Watching porn and respecting women

temptotalk

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So if a man discriminates against a woman, that has nothing to do with a woman?

The attempts at shutting down half the threads in this section is getting extremely tiresome, especially when the subject is obviously relevant and placed in the right section... It's totally fine that the subject isn't something that interests you, but that certainly doesn't mean that it isn't relevant.

Yup. I can totally understand why the ladies post so infrequently.
 

LadyJesseQuinn

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so many wicked points in this thread, this is a very cool place

speaking for myself as a feminist (Third wave and onwards only please) and an adult producer I absolutely don't consider porn to be inherently disrespectful of women either. I wouldn't be possible for me to participate in it if I did. to me porn is like everything else humans create; some of it is intense, some boring, some creepy/disturbing, some of it is exquisite and those ascribed qualities are always in the eyes of the beholders

the objectification 'issue' always baffles me though, it doesn't make logical sense to me. When someone gets paid for or is admired for using their brain that's not considered dehumanizing, it's not someone 'objectifying' one's IQ. The only difference when it comes to the female body/sexuality is in the minds of those who are incapable of enjoying an aspect of someone's being without casting a whole bunch of their own misogynistic/madonna-whore crap on to the subject of their attraction. when I enjoy a hot chica for her hotness I'm still capable of assuming that's she's also a complex human being with inherent value (that complex humanity just happens to be temporarily over-shadowed by that azz), because I don't have those issues. Clearly none of y'all do either so the rest of the world needs to figure it out

it would be interesting to raise the OP's question to a bunch of 'conflicted about female sexuality' peeps and then follow that with the same question in relation to Femdom porn, wonder how much the responses would change
 

temptotalk

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c42500f3bcb6b254eeb6a8c9d58e5cc0.jpg
 

Guy-jin

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so many wicked points in this thread, this is a very cool place

speaking for myself as a feminist (Third wave and onwards only please) and an adult producer I absolutely don't consider porn to be inherently disrespectful of women either. I wouldn't be possible for me to participate in it if I did. to me porn is like everything else humans create; some of it is intense, some boring, some creepy/disturbing, some of it is exquisite and those ascribed qualities are always in the eyes of the beholders

the objectification 'issue' always baffles me though, it doesn't make logical sense to me. When someone gets paid for or is admired for using their brain that's not considered dehumanizing, it's not someone 'objectifying' one's IQ. The only difference when it comes to the female body/sexuality is in the minds of those who are incapable of enjoying an aspect of someone's being without casting a whole bunch of their own misogynistic/madonna-whore crap on to the subject of their attraction. when I enjoy a hot chica for her hotness I'm still capable of assuming that's she's also a complex human being with inherent value (that complex humanity just happens to be temporarily over-shadowed by that azz), because I don't have those issues. Clearly none of y'all do either so the rest of the world needs to figure it out

it would be interesting to raise the OP's question to a bunch of 'conflicted about female sexuality' peeps and then follow that with the same question in relation to Femdom porn, wonder how much the responses would change
I mostly agree with you except for the statements about how people aren't offended when they're objectified due to being smart.

We aren't talking about admiring a woman for having a hot body here. We are talking about thinking of a woman as a hot body. As a sex toy who exists to please men.

Plenty of people are employed in part or whole because they physically look attractive and that isn't inherently offensive or considered "objectification", either.

Quite a few brainiacs have felt the sting of objectification for being smart.

I've literally heard this said to someone, and not in a light hearted way: "It's a good thing you're smart or I wouldn't keep you around."

As a kid when suddenly the popular kids are all buddy buddy with you right before test time and then drop you like a bad penny right after grades are in?

I mean, no, these aren't as egregious or common as the shit that gets slung at women by the troglodytes in our society, but I'm just saying that it's not like there aren't plenty of other types of negative objectification going on.

They're just not as obviously tied to porn watching. Then again, I hear even now tons of people watch these walking brains slap buzzers every night on Jeopardy!
 

Doranq

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Male consumer of porn checking in.

Very sex positive, respect women, don't view them as just a slab of meat. Porn hasn't done anything negative to me other than eat up time I could be doing something else.... :3 but fapping is time well spent imo.


