1 of the best articles on Legalizing Drugs...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Flashy, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Flashy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    8,097
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    at home
    I have ever read.

    usually, these articles focus on other aspects of legalization (which are very important too)

    but this takes a closer look at the impact of violence, (not to mention an estimate of cost per annum of ending the drug war and taxing drugs....77 billion...more than enough to cover the vast majority of uninsured americans IMO)

    washingtonpost.com
     
  2. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    The fact that marijuana is still illegal in this country is stupid. And I'm not even a smoker.
     
  3. Flashy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    8,097
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    at home
    agree.

    the word "stupid" does not do the colossal ridiculousness of the continuing prohibition full justice though.

    the economic boon (tax dollars) from cessation of law enforcement activities against marijuana cultivation, taxes from sale of, monies saved from jailing non-violent marijuana offenders, not to mention, the economic as well as environmental impact from the full legalization of industrial hemp.

    aside from that, i'd rather have people purchasing cocaine, ecstasy, heroin from a pharmacy than on the street...at least it could be kept better track of, and it could be made safer, which, considering the dangers involved now, would be marginally better.

    the legalization of marijuana though needs to be de-linked from harder drugs, lest it gives ammo to many critics who use that as a linkage weapon.
     
  4. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    I think drug laws are stupid too. A guy with a bag of cocaine in his hand during a drugs bust would only need to swallow it to escape the penalty which is not discouraging drug use. The law in regards to use of drugs should be the same as possessing or supplying if ANY are to be illegal then ALL should be illegal.

    Here, the UK declassified cannabis so we could get away with small possession but then moved it back up again after campaigners declared it to be a 'gateway' drug.

    I don't think cannabis should be illegal at all to use or possess or supply or cultivate, it is no more harmful than tobacco or alcohol.

    There is no way however that i would support the legalisation of some drugs like heroin or crack cocain.
     
  5. HazelGod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,531
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Other Side of the Pillow
    Excellent article, and not the first that I've seen from LEOs making a reasoned case against the War on Drugs™ continuing.

    In a time where the majority of states are facing budgetary shortfalls, the cost savings in terms of police, court dockets, indigent representation and incarcerations should be justification enough for abandoning this course of stupidity.
     
  6. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,319
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southwest U.S.
    I know it sounds counterintuitive, but without the threat of prosecution, you can register addicts and get them treatment. I don't know about cocaine, but in the case of heroine addiction, treatment consists of methadone so they can work and carry on. Not something I would ever wish on anyone, but it gets them off the streets and out of crime to support their habit.
     
  7. Flashy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    8,097
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    at home
    +1
     
  8. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    Nonetheless it sends out the wrong message, legalising anything gives consent to do without recourse. I have every sympathy for people who are addicted and need help but at the same time they have only their own stupidity to thank.

    I want cannabis to be legal and treated like tobacco or alcohol because i have tried it for several years (not in the last 2 tho) and found it to be fantastic and no dangerous to health than other legal products.

    I have experimented with other drugs too including speed, acid, ecstasy and cocaine but i would never agree that legalising them is right because the risks are too great. Some even if significantly small number of people can take 1 ecstacy tablet and die, legalising it would give the wrong impression and more people would try it and thus take the risk that could prove fatal, i tried it a dozen times and had two bad 'trips' of which the second had me so scared that i quit experimenting with drugs all together.

    The cost to society may be great but rather that than have people believing it's ok to try it because just once might be all it takes.

    I was NOT stupid with experimenting, i drew a line at cocaine and told myself before i embarked on the trials that i would never touch crack cocaine or heroin because of the extreme consequences that they could lead to, we are most of us given an education on drugs at school and if we all listened then there would not be a crack cocaine/heroin problem which is predominantly the drugs which lead to other crime to fund the expensive habit.

    It is not all drugs that are a problem, it is the big drugs and anyone getting involved in them need to be punished if supplying or manufacturing or trafficking. There is nothing that can currently change my mind that legalising drugs as a whole would be a good idea.
     
