war against terror

[Perados]

Where do get terrorists get trained?

Afghanistan
Pakistan
Iraq
Lybia
Jemen

3 of these states been attacked by the west, to fight the terror or change the regime
1 gets attacked from time to time by the west, even if its an official partner of the west
1 is a failed state under controlle of the west

The question comes up, since 9/11, did the war on terror helped to stop the terror or did it supported the terror?

 

[mister_1973]

big fail, we should be fighting the origin nations of terror, Iran and the Saudis. They choose each time a different weak country to fight there dirty war. If suni and shia will make peace i assume terror will drop with 95 percent. Sadly enough most people think that if Jews will stop building houses in Jerusalem then peace will come, the world needs to wake up.

 

[vince]

The war on terror, the way it's been conducted has been the best recruitment tool Islamic radicals could have wished for. With the mistaken and unprovoked attack on Iraq by the US and UK, the drone attacks in which many innocents have been killed, the illegal detention/torture camps, and allying with the fundamentalist Wahhabi regime in SA and so on, we look pretty bad.

There probably have been some successfully foiled attacks, but overall it looks like the WoT has been a failure. There are more terrorist members and organizations than there were before 9/11, more failed states and more despair, fear and anger in the world.

Of course one should ask what are the objectives of the WoT, before answering. Because it may be that the actual purpose is in fact despair, fear and anger.

But from the perspective of us supposedly good guys, it looks like the War on Terror is turning out to be as successful as the War on Drugs has been.

 

[vince]

big fail, we should be fighting the origin nations of terror, Iran and the Saudis. They choose each time a different weak country to fight there dirty war. If suni and shia will make peace i assume terror will drop with 95 percent. Sadly enough most people think that if Jews will stop building houses in Jerusalem then peace will come, the world needs to wake up.

The Israelis are just as big a part of the problem as everyone else. Stopping kidding yourself and trying to bullshit the rest of us.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

... from the perspective of us supposedly good guys, it looks like the War on Terror is turning out to be as successful as the War on Drugs has been.

Hmmmm. Worth thinking about.
The analogy seems, at least in terms of effectiveness, pretty exact.

 

[rbkwp]

it sure is a far different story when a Co-alition member Country comes under attack, thats for sure ..
lone wolf individuals not Military might! a story in itself ..
just as effective when on minimal lives, but plays on the emotions all persons something terrible no doubt about that ..

 

[Perados]

Mister 1976, you really think even more war would be the answer? Isnt it more like, that an attack on iran and saudi arabia (and you would have to attack the united arabian emirats as well) would create even more fsiled states anf opportunities for terrorists?

Just think about what happened since the first intervention of the usa in iran - iran was a democracy were state and religions was seperated. Now we have a religios dictation.
About saudi arabia and UAE - to stop the support and delivery of weapons, just as to bevome indeoendent from their oil should be enough.


About the war on drugs... i see it as a full success. The intention never was to stop drug deliveries. And now, this war is the biggest market for the american weapon industry. There is no larger costumer as the drug mafia

 

[Jason]

The war on terror has been ineffective. It is difficult to know if matters would be better or worse now without it. What might be useful is to look at an effective campaign against terror and see what lessons can be learnt - Northern Ireland.

In Northern Ireland the process had three key stages:
* The primary terrorist group IRA became convinced that they could not win the insurgency, in effect that (while they could always murder a few more people) they had lost the war.
* The terrorist group and their political wing were in effect isolated by the Anglo-Irish agreement and the referendum in Ireland removing their constitutional claim to Northern Ireland. It became apparent to everyone, even them, that their view was that of a minority.
* The terrorists got a lot of what they wanted. This is the one that really upsets people. In Northern Ireland we have a special governmental structure which pretty well guarantees that the political wing of the terrorists will be in government, though they have of course repudiated terrorism.

Applying this to Islamic terror I suggest:
* The terrorists have to be on the retreat everywhere, so there does have to be a military dimension.
* Mainstream Islam has to reject the terrorists. This is the hardest aspect as it involves a religious development of Islam in order to establish equal rights for women, an end to the barbarity of Sharia and an acceptance of non-Moslems, and that non-Moslems may not respect their prophet.
* The world does have to give radical Islam some aspects of what they want, including political power.

