15 year old gets murdered in hate crime.

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by IntoxicatingToxin, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. IntoxicatingToxin

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  2. Drifterwood

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    I have mouthed off in my anti american way :rolleyes: about your gun culture - hey ho.

    But please, when will those devastated stop saying it's unbelieveable? Have more guns than people and it's completely fucking believeable.

    Your country, our world, a sad place indeed.
     
  3. IntoxicatingToxin

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    I agree about the gun thing. Shit like this just makes me sick.
     
  4. Phil Ayesho

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    Guns are not the issue... humanity and religion are.

    Recent events in France, Darfur, and too many other to even list show that when cultures mix, violence is usually the result.


    Getting killed with a machete is not inherently 'better' than a gun.

    By and large, in America, many cultures and religions have co-existed with very little violence... largely because of the separation of church and state.
    The US has been proof that different people CAN live with each other... mostly without killing each other...

    But the recent wave of pressure from fundie Christians to establish their faith as the basis of this government is really encouraging the kind of hate reflected in this story.


    I tend to agree with you about this country celebrating the gun too much- especially in entertainment.

    But guns are not the cause of violence toward others.

    intolerance, moral certainty, arrogance, are the causes.

    Guns just make it easier to express.
     
  5. lttlgrllst

    lttlgrllst New Member

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    Sad, truly sad. What are people teaching their kids?
    Homophobia bullshit? Unreal, but sadly the reality of our world today.:frown:
     
  6. Kallisti

    Kallisti New Member

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    It think it is important to remember that a gun is no different from a hammer, a fork, or a coffee table. Any one of them can be used to kill or harm someone, but only if the person using the object is willing to do harm or kill.

    Also, it isn't necessarily the parents' teachings that made this happen. Perhaps the murderous prick was just a little asshole all on his own? Maybe his parents were progressive, open-minded people and this person was 'rebelling' against that, in the most misguided, awful way possible.
     
  7. Drifterwood

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    If this were true, why don't you send your soldiers to war with coffee tables and cutlery then?

    Sorry, but it's a lame apologists argument.
     
  8. midlifebear

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    So open minded that they saw no reason to teach their child love and tolerance? Yeah, right. Go ahead and believe that crap if that's what you need to rationalize the death of a 15 year-old victim of a gun crime. Children are taught to hate. They are taught intolerance. And these lessons are reinforced regularly. Rebelling against love and tolerance? My, what a dream world you live in. Teaching a child love and tolerance is hardly "progressive and open-minded" unless you just escaped your local KKK affiliate. Tool!
     
  9. midlifebear

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    Excellent, Drifterwood! I don't remember forks, spoons and table knives being invented as weapons to kill and maim.
    However, I did see one coffee table once (I think it was limed oak and Danish Modern) that was known to cause heart attacks when anyone looked at it.

    Sadly, the lame apologists usually have no idea they are lame or apologists or what term even means.
     
  10. bobabooey69

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    Religion and humanity? I am SURE you can regulate those easier than guns.:rolleyes:
     
  11. Gillette

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    The gunman, identified by the police as Brandon McInerney, “is just as much a victim as Lawrence,” said Masen Davis, executive director of the Transgender Law Center. “He’s a victim of homophobia and hate.”

    I think not.

    Nobody who premeditates a murder, I don't give a shit what age they are, get to proclaim victimhood. Allowing oneself to be brainwashed instead of using one's own brain to make decisions is weak, to be sure, but victim?

    No.
     
  12. Phil Ayesho

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    Guns ARE regulated... so are drugs, alcohol, and automobiles....

    I remember when abortion was illegal... and a female friend had not trouble getting an abortion...

    Hey- guess what? Its actually illegal to kill people, too.

    fat lot of good it does.


    Let me explain something hard for folks to grasp.
    Making things illegal has nearly no effect on their occurrence. All it does, and I mean ALL it does, is empower the State to incarcerate, or kill people for doing it.

    The fact that guns are legal currently aides in the prosecution of crime, because it makes guns traceable.


    Crime stats show murder is down in Australia, after they banned guns... stats also show that murder is down in the US, by the exact same percentage, and they haven't banned guns.



    And really... changing folks stupid beliefs is the key to getting them to live together.


    Let's work hard to make religion ludicrous... to making folks too embarrassed to even admit to it.


    That's what's worked for racism
    hell, its what's worked for smoking.
     
  13. IntoxicatingToxin

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    I sort of understand where the guy is coming from. The gunman is what... fourteen years old?
     
  14. Kallisti

    Kallisti New Member

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    Okay calm down. What I meant was (and try not to start foaming at the mouth until you've read my full post), OF COURSE they tried to teach love and tolerance. I was speaking generally by using the terms "progressive and open-minded." Maybe the kid was just wired wrong and turned out to be a hateful little prick all on his own.

    Secondly, I'm not rationalizing anything. I am in no way trying to say it is ok to kill someone (or harm them in any way) based on some sort of hate crime. But would you call it a hammer crime if the kid was killed with a hammer instead of a gun? "Gun" is just one of those buzz words that makes people fly off the handle and start yelling before they've thought things through. This is a horrible tragedy, but not because of the gun or because of the parents. It is horrible because one human being killed another as an act of malice and hatred.

    You're the one living in the dream world, based on your above quoted post. You're the one who specifically mentioned love and tolerance and then spent the rest of your post trying to tell ME that i was against them. You even accused me of being deluded and living in a dream world based on something YOU said, not me. And then you accused me of being a racist. How many times did I call someone names and insult them in my post?

    First off, I don't send soldiers ANYWHERE. I was out on the protest lines before this war started, I had to run to avoid getting my head beat in by local police saying that it was wrong, hell up until last year I worked cash-only and didn't even pay my income tax, so I didn't even finance the fucking war except at the gas pump. If you want to attack me for fueling my car, go ahead.

    And what exactly did I apologize for? I wasn't trying to apologize. FACT: a loaded gun sitting in a drawer or in a gun safe or even on the coffee table will not kill anyone. A crazy hateful asshole who is obviously deeply disturbed sure as hell will. And that person might use a gun but they might use their bare hands or anything else.

    I wasn't trying to piss people off with anything I said. You two are lashing back at me with knee-jerk arguments and overreactions, in my opinion. And that's a shame because it's only my second day here and neither of you know enough about me to warrant the type of accusations you have made.
     
  15. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Jeeez... the gun argument. Yeah, let's do something about it now... 200 yrs too late... because all the law abiding ppl will turn in their guns, while the bad guys will still gets theirs on the streets.... that makes perfect sense libtards.

    Then... let's be sure to protect everyone's rights (since Bush seems to have tossed them all out the window), and not go after anyone who still seems to carry a gun, because the ACLU et al will surely defend anyone. Lord forbid, law enforcement gets one leg up to protect and secure the citizens.

    This is unfortunate, but kids have murdered other kids over a kickball game... that's a hate crime as well.

    Also, "The shooting stunned residents of Oxnard, a laid-back middle-class beach community just north of Malibu."

    Sounds like it's middle-America, and definitely does NOT sound like the Oxnard I've been too, FWIW. Yeah.... just north of Malibu. An hour and a half drive....
     
  16. bigbull29

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    It's a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than with a knife, machete, etc. Also, you couldn't take the lives of a large number of people without a gun, unless you were to detonate a bomb.

    Guns make killing easy. Why are things that kill so celebrated in our country? These are not colonial days or the Wild Wild West when law was either not enforced or non-existant.

    So many people across the US walk around armed these days, and it really frightens me. What are we doing? Before we start arming ourselves, let's fight violence without being violent.

    Where is the violence stemming from? It surely just can't be due to video games and movies. Although discrimination was much more permissible 30 years ago, people were less violent in public: there weren't school and workplace shootings like today. Domestic and child abuse may have been no less common in those days, but there has been a fundamental change in our culture over time, leading to these all-to-common incidences. I don't know what it is or how it came about, but it's as real as real can be.

    Please speak out about violence in your communities and those around you. Violence, outside of self-defense, is never acceptable.

    Ellen did right by bringing this heartbreaking story to viewers' attention. Sadly, we can't rely on most religious groups to speak out on crimes against gays and lesbians.

    STOP VIOLENCE, STOP THE HATE
     
  17. EagleCowboy

    EagleCowboy Well-Known Member

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    That's right. And we have more people than them. So that's really saying something.


    To all of you who would ban guns: Go right ahead. But ONLY if you, yourself have no problems going person to person to collect said guns by yourself. Just be duly warned if we have to give up our protection, that anyone who tries will be staring down the wrong end of a 4 blade arrow loaded into a 75lb pull compound bow with me behind it. :biggrin1:

    That's completely fair, isn't it? Because EVERYONE knows that ONLY guns kill people and NOT bows and arrows.
     
  18. Dr. Algonquin

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    A majority of gun crimes are committed by convicted felons, who are already not allowed to have them. Making guns illegal will naturally only stop people who obey the laws, and they're not the ones we've got to worry about. Guns don't need to be as easy to get as they are though. I don't see any sensible reason to sell guns or ammo in department stores and pawn shops. Licensing for guns needs to be stricter too. It's easier to lose your priviledge to drive. But again none of that gets illegal guns out of criminal's hands.

    I could never feel safe with a gun in my house but some people wouldn't feel safe without one.
     
  19. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Ever notice it's happening in middle-class schools, and not the poorer neighborhoods...


    Many here don't want to hear this... but high school shootings don't come from poverty, drugs, gangs, low income neighborhoods, etc... something should be said for absence of values, culture, and family. Eventually this will click with a number of you...
     
  20. simcha

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    This is just pathetic and sad. When will our country wake up? When will people just agree to get along.

    So, even if we clean up all the guns floating around the country we will still have hate crimes if we don't educate each other and stop seeing difference as "enemy."
     
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