Watching porn and respecting women

Notaes

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yes I think you can with one exception and I have never understood why A man wants to cum in a womans face. That is not respect. But yes I think you can to a degree until you cross over the line. I have never desired to do that and I think I am as sexual as most men. I think about it all the time!
 

little10ca

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yes I think you can with one exception and I have never understood why A man wants to cum in a womans face. That is not respect. But yes I think you can to a degree until you cross over the line. I have never desired to do that and I think I am as sexual as most men. I think about it all the time!

Different people like different things. I love giving facials, and some girls love getting them. If you have a cum fetish, it's not that crazy to think you would like to see your cum on your girls' face.
 

AlteredEgo

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yes I think you can with one exception and I have never understood why A man wants to cum in a womans face. That is not respect. But yes I think you can to a degree until you cross over the line. I have never desired to do that and I think I am as sexual as most men. I think about it all the time!
If my dude wants to jizz on my face he can. I have a thing for semen, and he has a thing for my pretty face, so why not? I'd prefer it inside me or on my breasts, and he's never expressed any interest in a facial, but if he wanted to, he could. The few men who wanted to seemed to be wanting to stake a claim, not disrespect me. Just do not get it in my eyes or hair; those are my boundaries.
 

LadyJesseQuinn

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We aren't talking about admiring a woman for having a hot body here. We are talking about thinking of a woman as a hot body. As a sex toy who exists to please men.

I mostly agree with you, LadyJ, but it's the brain part I struggle with a bit. We are our brains and anyone who needs to think while they work is getting paid for using it. And I'm far most accustomed to being "used" or admired for my brain than my hotness factor. I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars in education and keeping my knowledge level high.

However, I know what it feels like to be objectified, like GJ says "as a sex toy that exists to please men". My brain, all the things I know, everything that I am is unimportant. There can be this feeling of helplessness and anger, even fear in the face of being objectified. To know that nothing you say or do will make you 'real'. The only power in this situation is to comply, to say that you are in control of the situation by having sexual power. (The things you can make a man do!). But it's just a lie you tell yourself. Or at least it was for me. Because to those who objectify, you are just a piece of meat with a collection of holes.

I wanted to quote these portions of your post for emphasis. In my prior post I hope I didn't in any way imply that the effects (both psychological and tangible) of objectification aren't real. My central point was (perhaps obtusely) based on the fact that the only that the basis for that sort of attitudinal fuckery is predicated on a warped, shame-based view of sexuality that shouldn't exist in the first place. thank you so much for sharing that perspective, it's a hugely important one.

thank you both for your replies, this is such a wicked discussion. I guess the point I was trying to make was that people who can dehumanize someone simply because of their own issues are the problem, NOT the material they consume. There's a really wicked commentary by John Berger about a painting by Hans Memling that illustrates the point I'm trying to make far more effectively than I could:

You painted a naked woman because you enjoyed looking at her, put a mirror in her hand and you called the painting “Vanity,” thus morally condemning the woman whose nakedness you had depicted for you own pleasure.

The point being that men who are warped will be warped regardless of what they consume. Men who hate women will hate us even if they watch nothing stronger than Mr Rogers reruns. Like Berger illustrated, this ish has a lengthy history (the painting is circa 1485). I'm for laws and social norms that make it clear that misogyny (and let's face it, that's what we're talking about here) is abhorrent and will not be tolerated, because to me that's the root of the problem. No one 'group' on this planet should have the power or social freedom to dominate, abuse or exploit another, if we ever get there porn would be a non-issue. *I could never be with anyone who was into FacialAbuse though, facials are awesome but that site is sick as fuck*

One quick point I'd like to make, not at all negating the ish women of all social race groups and econ stratas experience, is that in terms of North America at least one study demonstrates that Black men report the highest levels of workplace sexual harassment. I just finished an 18 hour workday so doing JStor-fu to find the study feels exhausting right now, but I'll find the study and post the link when I come up for air. The point is 'objectification' is not real in it's consequences only for women.