 

[Boobalaa]

I'll write more later, but "Since 9/11, Has "The War on "Terror"" aleiviated or exasperated "Terror"?
look up how many US citizens are on the "Terror Watch List"
There is even a website,
"trackinterrorism.org"
http://www.trackingterrorism.org/
Now, pull out a map of the Middle East and Africa, as you look up where all the ongoing and latest Oil Exploration is. now look up a list for USA Military Bases. You'll recognize a pattern.
The newest terrorist groups in Africa are around the same places where natural resources are being exploited by multinational corporations and/or foreign nations, i.e. China .
You'll notice another pattern on the tracking terrorism site; Mostly all of the "Terrorist Groups" follow a radical "Salifi" sect of Islam. This is ALWAYS mentioned in the FIRST sentence! HMMMMMMM..
Now pull out a colonial map of Africa and the Middle East, look at who the USA is allies with, where the TERROIST's are and where Oil Exploitation is happening.
..ask yourself, "Why does the USA keep adding names to its "Terrorist List?
Answer#1; Because these "Terrorist Groups" are nothing but citizens of the "host countries" who are resisting the intervening, exploitation of their countries natural resources, government institutions, social institutions by multinational corporations backed by the western controlled IMF and a World Bank which "uses" the "U.S. Military" and it's own Police Force, as Saudi Arabia supplies the "reason for being" and other support under the guise of Islam. The people who do not want to play by the foreigners rules are labeled "Terrorists".
It makes for an "easy to understand" good vs. evil scenario for the American Public to understand as they sit in front of their 55" screens watching 125 channels of "entertainment" every night as they multitask on their iPad and iPhone, checking out Facebook, Instagram, snapchat etc..
" What ever you do people, "Don't Think, just go shopping instead."
"Keep the Faith, Worship your Beliefs, and revel in your Exceptionalism" "what ever you do, never question your government, "Trust Us" instead".

 

[Boobalaa]

The war on terror has been ineffective. It is difficult to know if matters would be better or worse now without it. What might be useful is to look at an effective campaign against terror and see what lessons can be learnt - Northern Ireland.

In Northern Ireland the process had three key stages:
* The primary terrorist group IRA became convinced that they could not win the insurgency, in effect that (while they could always murder a few more people) they had lost the war.
* The terrorist group and their political wing were in effect isolated by the Anglo-Irish agreement and the referendum in Ireland removing their constitutional claim to Northern Ireland. It became apparent to everyone, even them, that their view was that of a minority.
* The terrorists got a lot of what they wanted. This is the one that really upsets people. In Northern Ireland we have a special governmental structure which pretty well guarantees that the political wing of the terrorists will be in government, though they have of course repudiated terrorism.

Applying this to Islamic terror I suggest:
* The terrorists have to be on the retreat everywhere, so there does have to be a military dimension.
* Mainstream Islam has to reject the terrorists. This is the hardest aspect as it involves a religious development of Islam in order to establish equal rights for women, an end to the barbarity of Sharia and an acceptance of non-Moslems, and that non-Moslems may not respect their prophet.
* The world does have to give radical Islam some aspects of what they want, including political power.

Sir you never address, "What made these people "Terrorists" in the first place?"
Answer#1; The British made these people Terrorists in the way The British treated them.

 

[thirteenbyseven]

Speaking of...Fox News is having an orgasm over the shoot-out in France. The full military might of France were pitted against two stereotypical made-for-propaganda muslim brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi and a good-buddy of theirs that went into a Jewish deli for a pastrami sandwich and hostages. Naturally he ended up really most sincerely dead as well. But because it was a Kosher market, the media is going bonkers over the anti-semitic angle of this terrorist story. So much for the Kouachi brothers being a highly-trained and armed terrorist army.

