The "Fiscal Cliff"

[Jason]

You take your Thatcherism and you just get out, get out I say!

Just as an aside, are there any territories off the coast of South America that the U.S. can send a flotilla towards and take off your hands for a month or two? Sort of a time-share deal?

Falklands oil is an interesting one. We're not yet clear how much there is and whether its commercial, especially as the technology for very deep water drilling needs more development. But let's imagine for a moment that there are enormous reserves of oil there which can be exploited - which is potentially the case.

Co-operation with Argentina seems unlikely. Instead the scenario is that oil is piped to the Falklands, refined there, and put in tankers to markets. UK-US co-operation may be an option.

 

[sillystring]

Falklands oil is an interesting one. We're not yet clear how much there is and whether its commercial, especially as the technology for very deep water drilling needs more development. But let's imagine for a moment that there are enormous reserves of oil there which can be exploited - which is potentially the case.

Co-operation with Argentina seems unlikely. Instead the scenario is that oil is piped to the Falklands, refined there, and put in tankers to markets. UK-US co-operation may be an option.

Finally, a true war for oil! If we can cement this deal the U.S. is willing to fund a re-make of "The Iron Lady" that doesn't make Mrs. Thatcher look quite so....I really don't know what the word is I'm looking for. It's not flattering, I know that much.

All strategic sheep capabilities in the Falklands will continue to remain the sole possession of the UK.

 

[Manirt]

This is a debt crisis - the idea of investing or spending to get out of it is a fallacy. The global economy has hit the limits of what Keynesian economics can do.

The USA isn't experiencing a "debt crisis". Neither is Japan. Neither is the UK. Neither is Singapore. All high debt countries, absolutely no crisis due to the virtue of monetary sovereignty. You're making an issue here where none exists.

A "debt crisis" is one where you're having difficulty finding lenders offering reasonable interest rates. The US/Japan/Singapore/UK are all being offered negative real interest rates - in no way is that a debt crisis.

The key is that the USA has to demonstrate that every year its tax take exceeds its expenditure plus debt income.

Why? The US has only made a concerted effort to do that seven times in its history, and every single time it's resulted in a recession immediately after. Why do you insist we try it again? Why do you look at negative interest lending and go "clearly we need to run a balanced budget"?

 

[deleted15807]

Fiscal Cliff Scare Talk Follows Shock Doctrine Script

Don't Fall for the Right's "Fiscal Cliff" Hysteria

 

[slurper_la]

10 People Who Led Us To The Fiscal Cliff

 

[AtomicMouse1950]

10 People Who Led Us To The Fiscal Cliff

Great article thanks for researching that.

 

[h0neymustard]

Thankfully Obama is pulling us from the brink, a trillion dollars at a time.

 

[deleted15807]

10 People Who Led Us To The Fiscal Cliff

Key point:

• Tax cuts don’t pay for themselves. Tax cuts are a major cause of our $16 trillion national debt.

But don't tell that to the GOP/Tea Party. Facts like this don't matter. It's tax cuts for all seasons and war as well. I do believe they are executing Grover Norquist's master plan of drowning the government. They're just not honest about their desire to sink it to the public.

My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub.
Grover Norquist​

 

[h0neymustard]

I'm not even going to post an explanation.

 

[balsary]

I'm not even going to post an explanation.

Something to be thankful for.

 

[JTalbain]

http://www.fundmasteryblog.com/wp-c...enue-chart-ed-ah556b_ranso_20080519194014.gif
I'm not even going to post an explanation.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/taxreceipts.JPG
There's another chart for you to look at. Hauser's Law is propaganda, pure and simple. The reason? It is only looking at the maximum tax rate between time periods, not the effective tax rate of the population. Depending on the economic distribution and situation at the time, it is entirely possible to have the effective tax rate of the population be exactly the same when one era has a 90% maximum tax rate and the other has a 40% maximum. All that proves is that the effective tax rate has changed very little.

 

[AtomicMouse1950]

Thankfully Obama is pulling us from the brink, a trillion dollars at a time.

Actually in 2011, Congress knocked off a Trillion dollars off the budget. So yeah, for now, you're right. And we move forward to dropping more off.

