I punched a stranger in the face

[longandskinny]

As long as we're doing stereotypes, I'd expect Jaap's kind of response much more from red-blooded Southern Americans than effete pot-smoking Dutchmen.

 

[hzs3fg]

"and he just kept going" - in other words, a lot of crap was coming out of his mouth.

I don't know many women who would take unsolicited sexual obsenities from strange men at dusk on the street as a compliment.

What kind of world am I living in? Again with your bourgeoisie moral posturing. Every member of my immediate family, me included, has been sexually assaulted. My father, at the hands of police in apartheid south Africa. How do you think "talking it out" worked for him? There are evil people all over this world who use other humans as objects - talk all you want, they will still have their way with you. That's why your government is committed to endless warfare and endless violence at home and abroad - so that you can sit safely at your keyboard and talk down at me about how to be more of a civilized human being.

Your story continues to develop. Every member of your family has been sexually assaulted? Is that one of the reasons you left South Africa for the (presumably) more civilized Netherlands?

Do you think punching a guy out adds to, or detracts from, the general level of civility?

Do you think a guy making rude comments to a passing lady compares to your father being sexually assaulted by South African police?

 

[jaap_stam]

How the fuck does me having to defend myself from a sexual assault equate to your unnecessary assault on a person? You're attempt at convolution is absurd.

"Coward...those are words used by people who have never been in a real fight."

You have a really warped view of things. Cowardice, or bravery for that matter, are not contingent upon one's commitment to violence. Or didn't your parents teach you that?

And what fight? You suckered a stranger on the street. Wow, what courage, my hero.

Look, if you had confronted him verbally first, told him to stop harassing the woman, and he became belligerent and then you hit him I wouldn't have responded here. But none of that happened. Instead you committed a crime and as I see it (from the heights of my morally superior mountain, or as I like to call it civility and reason) are worse than the individual you attacked.

Seriously, what reaction did you honestly expect when you decided to post your injudicious act of chivalry in the "women's issues" forum? If you were hoping for a trophy or a pat on the back you won't be getting one from me. All you did was add to what is wrong with the world today. This immediate jump to violence to solve things. By this modern age one would think we would have evolved as a species beyond our violent and bloody past, learned from our mistakes, but instead we've actually increased our appetite for violence and are devolving to an even more grotesque state. You've only contributed to that decline.

Instead of regret for what you've done all I'm reading here is a unrepentant sanctimonious lunatic who still actually believes his viscous act is somehow justified. From those of us still holding onto the hopes of a more harmonious and peaceful world, sanity, let me inform you it was not.

Calling a coward someone you've never met and don't know, on an internet forum, is the definition of sanctimonious. Failing to castigate myself for falling short of your moral standards does not mean that I am justifying myself or my actions. I did not use any language that was boasting or that implied an elevated sense of worth or savior-ship. Those were all things you projected.

I have sexual violence related PTSD. I shared because I have confusing feelings about this situation and thought I could talk it out with others who have been in a similar place emotionally.

 

[hzs3fg]

Calling a coward someone you've never met and don't know, on an internet forum, is the definition of sanctimonious. Failing to castigate myself for falling short of your moral standards does not mean that I am justifying myself or my actions. I did not use any language that was boasting or that implied an elevated sense of worth or savior-ship. Those were all things you projected.

I have sexual violence related PTSD. I shared because I have confusing feelings about this situation and thought I could talk it out with others who have been in a similar place emotionally.

No, you came here to brag and you are now dumbfounded by the generally negative response.

You have now progressed to PTSD. What next?

 

[jaap_stam]

Your story continues to develop. Every member of your family has been sexually assaulted? Is that one of the reasons you left South Africa for the (presumably) more civilized Netherlands?

Do you think punching a guy out adds to, or detracts from, the general level of civility?

Do you think a guy making rude comments to a passing lady compares to your father being sexually assaulted by South African police?

People who have experienced trama do not react in a rational manner when their triggers occur. I would suggest you do some reading on PTSD before asking such condescending questions. Something about the situation was an emotional trigger for me, and I'm still working that part out.

 

[jaap_stam]

No, you came here to brag and you are now dumbfounded by the generally negative response.

You have now progressed to PTSD. What next?

I did not come to brag. I thought that other women on this board might have had similar reactions to such situations. I'm generally rational, and not terribly in touch with my emotions, and most therapists here in Netherlands I talk to respond like Mercurygirl. I indicated from the beginning that something in the situation was a trigger and referenced my sisters recent troubles in the OP. Somehow, the two of you focused on the moralizing aspect of what I did wrong and didn't seem to think about the connection between my behaviors and some kind of processing of her situation.

I don't feel that the response here has been generally negative - just two people, yourself included, are insisting on unreasonable moral posturing.