How the hell did two guys in a Citroen call for a response of 90,000 French police and paramilitary soldiers? To put those numbers in perspective, this is about 62% of the total that stormed the beaches of Normandy in 1944. And they still haven't captured the Kosher supermarket terrorist's girlfriend, Nayat Boumediene.

I'm trying to grasp parallels in American history. Way back in 1974 there was a group that called themselves the Symbionese Liberation Army. It was headed by an African-American fellow from Cleveland named Donald DeFreeze or Donald DeepFreeze. It wasn't so much an army as a rag-tag platoon of a half-dozen nut-cases including a kidnapped heiress turned member named Patty Hurst. Their motto was good sex and bad drugs were the hallmarks of a great civilization as they whomped and stomped their way from small-time California robbery to robbery.

Eventually the SLA was caught in a run-down house in beautiful south-central L.A. with half the available police from San Diego to Eureka surrounding it. Like their Parisian counterparts, the "Symbionese Zees" and their collection of pea shooters were no match for California's finest, some of whom may have also stormed the beaches of Normandy. In the blink of an eye the house was obliterated, Donald DeepFreeze was sent in a body bag back to Cleveland and Patty Hurst was sent packing back to daddy after getting de-programmed from the Stockholm Syndrome. The world was safe again for democracy and apple pie.

 

[rbkwp]

related

recall this report coming out as well ..
rather let Global Research give its opinion
theyre more akin to my line of thinking ..

The command headquarters operating out of the US Embassy in Baghdad has been overseeing the US military airdrops of war supplies to our purported latest enemy in various provinces througThout Iraq. Back in October the US lied about an accidental dropping of supplies that went to the Islamic State jihadists instead of to the Kurds. he strategy in Iraq is to prolong the “war” against ISIL in order to ensure that permanent US military bases there get established,


Just As The Islamic State (ISIL) Gets Exposed As A Fake US Enemy, A “Wag the Dog” Terrorist Attack in Paris?

By Joachim Hagopian
Global Research, January 08, 2015
Url of this article:
Just As The Islamic State (ISIL) Gets Exposed As A Fake US Enemy, A “Wag the Dog” Terrorist Attack in Paris? | Global Research


addit
and did not the O stand there sickly blank War torn un Nobel peace prize face proclaiming
'there will be no boots on the ground'

US proxy war in Syria against Bashir al Assad’s forces and then seven months ago when ISIL invaded Iraq, it created the perfect excuse to deploy once again US troops on the ground in Iraq,

 

[Jjz1109]

related

recall this report coming out as well ..
rather let Global Research give its opinion
theyre more akin to my line of thinking ..

The command headquarters operating out of the US Embassy in Baghdad has been overseeing the US military airdrops of war supplies to our purported latest enemy in various provinces througThout Iraq. Back in October the US lied about an accidental dropping of supplies that went to the Islamic State jihadists instead of to the Kurds. he strategy in Iraq is to prolong the “war” against ISIL in order to ensure that permanent US military bases there get established,


Just As The Islamic State (ISIL) Gets Exposed As A Fake US Enemy, A “Wag the Dog” Terrorist Attack in Paris?

By Joachim Hagopian
Global Research, January 08, 2015
Url of this article:
Just As The Islamic State (ISIL) Gets Exposed As A Fake US Enemy, A “Wag the Dog” Terrorist Attack in Paris? | Global Research


addit
and did not the O stand there sickly blank War torn un Nobel peace prize face proclaiming
'there will be no boots on the ground'

US proxy war in Syria against Bashir al Assad’s forces and then seven months ago when ISIL invaded Iraq, it created the perfect excuse to deploy once again US troops on the ground in Iraq,

He proclaimed a lot of things, mate, that turned out to be lies. Join the club of the newly enlightened. No surprise to those of us who saw him in over his head from the get go.

Gotta love that Nobel peace prize, though!

 

[Jjz1109]

Speaking of...Fox News is having an orgasm over the shoot-out in France. The full military might of France were pitted against two stereotypical made-for-propaganda muslim brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi and a good-buddy of theirs that went into a Jewish deli for a pastrami sandwich and hostages. Naturally he ended up really most sincerely dead as well. But because it was a Kosher market, the media is going bonkers over the anti-semitic angle of this terrorist story. So much for the Kouachi brothers being a highly-trained and armed terrorist army.

How the hell did two guys in a Citroen call for a response of 90,000 French police and paramilitary soldiers? To put those numbers in perspective, this is about 62% of the total that stormed the beaches of Normandy in 1944. And they still haven't captured the Kosher supermarket terrorist's girlfriend, Nayat Boumediene.

I'm trying to grasp parallels in American history. Way back in 1974 there was a group that called themselves the Symbionese Liberation Army. It was headed by an African-American fellow from Cleveland named Donald DeFreeze or Donald DeepFreeze. It wasn't so much an army as a rag-tag platoon of a half-dozen nut-cases including a kidnapped heiress turned member named Patty Hurst. Their motto was good sex and bad drugs were the hallmarks of a great civilization as they whomped and stomped their way from small-time California robbery to robbery.

Eventually the SLA was caught in a run-down house in beautiful south-central L.A. with half the available police from San Diego to Eureka surrounding it. Like their Parisian counterparts, the "Symbionese Zees" and their collection of pea shooters were no match for California's finest, some of whom may have also stormed the beaches of Normandy. In the blink of an eye the house was obliterated, Donald DeepFreeze was sent in a body bag back to Cleveland and Patty Hurst was sent packing back to daddy after getting de-programmed from the Stockholm Syndrome. The world was safe again for democracy and apple pie.

And what exactly is your point? So what if the French called out all their big guns on this? Many experts have stated that future terrorist acts will be less grand, easier to slip through, wreaking more fear and terror. The challenge will therefore be trying to stop these acts before they occur. But what is wrong with brining out the mighty as a sign of force? You almost sound as if you were rooting for the little guys?

 

[Jason]

Sir you never address, "What made these people "Terrorists" in the first place?"
Answer#1; The British made these people Terrorists in the way The British treated them.

In the case of Northern Ireland, emphatically not. Irish independence grew out of the chaos of the First World War and went through a messy Civil War. The leading independence party, Sinn Fein, split into three: Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein. The first two are the major Irish political parties and decent parties. Sinn Fein was the rump and the political wing of terrorist IRA. It tried in the 1960s to resurrect the Civil War within Northern Ireland in its role as a Marxist terror group. The environment was unfortunate - it took a generation for the Republic of Ireland to get its response sorted, while the USA allowed IRA terrorists to be funded through NORAID. The Irish Republic and the USA are almost completely responsible for IRA. While no-one would look at British actions in NI and say nothing could have been done better it is also important to note that most of the time the insurgency was handled as well as can be imagined. There is no nice insurgency and no nice response.

We have resolved the issues in Northern Ireland in part through the Irish Republic changing their constitution, in part by the USA ruling that NORAID is an agent of the IRA providing money for terrorism (though still not stopping this funding of terrorists) and in part by giving political power to the former terrorists of Sinn Fein. We now speak of Sinn Fein, not Sinn Fein-IRA as on body. Personally I am sickened that people I regard as terrorist mass murderers (because of their direct and close involvement with terrorist mass murder, not some nebulous support) are now governing. But it's a whole lot better than the terrorist mass murders continuing. What the UK has done is the equivalent of giving one of the 9/11 bombers political power on New York city council. And it takes a lot of guts for a nation to go this far for peace. I'm proud of the achievement of the UK, an achievement unique in the modern world.

Getting terrorist issues ended is horrifically difficult and requires an enormous amount of work. The UK is so far the only nation in recent times to find a solution.