On the other hand, I am both of those things, my mind, and my body, though if I'm sought for my body, I prefer it to be sought for it both for its loveliness and the spirit it houses.


(skip to 1:10 for my point, I suck at new-forum embed code) "Beautifully fucking illustrated"

for real, this ish shouldn't be this complicated to solve, right? what you're asking for, what anyone who inhabits an inherently sexual, female body, anyone with a human body with all of the inherent value attached to that asks for isn't that arduous. I deeply pity anyone who can't relate to what each of you has written above. They are a dying breed though, or at least the numbers are starting to dwindle to the core believers. In the meantime focus on legal/social barriers to protect the rest of us and shame them into social complacency.

a sincere, non-loaded question, do you feel porn objectifies men in an unethical way? If not to me that would indicate that misogyny itself is the issue, not adult material itself

for real, such a cool place.
 

LadyJesseQuinn

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gah, I went out for a smoke break (I'm trying to quit so I only smoke outside now) and missed the post edit window

one thing I wanted to address vis a vis the very real issue of dudes being raised on depictions of porn and not understanding how to relate to a real woman:

I honestly wonder how satisfying the sexual lives in general of women 100 years ago in North America were. Think about it, the narratives were completely designed by men, female sexuality was something to be feared as a broad social norm and as a result men's views of sexual relations were shaped by other men. that's changing, and I honestly believe that porn has helped paved the way for acceptance of female sexuality if only through depicting it. that's what most peeps wanted in the first place, I assume. yes idiots who aren't interested in connecting ethically with another human being will miss out on something awesome, point is they would anyways. the rest of us get to engage in something normal and healthy that enhances our lives and our relationships if both peeps are on the same plane. No harm, no foul.

at least todays peeps have access to real info about how to please a partner, at least guys (and chicas!!!) going through their sexually-formative years have access to content that frames sexuality as something normal and healthy.

point is, if some peeps choose to eschew real human interaction in all it's delicious, messy complexity for a static fantasy they're part of the problem, not the material itself.

I'm drunk posting at this point (been a really long day) so Ima head out to dance my azz off before I embarrass myself. y'all rock.
 
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Brisler

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I agree with Jesse. I think porn is an easy scapegoat for a symptom that's much, much older than the porn industry. I am not trying to defend porn as such, as I think much porn works to maintain the problem, but I just don't think it's a problem that stems from porn. I don't think men in the 1940's had any more of an idea on how to "treat a lady in bed" than they do today (on the contrary, probably). I know that this is a dubious comparison at best, as many a civil and women's rights movement has fought to make things better for women since then. But the point is that female sexuality hasn't had a voice until very recently. The female sexuality has only been allowed to exist as a product of child bearing, and when suggested otherwise it has been publicly demonized to the point of torture and murder. I am absolutely sure that what we see in some types of porn is a continuation of similar demonization. It's a deeply rooted fear of the female sexuality that we've been taught to accept throughout most of history. What will people do when they are forced to familiarize themselves with a concept that they've been taught to misinterpret throughout time? They place it into a frame that they do understand, in this case their own sexuality, and as stated by Jesse, the male sexuality is (in some cases) marred by a Madonna-whore complex as a result of the demonization of the female sexuality. This means that a lot of porn that's made by men, for men, consist of huge misrepresentations of the female sexuality because it's viewed through a very warped lens.

The good thing is that porn also allows the voice of female sexuality to be heard, even though a lot of it works to further repress it. The fact that women like JesseQuinn takes action to change or enhance the porn industry proves this. So to answer the question posed by the OP. Not only do I believe that porn and feminism can coexist, but I believe that porn can be used as a feminist tool.
 

Greysun

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I don't think watching porn and respecting women is an either/or thing. There are some fetishes that focus on degrading women/men, sure, but for the most part it's just people playing a role for varying reasons. Some good, some bad. IMO, you can watch a porn and still respect the people around you. If you see people of the opposite sex as a lower life form, it's not something you can blame on Bonnie Rotten or James Deen. It's you baby.
 