 

[hzs3fg]

People who have experienced trama do not react in a rational manner when their triggers occur. I would suggest you do some reading on PTSD before asking such condescending questions. Something about the situation was an emotional trigger for me, and I'm still working that part out.

Don't tell me about PTSD. My son served three tours of duty in Afghanistan and I know many soldiers with real and we'll-earned PTSD. Men and women who put their lives on the line and came under fire almost daily with death always just minutes away.

And do you know what? They don't go around punching strangers because they don't like something they overheard.

 

[jaap_stam]

Don't tell me about PTSD. My son served three tours of duty in Afghanistan and I know many soldiers with real and we'll-earned PTSD. Men and women who put their lives on the line and came under fire almost daily with death always just minutes away.

And do you know what? They don't go around punching strangers because they don't like something they overheard.

Actually, some of them do. My current girlfriend (American girl) dated a Marine with PTSD who would choke her and get in fights at bars. And she herself has PTSD. But, I guess hers wasn't well earned because she didn't get it in a combat facing situation?

 

[jaap_stam]

As long as we're doing stereotypes, I'd expect Jaap's kind of response much more from red-blooded Southern Americans than effete pot-smoking Dutchmen.

I'm not Dutch by ancenstry, just citizenship.

 

[longandskinny]

I'm not Dutch by ancenstry, just citizenship.

Well that explains it.

 

[jaap_stam]

Well that explains it.

Haha, trust me, I'm reminded of that fact every day.

The one thing I do love about Netherlands is how tall everybody is, so I don't stick out like a sore thumb (for more than just skin tone)

 

[longandskinny]

Have you been diagnosed with PTSD?

 

[jaap_stam]

Have you been diagnosed with PTSD?

Yes. I'm not quite ready to openly talk about my personal experiences that lead to the traumatic event. However, I have noticed in myself a rapid increase in aggression when I see or experience helplessness in the context of aggressive sexual behavior.

 

[longandskinny]

Yes. I'm not quite ready to openly talk about my personal experiences that lead to the traumatic event. However, I have noticed in myself a rapid increase in aggression when I see or experience helplessness in the context of aggressive sexual behavior.

OK well I suppose it goes without saying that you should continue to seek professional help for that. If your therapists are not validating your aggression as much as you'd like, that doesn't make them wrong. I personally don't have moral hangups about using violence where appropriate, but I think that on balance it was a disproportionate response, even if the man's behavior was bordering on threatening.

 

[longandskinny]

I still stand by what I said that I don't think it's a big deal. If get punched for bad behavior and it doesn't hurt me permanently, I wouldn't be a baby about it and try to learn something from it. But there's always the danger that such unchecked anger can end up with worse consequences.

 

[dude_007]

So you make a dick move because you didn't like the dick behavior of the other guy.
Your physical violence was much worse than the guy's cat-calls, by the way.

Sounds like you need anger management.

 

[AlteredEgo]

But, I guess hers wasn't well earned because she didn't get it in a combat facing situation?

I have PTSD from a car accident. It is MUCH better with over a decade between me and the accident, but I have done some straight up insane shit as a passenger in cars over the years. While being driven home after a very successful first date, I was traumatized when the driver, my date, chose to save my life instead of sparing a jaywalking child. My triggers include driving/being driven under elevated trains, any liquid that resembles cerebrospinal fluid, tailgating, and being a passenger in a car stopping short. My reactions at the peak of my troubles have included screaming, leaping into the back seat, and grabbing the steering wheel. I'm years past my most recent flashback. I still react poorly to tailgating, and have never understood why tailgating became an issue. My guess is it makes me feel helpless against what I fear is an inevitable collision, but that is just a guess.

 

[jaap_stam]

OK well I suppose it goes without saying that you should continue to seek professional help for that. If your therapists are not validating your aggression as much as you'd like, that doesn't make them wrong. I personally don't have moral hangups about using violence where appropriate, but I think that on balance it was a disproportionate response, even if the man's behavior was bordering on threatening.

Not seeking validation. As I keep saying, I don't think what I did was subjectively "good" or "bad." I had a fight or flight response, triggered by a specific set of circumstances. Therapists I've seen have given me lectures about "good behavior" rather than science-based treatment of what is a brain chemistry issue. It's like if AlteredEgo went to a therapist for her PTSD and was ridiculed for her emotional response to being tailgated and told she was being silly for "making a big deal out of nothing". Not entirely helpful for dealing with the situation.

I get why it happens, it's complex to understand, and most humans have a distinct aversion to violence.

 

[longandskinny]

So if you're blaming it on the "brain chemistry" are you saying you'd prefer to be treated with drugs rather than therapy?

 

[jaap_stam]

No. I already explained my preference. I used science-based to contrast with normative socialization, and it does not refer exclusively to drugs. I don't see the point in putting brain chemistry in quotes. Do you believe that people with mental health issues are just choosing to be how they are, and if they just got their act together would be all better? If so, there's no point in continuing the conversation.