1 of the best articles on Legalizing Drugs...

B_dxjnorto

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Eh... I loathe the comparisons to any system/service/whatever in a country with only, in this case, 16 million ppl w/ stricter more enforceable checks/balances vs a 350+million populice... that's 20x bigger for those keeping score at home.
It is true the more populous we get the more socialistic our government practices become. Take for example your home state.
 

faceking

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It is true the more populous we get the more socialistic our government practices become. Take for example your home state.

oh, you mean my home state which has pissed away the biggest real estate boom (nee property taxes) and tech boom (corporate tax revenues... yet is somehow now broke, and lambasts cuts to education and the closure of parks. yeah, taxing the dope will make it all better... FYI: they'll piss that away too with big gov't.
 

Industrialsize

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Well the Netherlands decided to try a practice of control because simply fighting the illegality of drugs was not stopping it so they have been really controversial but it is still a crime there to be involved in trafficking or production of drugs and the problems for users still exist. To top that off they have the second highest expenditure in the EU for tackling anti-drugs initiatives. Their way of dealing with the issue appears to be only beneficial to soft drug users which in fairness i am all for but it does'nt appear to have made a substantial enough difference and even now there are campaigners who want their laws to be looked at again.
Has it made any difference in the incidence of Crime in the Netherlands? The amount of money this country spends prosecuting the "War on Drugs" is shameful.
 

mitchymo

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Has it made any difference in the incidence of Crime in the Netherlands? The amount of money this country spends prosecuting the "War on Drugs" is shameful.

75% of their expenditure goes towards prosecuting, i think that is pretty high for a nation trying a 'control' policy and certainly makes me wonder if any small gain in what i expect would be a drop in minor crime would be worth adopting a similiar policy for. They are spending more on the fight against drugs than all but Sweden as far as EU countries go and just look at he population comparisons between them and the UK, France or Germany. I think it is a staggering amount they must be spending.
 

HazelGod

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Quite frankly offensive HazelGod, we are not stupid in this country, everybody knows whose responsibility kids are but obviously and this may come as a surprise- not all parents are that great, i lived with my single dad for the first 11 years of my life and i learnt nothing from him, if i did i would probably be in prison like he was once before.
The term nanny state is conjured by those who feel like they are having their rights taken away and that is not a bad thing in the eyes of the other half of society who see it as a sacrifice worthy of having to ensure a safer place to live. It is not a 'nanny' state in my eyes, it is a 'guide' state.

I don't care what you call it...a pile of shit by any other name stinks just as badly. And I don't give a rat's ass if you're offended or not. The fact remains, you live in a nanny state. Your elected idiots are actually considering using your tax money to install CC cameras into the homes of "unfit" parents and to hire other nannies to watch them.

You should just accept that your philosophical viewpoint on individual rights and responsibilities is completely at odds with that of most of the American members here. In fact, we kicked the shit out of you 233 years ago over this very difference.

Government's role should be limited to quality control and public advisory...ensure the product on the shelf is actually what the label says it is and let me know if their experts believe it's good for me, but the final decision on whether to consume it and the consequences for doing so rest ultimately with me. Alcohol, tobacco, MDMA or smack...the substance is irrelevant, the choice and the responsibility for it are mine.
 

MercyfulFate

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Marijuana needs to be legalized. We could create massive industries from hemp and pot, taxes, jobs....less people in jail, etc.

It needs to happen, it's only propaganda and blatant ignorance keeping it from being so.
 

mitchymo

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I don't care what you call it...a pile of shit by any other name stinks just as badly. And I don't give a rat's ass if you're offended or not. The fact remains, you live in a nanny state. Your elected idiots are actually considering using your tax money to install CC cameras into the homes of "unfit" parents and to hire other nannies to watch them.

You should just accept that your philosophical viewpoint on individual rights and responsibilities is completely at odds with that of most of the American members here. In fact, we kicked the shit out of you 233 years ago over this very difference.

Government's role should be limited to quality control and public advisory...ensure the product on the shelf is actually what the label says it is and let me know if their experts believe it's good for me, but the final decision on whether to consume it and the consequences for doing so rest ultimately with me. Alcohol, tobacco, MDMA or smack...the substance is irrelevant, the choice and the responsibility for it are mine.

I don't see how my viewpoint IS in opposition to most americans (you taken a poll have you).

I have not disagreed that it is an individual's responsibility to choose what they do or don't but when the consequences of individual's bad decisions have a negative impact on a great number of others then there should be guidelines (popularly called laws) to prevent people from doing the wrong or stupid thing.

The fact that you dislike the idea of the way that the current UK government operates is indicative of your personal beliefs and certainly does not qualify you to speak on behalf of an entire nation.

In response to your examples of the 'nanny' state, they are wildly extreme and the kind of examples expected to be used by the opposition to fearmonger.

Perhaps i am wrong, perhaps drugs should be legalised, perhaps we can become a workforce of 'off our face' incompetents, i'm sure the cost on society would be worth the saving on anti-drug expenditure, yea right.

Alcohol is perfectly legal but the way it is abused by the individual has negative effects, drugs would be no different but the effect that certain drugs have on the mind are unquestionably more dangerous than alcohol. It is not a 'nanny' state decision that would oppose such an idea, it is a very reasoned opinion.

Lastly, congratulations, you kicked the brits ass in a fight for independence, i am so bitter at the thought that we did'nt win, get real, i am pro-freedom as much as the next, you make out like the UK does not share common values with the US in this day and age.
 

B_dxjnorto

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Alcohol is perfectly legal but the way it is abused by the individual has negative effects, drugs would be no different but the effect that certain drugs have on the mind are unquestionably more dangerous than alcohol.
Don't let God get to you. He's usually like that. His system is stuck on pugilistic from decades of cocaine and crank.

As to alcohol, it has the highest cost to society because it is wide spread and the stigma is not much or non-existent. I think there's more of a social stigma to not drink alcohol. For every dollar spent at the liquor store, there is probably twenty dollars of social costs. Maybe more. We're just used to it.