I don't think porn would be the issue. I think most people who disrespect women would have disrespected women even if porn wasn't around. I mean look how sexist/disrespectful/sex negative people were in the past. So i don't believe porn to be the issue. I beleive the issue lies with in the individual.


Just sayin.
 

LaFemme

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so many wicked points in this thread, this is a very cool place

speaking for myself as a feminist (Third wave and onwards only please) and an adult producer I absolutely don't consider porn to be inherently disrespectful of women either. I wouldn't be possible for me to participate in it if I did. to me porn is like everything else humans create; some of it is intense, some boring, some creepy/disturbing, some of it is exquisite and those ascribed qualities are always in the eyes of the beholders

the objectification 'issue' always baffles me though, it doesn't make logical sense to me. When someone gets paid for or is admired for using their brain that's not considered dehumanizing, it's not someone 'objectifying' one's IQ. The only difference when it comes to the female body/sexuality is in the minds of those who are incapable of enjoying an aspect of someone's being without casting a whole bunch of their own misogynistic/madonna-whore crap on to the subject of their attraction. when I enjoy a hot chica for her hotness I'm still capable of assuming that's she's also a complex human being with inherent value (that complex humanity just happens to be temporarily over-shadowed by that azz), because I don't have those issues. Clearly none of y'all do either so the rest of the world needs to figure it out

it would be interesting to raise the OP's question to a bunch of 'conflicted about female sexuality' peeps and then follow that with the same question in relation to Femdom porn, wonder how much the responses would change
We aren't talking about admiring a woman for having a hot body here. We are talking about thinking of a woman as a hot body. As a sex toy who exists to please men.

I mostly agree with you, LadyJ, but it's the brain part I struggle with a bit. We are our brains and anyone who needs to think while they work is getting paid for using it. And I'm far most accustomed to being "used" or admired for my brain than my hotness factor. I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars in education and keeping my knowledge level high.

However, I know what it feels like to be objectified, like GJ says "as a sex toy that exists to please men". My brain, all the things I know, everything that I am is unimportant. There can be this feeling of helplessness and anger, even fear in the face of being objectified. To know that nothing you say or do will make you 'real'. The only power in this situation is to comply, to say that you are in control of the situation by having sexual power. (The things you can make a man do!). But it's just a lie you tell yourself. Or at least it was for me. Because to those who objectify, you are just a piece of meat with a collection of holes.

Again, not everybody does that. Fortunately not in my realm of people, and we have some good thinkers here, too. I just don't really agree that objectifying for IQ is the same as in porn. Intelligence, IQ (whatever that's worth) and knowledge makes up who we are, not the ability to open wide and look good with our feet kicked back behind the ears. :)
 

AlteredEgo

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I don't know, Femmie. I think you and LadyJQ have given me something to think about. You're both making interesting distinctions on either side of that particular discussion. On the one hand, I know just what you mean about feeling a difference between being valued for your personhood, which resides in your mind, versus being valued only for your corporeal self, like a collection of appealing parts pleasantly arranged around your various holes. On the other hand, I am both of those things, my mind, and my body, though if I'm sought for my body, I prefer it to be sought for it both for its loveliness and the spirit it houses.
 

Guy-jin

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I don't know, Femmie. I think you and LadyJQ have given me something to think about. You're both making interesting distinctions on either side of that particular discussion. On the one hand, I know just what you mean about feeling a difference between being valued for your personhood, which resides in your mind, versus being valued only for your corporeal self, like a collection of appealing parts pleasantly arranged around your various holes. On the other hand, I am both of those things, my mind, and my body, though if I'm sought for my body, I prefer it to be sought for it both for its loveliness and the spirit it houses.
That's an elegant way to put it.

I think main difference between objectification and not is recognition of personhood. The type of physical objectification where a man thinks of a woman as a sex toy is absurdly common but also threatening as LaFemme described. I think that's why it strongly symbolizes the concept of objectification for a lot of people.

I also don't think porn causes people to think that way. I think, rather, people who think that way use porn as an excuse for their shitty behavior.
 

Betty_Cocker

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I agree guy... but I also believe that if you start out young with porn being your basic intro to sex ed. .. it can warp your mind.

I mean. .. look at some of the threads here. ... in ask a woman. ... if porn is your only outlet it can give you the wrong ideas about how to treat a woman during sex.

