Illegal Immigrants allowed to stay???

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Relentless Original, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. D_Relentless Original

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    Rally demands 500,000 illegal immigrants be allowed to stay| News | This is London

    Half a million illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay in Britain under an "earned amnesty", it has been suggested
    The call was made at a rally in London attended by Labour MPs, church leaders and trade union bosses.
    They believe anyone who has been living here illegally for four years – such as failed asylum seekers and visa overstayers – should be given a two-year work permit.
    After that time they would be legally allowed to stay, provided they passed an English language test, had a job and no criminal record.
    Later, they could apply for citizenship-The Home Office has no firm figures on the number of illegal immigrants in the UK, but estimates range from 450,000 up to 870,000.
    This is like a reward for not being caught. Am i the only one outraged by this? and to be given a two year work permit too?, what are these people thinking?

    Opinions please?
     
  2. bigbull29

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    Maybe Switzerland and Austria can take them. They're very welcoming of immigrants (Scandinavian countries as well).

    Why is always the US, Canada, Britain, Germany, etc who have to deal with immigration issues, and other industrialized countries just sit back and judge, or show nonchalence.
     
  3. Onslow

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    It may seem outlandish or outrageous at first but stop and think about it. These men and women have been there, many getting jobs and not paying taxes which means the citizens have to pay taxes and lose out on jobs which go to these men and women because the people who hire them are happy not to have to pay as high a wage or get cauught in the annoyance of tax documents.

    Thei idea of a two year work permit followed by testing, employment and criminal background will probably force some out. For those who meet the requuirements, they can become vital and openly active members of the community.

    The US has done a few group amnestys a notable was the 1986 Immigration and Reform Control Act where more than two and a half million were offered the chance.

    Currently there are those pushing for another amnesty which would be aimed at upwards of ten miillion, possibly as many as 20 milliion: US Immigration Amnesty {Google search for more links}

    The benefits of amnesty are many, including that as soon as the application process starts they can become tax payers. They can contribute openly to the community instead of hiding to avoid the law and being sent back to whereever which in some cases might be as the same as killing them.
     
  4. Holistic_Harry

    Holistic_Harry New Member

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    Short term it is good, but long term it causes more problems than it solves. If you give out amnesties once then illegals will come in larger and larger numbers expecting to stay till a future amnesty gives them their landed immigrant status. It is a matter of being cruel to be kind or being kind to be cruel.
     
  5. midlifebear

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    I've got a great idea. The UK should build a 25 foot double fence completely around the British Isles hiring mostly illegal immigrants to construct it. After all, this "brilliant" plan has worked so well in the USA. :smile:
     
  6. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    We need real guest workers programs that are equitable for the workers and the hosting country.

    The Islamization of Europe and the latinization of N. America have been a net negative.
     
  7. midlifebear

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    Yeah, all those contractors building slews of new homes really suffered from hiring illegal construction workers from Mexico and Central America before the US economy tanked. All that money they saved by cutting corners because they didn't have to pay a fair and equitable hourly wage to all the illegals. Such a pity. I feel sooooooo sorry for them. Makes me almost want to cry. :smile:
     
  8. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Re-post:We need real guest workers programs that are equitable for the workers and the hosting country.

    Really can't hear, can you?:smile:

    You do realize I'm talking about the cultural effects?
     
  9. midlifebear

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    Sorry, I was washing my hair. I'll take it all back. Honest. As long as you realize I'm not a sponge on the Spanish health care system. Deal? :smile:
     
  10. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Deal.:smile:
     
  11. dandelion

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    Nah, we built a moat all around the country. Worked fine iuntil they invented aeroplanes and dug a tunnell...
     
  12. dandelion

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    Which means to say we ought to fix the tax inspections system so they cant get work without the correct papers. If theyre taking black market jobs they still arent going to pay tax even if they are entitled to be here.

    People have argued that immigrants benefit the economy but the truth is they are pretty much neutral. They dont earn much even if you tax them. They have to live somewhere, eat, use resources, maybe even have a family here going to school using health and school services. If not, they send the money back home wherever they came from and it leaves the british economy.

    See that documentary last night about immigrant workers? It made a couple of points. One was, 'if we didnt have cheap immigrant labour we would have to buy machines to do the work they do'. So not losing any UK jobs there, but also the immigrants are not essential. We might be better off getting some machines and hiring a british engineer to look after it. Then there were a couple of british guys who they said actually applied for the jobs normally done by immigrants which they had tried out in the program, but were told there were no vacancies.

    The main point they made was that there were just about the same number of unemployed in the town as immigrant labourers. Several of the Brits who tried doing their jobs were terrible at it, but they only got three days trial. By the end they were getting better. One of the farmers made a telling point, which was afterwards put to a politician on newsnight, that unemployment regulations meant it was impossible for someone to just work a few weeks casual without getting a lot of hassle from the unemployment people. Just easier not to do it. The politician ducked answering why this was.

    I think the guys they persuaded to appear on TV trying out immigrant jobs were pretty brave. You cant help wondering if the best of them decided the last thing they wanted to do was appear on national TV being unemployed and humiliated because they didnt know what they were supposed to be doing which all these immigrants were doing effortlessly.