 

[Boobalaa]

Ok all very interesting..Thanks

 

[Perados]

Ok all very interesting..Thanks

Isnt it interesting how jason makes it look like nothing is britains fault and they always want the best for everyone? :wink:

 

[Perados]

I'll write more later, but "Since 9/11, Has "The War on "Terror"" aleiviated or exasperated "Terror"?
look up how many US citizens are on the "Terror Watch List"
There is even a website,
"trackinterrorism.org"
TRAC | Terrorism Research & Analysis Consortium
Now, pull out a map of the Middle East and Africa, as you look up where all the ongoing and latest Oil Exploration is. now look up a list for USA Military Bases. You'll recognize a pattern.
The newest terrorist groups in Africa are around the same places where natural resources are being exploited by multinational corporations and/or foreign nations, i.e. China .
You'll notice another pattern on the tracking terrorism site; Mostly all of the "Terrorist Groups" follow a radical "Salifi" sect of Islam. This is ALWAYS mentioned in the FIRST sentence! HMMMMMMM..
Now pull out a colonial map of Africa and the Middle East, look at who the USA is allies with, where the TERROIST's are and where Oil Exploitation is happening.
..ask yourself, "Why does the USA keep adding names to its "Terrorist List?
Answer#1; Because these "Terrorist Groups" are nothing but citizens of the "host countries" who are resisting the intervening, exploitation of their countries natural resources, government institutions, social institutions by multinational corporations backed by the western controlled IMF and a World Bank which "uses" the "U.S. Military" and it's own Police Force, as Saudi Arabia supplies the "reason for being" and other support under the guise of Islam. The people who do not want to play by the foreigners rules are labeled "Terrorists".
It makes for an "easy to understand" good vs. evil scenario for the American Public to understand as they sit in front of their 55" screens watching 125 channels of "entertainment" every night as they multitask on their iPad and iPhone, checking out Facebook, Instagram, snapchat etc..
" What ever you do people, "Don't Think, just go shopping instead."
"Keep the Faith, Worship your Beliefs, and revel in your Exceptionalism" "what ever you do, never question your government, "Trust Us" instead".

You are right. There are two things that support the terror against the west.
One thing is the war against and occupation of islamic nations. Something that many mosmels interpretate as a crusade.
The other one is the exploration of recources by the west and lately by china as well.
To guaranty this exploration, structures get installed who please us - these structures are useually extreme corrupt and create massive economocal disbalance (some name this economical collonisation). The wealth is in this case for the western nations and china and for a very small elite of the exploited nation. On the other hand has the majority to live in massive poverty, under political pressure

 

[554279]

Isnt it interesting how jason makes it look like nothing is britains fault and they always want the best for everyone? :wink:

It is just as interesting as how you paint all of the blame on the US and the UK at every turn.

Maybe the people of the US and the UK should just leave planet earth and move to another planet or give all of their personal possessions to whomever you deem worthy and pay reparations to every country on the planet for the next 50 million years. Would that level the playing field for you (no probably not).

I would accuse you of being a racists, however the US and the UK are not a single people from a single country (which would probably be much more convenient for the likes of haters like yourself).

Your effort to come across as though you are on some type of moral high ground or as an even handed player is ludicrous at best. Your propaganda is vomit worthy.

You will never understand anyone's position but your own until a terrorist kills someone close to you or takes something away from you, merely for what you believe, the color of your skin or what you believe in.

 

[rbkwp]

absolutely no reason not to believe this
as valid as Obama or any Dictator standing there and making a speech/declaration, why not take note
and NO, im not stir mongering nor condoning it, just passing on Western media associated press info ..
we may not like it but there you go .. everything has consequences
no one person nor Countrie/s are going to come out on top no matter what ..


Charlie Hebdo terrorist shooting: Al-Qaeda says it directed Paris attack
Date
January 10, 2015 - 8:44AM

Members of al-Qaeda's branch in Yemen says the group directed the attack on the French magazine Charlie Hebdo.

A member of the Yemen branch says the group directed the attack against the French satirical magazine in Paris "as revenge for the honour" of Islam's Prophet Muhammad.

The member has provided a statement to The Associated Press in English saying "the leadership of AQAP directed the operations and they have chosen their target carefully".

He says the attack was in line with warnings from the late al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden to the West about "the consequences of the persistence in the blasphemy against Muslim sanctities".

He said the group delayed its declaration of responsibility for "security reasons."

He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the group's regulations.

more to come

AP