I don't think porn is bad... it can actually enhance a relationship, but I've talked with several young men here who haven't a clue how to make love to a lady bc all they have is porn ad a reference.
 
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deleted15807

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Today's porn is simply obscene, degrading to women and presents an extremely distorted view of sexuality. Today's porn in a land of abundant supply in an effort to stand goes to remarkable extremes to get noticed and seen. The roughness, the yanking of hair, the slapping, the holding of the woman's nose, all the spitting and cursing at each other. This was not the case in the golden days of porn. I can't attest to this as factual but I suspect the only way an 'actress' can get through these scenes is to be abusing some substance and/or had been the victim of some sort of horrific abuse in her childhood.
 
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TexanStar

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Today's porn is simply obscene, degrading to women and presents an extremely distorted view of sexuality. Today's porn in a land of abundant supply in an effort to stand goes to remarkable extremes to get noticed and seen. The roughness, the yanking of hair, the slapping, the holding of the woman's nose, all the spitting and cursing at each other. This was not the case in the golden days of porn. I can't attest to this as factual but I suspect the only way an 'actress' can get through these scenes is to be abusing some substance and/or had been the victim of some sort of horrific abuse in her childhood.

I have to disagree with this generalization. As someone who's been watching porn for decades, there's an abundance of really classy porn out there that was in scarce supply just ten years ago, let alone longer.

For sure, there is a lot of degrading, misogynistic porn out there, but that's catering to a specific audience. I certainly don't think it's what studios need to do to their films noticed. If you hit the more popular porn sites, and check what the most popular vids are from the last week, almost all of them fall into one of these categories
  • Big tits
  • Big asses
  • Big dicks
  • Big cumshots
I'm sure that really degrading stuff is out there (I pass by it here and there when out surfing), but I really don't see it as widespread or popular as you're concerned it is.
 
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Brisler

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I agree guy... but I also believe that if you start out young with porn being your basic intro to sex ed. .. it can warp your mind.

I mean. .. look at some of the threads here. ... in ask a woman. ... if porn is your only outlet it can give you the wrong ideas about how to treat a woman during sex.

I don't think porn is bad... it can actually enhance a relationship, but I've talked with several young men here who haven't a clue how to make love to a lady bc all they have is porn ad a reference.

I think a complex number variables cause people to grow into what is essentially practitioners of misogyny. I believe someone who has misogynistic tendencies will probably seek out misogynistic porn and that he may use it to justify or affirm said tendencies, just like a violent person may be attracted to violent video games. But I do not think that porn in and of itself creates misogynists just like I don't think video games creates violence. If people really don't have a clue how to be around other human beings without causing them harm (or even realize that they're causing them harm), we are looking at a much more complex social disability than anything that can be caused merely by watching porn, I think.

I was well aware of pornography before jumping on the vaginal merry-go-round, and I don't think any number of hours having watched porn could have caused me to think I was supposed to ram my egg roll down her esophagus while blocking her nostrils with something nasty.
 

TexanStar

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I think a complex number variables cause people to grow into what is essentially practitioners of misogyny. I believe someone who has misogynistic tendencies will probably seek out misogynistic porn and that he may use it to justify or affirm said tendencies, just like a violent person may be attracted to violent video games. But I do not think that porn in and of itself creates misogynists just like I don't think video games creates violence. If people really don't have a clue how to be around other human beings without causing them harm (or even realize that they're causing them harm), we are looking at a much more complex social disability than anything that can be caused merely by watching porn, I think.

I was well aware of pornography before jumping on the vaginal merry-go-round, and I don't think any number of hours having watched porn could have caused me to think I was supposed to ram my egg roll down her esophagus while blocking her nostrils with something nasty.

I dunno man. Certainly societal treatment of the other gender varies over time. And certainly from one culture to the next it's handled differently. I doubt you would argue it's genetic instinct and I think you would agree that they're taking those societal cues from somewhere.

So yes, I am inclined to support Betty's opinion that yes, for a lot of men, especially inexperienced / young men, the types of porn they're watching can influence what they feel is normal and how they approach intimacy (or lack thereof). Just because neither you nor I walked away feeling like we should try to make women choke on our dicks doesn't mean it's not having an influence on others.