    Someone said, if you give an amnesty it just encourages more to come.

    which is a question of allowing them to stay because they are being persecuted back home, which we do already.

    On the whole the Uk population does not like immigration. Any politician who says otherwise is not telling the truth. Why do they think extreme right wing parties are becoming popular? It is not because the country is rabidly right wing. Even moderates who really dont mind what colour their neighbours are think we dont want more immigrants of any sort. Mainstream politicians are ignoring the will of the people over this.
     
  13. D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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    Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
    Something to consider even if you don't live in California

    Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

    Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically
    productive for the State of California ...

    You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2
    parents, 2 children and live in California. "Joe Legal" works in
    construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with
    payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has
    "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

    Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per
    year.

    Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

    Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per
    year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

    Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00
    per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

    Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and
    local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

    Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare.
    Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe
    Legal now has $7,231.00

    Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and
    Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month. $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal
    is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00

    Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal
    pays rent. $500.00 per month. $6,000.00 per year Jose Illegal still has
    $31,200.00

    Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
    work.

    Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

    Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
    Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a
    government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school
    ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

    Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services,
    but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

    Don't vote/support any politician that supports illegal aliens...Its PAST
    time to take a stand for America and Americans!
     
  14. midlifebear

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    Interesting, another white 'Mericuhn male in his 30s. I see your lips (figuratively) flapping, but if the Joe versus Joe analysis were a Detroit-designed engine, its pistons would misfire so bad you'd never get the automobile to start. Anyone else understand the irony in this observation besides me? Anyone?
     
  15. Industrialsize

    Industrialsize Retired Moderator
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    Please expound on these "negative" cultural effects.
     
  16. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    It would probably cost less just to let them get visas than to keep chasing them. let alone we can get those chasing them to be put to better use.

    Instead of getting mad at allowing the Immigrants who are working to get visas (i assume there would be some regulations to get it i.e having a job), maybe we should look at those British people who refuse to work when able and sponge of the state. Get them to take up jobs and there will be none for immigrants. Not saying it will stop them coming, but it might put a few off.
     
  17. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    The only negative i see to both is that it fuels ignorant people.
     
  18. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Being of hispanic descent I can categorically state that I experience more racism today than in the late 80's or 90's because of large presence of illegals. Negative cultural effect.

    Hispanics in this country - be they citizens or not - are not graduating from high school at a 50% rate. In a future contingent on advanced studies this makes hispanics a huge burden. Negative cultural effect.

    The number of hispanics is assuring us of a future in which we may well see secessionist movements similar or possibly more powerful than examples of the Quebuecois in Canada or the Basgues in Spain or any number of similar places. Negative cultural effect.

    In order to satisfy greed Americans for greater profits from cheaper labor have created a culture of corruption that did not exist before. Not that there was no corruption before but there is more now. Negative cultural effect.

    The FBI having largely eradicated certain types of crime (i.e. kidnapping) is now seeing a resurgence. Kidnapping for ransom is endemic in latin America and its working its way up here. Negative cultural effect.

    El Salvadoran gangs having learned their violence in El Salvador (thanks to Uncle Sam) and on the mean streets of L.A. are spreading that violence even into rural America. Negative cultural effect.

    I go to Home Depot and because of bizarre PC'ness find myself unable to read instructions on product labels because both English and Spanish are printed. Printed so tiny to fit both that it is worse than legal small print. Negative cultural effect.

    Women used and abused like condoms (i.e . raped and burned) is a common crime on the U.S. Mexican border. It is a cultural crime that is now showing up north of the border. Negative cultural effect.

    The number of hit and runs committed by hispanics (drunk and afraid of their illegal status compromising them) has increased alarmingly. Negative cultural effect.

    Cheap labor undermining the development of new technologies has also been a negative cultural effect.

    The number of illegals using emergency care and thereby driving up costs has also been a negative cultural effect.

    Illegals taking jobs from blacks with prison records has also been a negative cultural effect.

    Illegals taking jobs from unionized native New Orleans during its reconstruction has been a negative cultural effect.

    The Islamization of Europe has been very similar.

    No me digas que soy racista porque yo soy hispano y entiendo la verdad.
     
    #18 B_spiker067, Feb 25, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  19. midlifebear

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    Lástima, chico, pero eres racista. El hecho que eres hispano no muestra nada. Todavía eres una de las más personas pesadas tuvimos que sufrir aca.

    Y buenas suerte con esa
    . :smile:
     
  20. ericbythebay

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    Let me get this straight, a group of people with no criminal record have enough motivation and skill to come into the country by creative means, stay out of trouble, get jobs, and want to stay permanently; and we should kick them out? Why?

    If anything, we should promote a work exchange program, send our citizens on welfare to live in their country, the money would go a lot further, and let their people that want to work, come to our country to work.

    In the US we don't hear much about the Canadian illegals coming across the border. Is it coincidental that in the US and much of Europe the "illegal" (sodomy used to be illegal too) immigrants that get targeted are from visibly identifiable minority groups?