 

[TheBestYouCan]

AtomicMouse, all I see from you is finger pointing at the GOP. While I have problems with both parties, realize, please, that the Dems have done their fair share of spending. DEBT spending.

The reality is, America is never going to reduce it's debt to a manageable level. We will default and completely devalue the dollar eventually. So far all *cuts* by congress are cuts in proposed INCREASES in spending. Not current spending... We project to spend 10 billion more in so so area next year, we are cutting that by 1 billion. Therefore we had spending cuts of 1 billion. That type of cutting does not help anyone.

The problem is that every aspect of government spending is precious to someone. Do we need to raise taxes? Yes. Do we need to cut real spending, deeply? Yes. Is the extent that we need to do both to make real progress towards lowering our debt really understood by most people? No. As a previous poster said, we have lived a charmed life here as our dollar is the reserve currency of the world. FIAT money has been a failure and, like it or not, NEITHER party in power is really looking or offering any solutions to the problem. They are crying over 100 billion in cuts... 100 BILLION. That's nothing close to what needs to be cut.

Our only hope is that, *somehow* government is held responsible by voters who educate themselves on the economy and economics, massive tax increases and government spending cuts are implemented (entire bureaucracies are wiped out) and we grow our way out with energy exports. None of that will happen.

 

[deleted213967]

http://www.fundmasteryblog.com/wp-c...enue-chart-ed-ah556b_ranso_20080519194014.gif
I'm not even going to post an explanation.

I really need to research that 90% post-war marginal rate.

What was the thinking at the time, ironically near the height of anti-communist sentiment?

I know that the 90% rate was largely symbolic, since so few taxpayers "qualified", and that the targeted taxpayers had an array of tools to circumvent its impact, but still, as a matter of policy, 90% is truly puzzling for the US.

 

[AtomicMouse1950]

Pressing BuzzFeed about the true edge of the fiscal cliff - Full Court Press with Bill Press // Current TV

 

[NewAgeMan]

atomic mouse is in his own little perfect world where all liberals are saints and all republicans are the devil and there is no one in between. you either love obama, or you hate womens rights and gays. its a heavily indoctrinated overly simplistic world view. he says that only republicans are repsponsible for robbing the middle class, while in the real world, obama is allowing the endless inflation of our currency and taking away more of our natural rights every day.

 

[Fuzzy_]

So President Barack Obama has to make a decision, almost immediately, about how to deal with continuing Republican obstruction. How far should he go in accommodating the GOP's demands?

My answer is, not far at all. Obama should hang tough, declaring himself willing, if necessary, to hold his ground even at the cost of letting his opponents inflict damage on a still-shaky economy. And this is definitely no time to negotiate a "grand bargain" on the budget that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

Video: How Democrats Really Debate.

 

[cruztbone]

new age man is still in denial about the election results. when he finally comes out of the coma, he will finally realize that Obama won the election and the Dems gained seats in both the house and the senate. a number of tea party turds are now toast, and the GOP is in civil war . oh, and Grover Norquist is merely a shadow of his former pompous , egotistical self. i guess news doesnt travel fast to parts of the middle west.

 

[deleted15807]

is anyone still listening to him? Tisk. When we go into 9/11 conspiracy twilight zone it's time to hit mute. Forever.

 

[Bardox]

Taxes are going up on the upper 2% regardless of what is done about the "cliff". Be it going off the cliff or republicans agreeing to a deal, it's going to happen. Whether or not the rest of us get hit will be completely up to the right. Spin it however you like, that's just the way it's going to play. The only real question right now is will fear of losing re-election prevent the right from agreeing to a compromise. There's a deal to be made here. Are they going to make the deal or not?

I think an agreement could be reached, if it were just Boehner and Obama, in under a day. This would not even be a real issue. The problem is Boehner doesn't have the level of control of his party that the speaker usually does. He has to pacify the tea party republicans and rest of the republicans in the party. And I differentiated between tea party republicans and republicans. Tea party republicans will scream blood murder over any tax hike regardless of what they get in return. A republican will accept that hike if it means getting 2 or 3 other things on the table.

I give it a 60-40 chance of going off the cliff. Even if we go off the cliff there will be plenty of time to make a new deal before any real consequences take effect. So chill the fuck out and try not to freak just yet people.