  9. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,319
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southwest U.S.
    I don't use drugs at all, but I am still in favor of legalizing them across the board. I have some reservations, but mostly I feel that it's like telling kids to stay out of the cookie jar. It just encourages them.
     
  10. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    I don't know about the law there in the states but it is not a crime to use drugs here so there is no threat of prosecution to get registered on methodone, it helps get people clean and wean themselves off heroin but unless people learn that it is a life destroying drug then the problem won't go away illegal or not.
     
  11. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    Yes and look what happens to kids that have unfettered access to the cookie jar, they get fat! And showing children images of obese people is not nearly as terrifying as showing them a dead body of a young adult with blue skin having died of a heroin overdose, kids can decide for themselves what is worth breaking the rules for and as most kids are not stupid they will never need to worry about the legality as they will never cross the experimental line into hard drugs later on in life.
     
  12. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,319
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southwest U.S.
    I wasn't thinking in those terms, but yeah, some people really struggle with addictive behaviors. I'm just not sure that punishment works. That's all we have in the states. Warehousing and punishment. There's no rehabilitation in jails.
     
  13. HazelGod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,531
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Other Side of the Pillow
    That's their parents' fault, not the government's. I know it's a difficult concept for you nanny-state kids to wrap your heads around, but the primary responsibility for educating and guiding children away from dangerous and destructive behaviors lies with their parents.
     
  14. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,319
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southwest U.S.
    I read a series of articles last year that said the United States has more people in prison per capita than anywhere but China. At any time 1 in 99 U.S. citizens is in prison. Really made me question. We're not as free as we think we are.
     
  15. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    I know, you are right that there is a natural curiosity to do what you are told not to but education is there to teach and so it really is the incredibly ignorant that get into problems.

    Perhaps that should change about the rehabilitation thing, it can be expensive but at least it is a lifeline for those who did'nt heed the lesson on drugs at school and have learnt the hard way and want to be free of the problem. Being locked up in theory is enough to get them clean but we all know that drug smuggling penetrates even jails so there really ought to be a proper program and perhaps they should not go to jail but enrol on such a scheme that would aim to see them right again.

    I'm sure there will be more debates on the issue and if it works in another country then maybe it could work and i would'nt oppose it but i honestly cant see any country being the first to try such a scheme. I know that the UK is 1 of 12 european countries that are tied to a mutual policy on drugs legislation so i would assume it would need to be a unanimous decision to legalise before such a thing could happen here.
     
  16. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,319
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southwest U.S.
    Check with Netherlands.
     
  17. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,453
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    36
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL

    pothead.
     
  18. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,453
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    36
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    Eh... I loathe the comparisons to any system/service/whatever in a country with only, in this case, 16 million ppl w/ stricter more enforceable checks/balances vs a 350+million populice... that's 20x bigger for those keeping score at home. Talk to me about Russia's, China's, India's policies.... and we'll be closer to apples:apples.
     
  19. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    Quite frankly offensive HazelGod, we are not stupid in this country, everybody knows whose responsibility kids are but obviously and this may come as a surprise- not all parents are that great, i lived with my single dad for the first 11 years of my life and i learnt nothing from him, if i did i would probably be in prison like he was once before.
    The term nanny state is conjured by those who feel like they are having their rights taken away and that is not a bad thing in the eyes of the other half of society who see it as a sacrifice worthy of having to ensure a safer place to live. It is not a 'nanny' state in my eyes, it is a 'guide' state.
     
  20. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    Well the Netherlands decided to try a practice of control because simply fighting the illegality of drugs was not stopping it so they have been really controversial but it is still a crime there to be involved in trafficking or production of drugs and the problems for users still exist. To top that off they have the second highest expenditure in the EU for tackling anti-drugs initiatives. Their way of dealing with the issue appears to be only beneficial to soft drug users which in fairness i am all for but it does'nt appear to have made a substantial enough difference and even now there are campaigners who want their laws to be looked at again.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted