip clubs. An almost exclusively male atmosphere (aside from the women, who are relatively removed from the atmosphere because they're on stage) where all the men are sexually charged up.

I suppose all I'm trying to say is that straight men enjoy seeing other straight men charged up sexually. If this weren't the case then we wouldn't watch porn with male performers.
But that doesn't make it homoerotic. I'm not negating what you're saying. I'm just saying it's not "homoerotic". What gets the guy charged is the story about the exploit. It's like watching a porn. You're getting off on the sexual act, not necessarily towards the people in the porn itself. Not to say that you aren't. One is more turned on by the sexual act and not by the member of the same sex.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that sexually charged and homoeroticism are not as synonymous as you are trying to portray. When watching a porn, you want the male actor to be there, but you also want the female actor to be there. It is the act of sex that turns one on.

Fish Stories, even the "one who got away", are still more synonmyous to what you are trying to express. All of it is sharing stories about exploits that are intangible to the listener and thus, leave much up to the imagination of the listener to get a personal high off of. If you're talking about a fish that was "so big, you would have had to carry it in three boats" or a girl who "i fucked so hard her body started shaking and she fainted." it's all for the infatuation of the listener (or viewer in the case of the porn). Even if you're watching, you're not there. It's all for your imagination to get a bigger picture and it is your mind that turns you on. The thought that it could've been you in the story/porn and not the person who was telling it (person you're watching).

That is not homoeroticism.

Now if you told me a story about you in a room with another man and the man started jacking off while he thought you were sleep and you were watching and got turned on by it. Ok. That's homoeroticism.

These are two different things.
 

B_Guy Love

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For me, this isn't quite true. For me, I watch straight porn and am almost exclusively focused on the experience of the man himself. The woman should ideally be good looking, of course. But her experience is secondary to my interest in the man's experience.

I've heard that some guys don't like to see the facial expression of men when they ejaculate in the straight porn movies. For me, I love that. I love to see his facial expression. I love to see the guy completely naked and fucking the woman, full body shots of the guy -- and the expression on his face when he comes.

I love other stuff too. Like in gangbang movies, I love it when the men talk between themselves about what the woman feels like to have sex with. I love the high-fives they give each other. The black guys often do that "fist shake" that they do, you know, a fist where they hit the top and bottom one another's fist.

Because my focus is so totally on the straight man having sex with the woman, and the woman is entirely secondary, I have toyed with the idea that I may be gay or bisexual. But then I've seen gay movies and they do absolutely nothing for me at all. They make me lose my boner and in fact make me almost ill. Literally. There has to be a woman somewhere for me to be turned on. But that woman has to be secondary.

It's very weird because while this is straight, if the man's experience is central, then the man himself is being objectified. It's sort of a straight male objectification of another straight male.

And now I have a boner from writing this out. Wow! :biggrin1:

But that doesn't make it homoerotic. I'm not negating what you're saying. I'm just saying it's not "homoerotic". What gets the guy charged is the story about the exploit. It's like watching a porn. You're getting off on the sexual act, not necessarily towards the people in the porn itself. Not to say that you aren't. One is more turned on by the sexual act and not by the member of the same sex.
 

B_Guy Love

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Good points. Thanks.

i think there is a certain eroticism between straight men but i think its for completely different reasons than mentioned above! for instance i love talkin about sex and being naked around straight mates and there is a certain atmosphere....but i dont think theres anythin sexual in it! i think as a straight man its very hard to be confident in your masculinity and perhaps we find it comforting to hear other mens stories about exagerated sexual exploits....we sort of assert are own hetereosexual identites by sympathising and this re asserts our own status as a male, in a society where being a man is increasingly confusing and alot to live up to!!
 

B_dxjnorto

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Okay, so now I'm homoerotic but not gay? So, you're saying there's a difference between the two?
Definitely. Homoeroticism is evident in any number of venues. Look in any men's magazine and what do you find lots and lots of pictures of? - beautiful men. Men are very tuned in to beauty, but that does not a gay man make.
 

B_Guy Love

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Fascinating!

I have often wondered about this issue of men's health magazines.

I have often thought about the irony that at the bookstore I would feel very awkward reaching over and grabbing the Playgirl magazine and taking a look, because I would be labled "gay" by doing so.

The irony, though, is that I could go over and grab one of the men's health magazines and see many of the same models, almost as nude as in Playgirl magazine, and no one would question my sexuality by doing so.

And then, supposedly, most of those men's health magazines are read by straight men -- and some of them even have centerfolds! This is another example of what I mentioned earlier: homoeroticism present in very heterosexual environments.

While we're at it, how about this: I have never understood how it is that straight men taunt gay men by acting gay. In high school, some of the jocks would tease the more effeminate men by acting gay around them, going up and touching them, staring at them, and then saying things like, "You know you like it."

Men are odd.
 

invisibleman

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I believe that you are aroused at hearing a straight guys' sexual experiences. These are not considered "homoerotic". I have plenty of straight guys tell me about their sexual experiences women--I don't find them at all homoerotic.

Homoeroticism does have homosexual focus, inclinations and intentions.
You can believe that your straight friends tell-alls are homoerotic. Continue to say it is. You'll only perplex people in doing so. Especially, people who know what homoeroticism means.:rolleyes:
 

D_Coyne Toss

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We all can understand male beauty, i think: it is a matter of fact that Brad Pitt is more good looking than I am.

We also may have models to inspire to, i would like to look like Cristiano Ronaldo.

That does not mean that i dream to have an affair with them, and i have never dreamt about it, nevertheless i am not afraid, being sure of my sexual orientation, to distinguish male beauty.