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cougartoy

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I dont think this is a "women's issue". But i do think that for certain men.. watchinf porn for a prolonged duration tends to warp their mind in terms of the barriers between reality and fiction. Its this subset of men who regard women as purely sexual objects.

Me personally i enjoy watching porn but also respect my women. Respecting women is something that society in general are not paying much attention too.. even with all the gender equality and rights
 

TexanStar

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Oh FFS it's porn Jesus, lighten up. Humans are animals, sexual animals. Sex is many things. You don't like it, find another planet to live on. It's the why it is.

Did you just reply to three two year old posts to tell their ghosts to lighten up?
 

sizehungry

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How did we all arrive here ? Were we found under a cabbage leaf in the garden , did the fairies bring us , or the stork ? No , we arrived due to a sexual act between two different genders , coitus , sexual congress/relations , rooting , fucking , making the beast with two backs , whatever . Men like sex , Women like sex ( in general terms ) , normal , delightful experience , there is even an industry built around it , pornography . Sex can be hard to get , so pornography , like prostitution , fills a gap/need , or whatever . For some moronic reason , we turn this wonderful activity into a business , a power struggle , a weapon to get things from others , etc ,etc , and worst of all , into something dirty / shameful . Shame on us . The cold hard truth is that men (hetero ) are hard wired by mother nature to want to ( i'll be blunt here ) fuck women , just as women's desires/needs are also ordained by nature . Do women deserve the same respect that i demand for myself ? , of course they do , along with equal pay rates ,equal opportunities to flourish in their self chosen fields of employment , and whatever other activity that they choose . One of the truly sad facts is that some men , indulge in horrific abuse upon Women , which , frankly, disgusts me , and i believed that the laws regarding this should be reviewed , and strengthened in such a way that these "men" ( i feel uncomfortable calling them men ) are simply afraid to cross the line . In relationships that i am in , there is no "superior partner " , no power struggles , just a 50/50 mutually agreed upon effort with two people who seek a happy and contented life , do we argue , yes , of course , but it is always respectful of the other human being involved . Do I watch porn ? Yes , when i'm single , No when i'm attached . Do i want to have sex with Women , yes , of course i do , do i think " wow " i;d like to fuck her ? , yes , on occasion , am i sorry ? no , because that's just how it is . Do i make crude advances to women , or harass them in any way ? , absolutely not . Every day of my life i treat women as i would have them treat me, simple as that . All the rest of it is bullshit , and we eat it by the ton . Sad .
 
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950483

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How did we all arrive here ? Were we found under a cabbage leaf in the garden , did the fairies bring us , or the stork ? No , we arrived due to a sexual act between two different genders , coitus , sexual congress/relations , rooting , fucking , making the beast with two backs , whatever . Men like sex , Women like sex ( in general terms ) , normal , delightful experience , there is even an industry built around it , pornography . Sex can be hard to get , so pornography , like prostitution , fills a gap/need , or whatever . For some moronic reason , we turn this wonderful activity into a business , a power struggle , a weapon to get things from others , etc ,etc , and worst of all , into something dirty / shameful . Shame on us . The cold hard truth is that men (hetero ) are hard wired by mother nature to want to ( i'll be blunt here ) fuck women , just as women's desires/needs are also ordained by nature . Do women deserve the same respect that i demand for myself ? , of course they do , along with equal pay rates ,equal opportunities to flourish in their self chosen fields of employment , and whatever other activity that they choose . One of the truly sad facts is that some men , indulge in horrific abuse upon Women , which , frankly, disgusts me , and i believed that the laws regarding this should be reviewed , and strengthened in such a way that these "men" ( i feel uncomfortable calling them men ) are simply afraid to cross the line . In relationships that i am in , there is no "superior partner " , no power struggles , just a 50/50 mutually agreed upon effort with two people who seek a happy and contented life , do we argue , yes , of course , but it is always respectful of the other human being involved . Do I watch porn ? Yes , when i'm single , No when i'm attached . Do i want to have sex with Women , yes , of course i do , do i think " wow " i;d like to fuck her ? , yes , on occasion , am i sorry ? no , because that's just how it is . Do i make crude advances to women , or harass them in any way ? , absolutely not . Every day of my life i treat women as i would have them treat me, simple as that . All the rest of it is bullshit , and we eat it by the ton . Sad .
I really like your post. Just one thing: This "cold hard truth" that you mention ... I'm assuming that what you are referring to is the idea that men and women have different sexual needs or urges to each other. I don't believe this is entirely true.
 
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sizehungry

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I really like your post. Just one thing: This "cold hard truth" that you mention ... I'm assuming that what you are referring to is the idea that men and women have different sexual needs or urges to each other. I don't believe this is entirely true.
Hi swoon, thank you for the like . What i was getting at , is that i feel that women are not as" rabid " about sex , as men sometimes are . My logic in this is directly drawn from some of the horrific things that some " men " ( read vermin ") do to not only to women , but young girls , elderly women , and even boys . We have a court case here right now , the details of which , are shocking . If i got it wrong , i apologize , i'm not perfect , but i try . Cheers S.H
 
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950483

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Hi swoon, thank you for the like . What i was getting at , is that i feel that women are not as" rabid " about sex , as men sometimes are . My logic in this is directly drawn from some of the horrific things that some " men " ( read vermin ") do to not only to women , but young girls , elderly women , and even boys . We have a court case here right now , the details of which , are shocking . If i got it wrong , i apologize , i'm not perfect , but i try . Cheers S.H
I think that is, by and large, socially constructed and not so much to do with nature. It is perpetuated by porn (amongst other things).
 

sizehungry

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I think that is, by and large, socially constructed and not so much to do with nature. It is perpetuated by porn (amongst other things).
You could well be right , i'm no expert , just a face in the crowd , and all things said , all i really can do , is maintain my own standards .
 
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Magnum10x2

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Interesting takeaways...

If it wasn't arousing and interesting as well as a turn-on, why would so many women put themselves in a position such as violent porn? Do some women enjoy being physically dominated? Perhaps its borderline Fetish more than "normal" porn. Under the fetish umbrella, there is some crazy stuff people are into. Punching, Fisting, Kicking, Slapping - you name it. Does it change when you refer to the act as "Fetish" over "Porn"?

Normalish "porn" as compared to real life.... I'm not so sure there is much of a difference, its sex. Frankly, my sex life is far more varied than the typical 6 position porn scenes we see in most all videos.

The idea of "objectifying women" in porn is a weak argument at best. What about cosmetics, plastic surgery, lingerie, high heels???? is it okay if a women "objectifies" herself??? I might contend; there is nothing wrong with objectifying a women or the female form. Great artists have painted and sculpted women for centuries, men have written songs and fought wars over women.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to objectify the men a bit more in porn and get rid of all the jelly belly - flat out ugly dudes. Nothing is so disproportionate as the male & female form is in porn.
 

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I might contend; there is nothing wrong with objectifying a women or the female form. Great artists have painted and sculpted women for centuries, men have written songs and fought wars over women.

The problem lies in the fact that objectifying anyone risks dehumanizing them. It tends to ignore their traits beyond the physical appearance, and so can devalue their worth as an individual person. It can perpetuate stereotypes that further lump people together in amorphous groups that are easier to derogate than an individual with hopes, dreams, fears and doubts that we might otherwise identify with.

Perhaps it has no consequences 90% of the time, but anything that dehumanizes can exacerbate the way some regard, and therefore treat, those in the dehumanized group. In short, it can be a contributor to some abhorrent views and actions.

That said, your examples aren't necessarily objectification. Many painters sought to capture their subjects' personalities as well as their physical presence, and I would guess that what moved men to war or song over women was more than just a shapely ankle.