20/20 Segment on NBC's Entrapments

Mem

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As has been pointed out one guy who refused to go for this meeting was driven to suicide when, after repeated requests that he turn up he still refused.

I've seen some of the footage of the program now and I'm also worried that quite a few of the men they come across seem borderline retarded - one guy showed up in a predator mask, is that normal?

In the hazy world of the internet people feel much more freedom to enter into fantasy and if there wasn't an adult there who knew how to manipulate and inflame these fantasies how many of these men would never have given voice to something that he'd only thought about, having fantasies about underage girls might not be very healthy but I'm sure that the majority of men have had this type of fantasy once in a while - the 15 year old cheerleader, the schoolgirl - unfortunately these men came across adults who were able to give more fuel to these fantasies.

The guy who killed himself was after a teenage boy, so there was extra shame since he was probably in the closet.

One guy must have been retarded. He looked like he had an extra chromosome. He was the guy that got caught twice at two different houses, or he came back the next day, I don't remember it all, but he was busted twice.
 

Male Bonding etc

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I had watched the Dateline show before. It was disturbing. Of course you don't want a child predator contacting a child. But it was also the production of the show I found disturbing. I don't know why but the host and the production seemed equally creepy...like they are getting off on the people trying to get off. I wish I had words for this. The entire thing seemed odd so it doesn't surprise me they have crossed the line as well.

Dude, I totally agree with you. I have watched this show a couple of times, but I also found it disturbing. Needless to say, I am appalled at how many pedophiles there are out there, and they need to be removed from society. But watching this show is like being a voyeur, and not in a good way. I think it's a disgrace that they take an awful crime and turn it into ENTERTAINMENT.
I would describe this as gratuitous sensationalism. Yes, I too am appalled at how many pedophiles seem to be out there, and I do not want them abusing children. Nonetheless, this approach smacks of ratings and simplistic solutions to complicated problems. Perhaps NBC could put a similar effort into finding suicide bombers in Iraq and save some lives.
 

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I would describe this as gratuitous sensationalism. Yes, I too am appalled at how many pedophiles seem to be out there, and I do not want them abusing children. Nonetheless, this approach smacks of ratings and simplistic solutions to complicated problems. Perhaps NBC could put a similar effort into finding suicide bombers in Iraq and save some lives.

I can see that one now...

"NO! We need to get the explosion on film then go after them."

NBC = Not Being Concious
 

viking1

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Yes, I too am appalled at how many pedophiles seem to be out there, and I do not want them abusing children.

I read a while back about a foreign country that installed filtering on the internet coming into that country to block child porn sites. Those monitoring the system were appalled and amazed at the number of attempts to access these type websites on a typical weekend. The question is how many of these people would actually molest children, and how many is it just a jack off fantasy for. This is far more common than most people know, or should I say want to know.

However, the continued plastering of this all over the media is making people far too paranoid. There is a difference in being safe and using common sense, and outright paranoia. We have quite enough paranoia in our modern society now. The media preys on and serves paranoia.
This isn't only about pedophilia, either. The media does this with anything that it chooses. The media and the lobbyists run this country...
 

TheRob

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well the problem is I dont' want them to have it both ways
if someone is underaged but lies about it
are you scot free then?
it's all very weird
 

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well the problem is I dont' want them to have it both ways
if someone is underaged but lies about it
are you scot free then?
it's all very weird

That is why it is going to be interesting. The one person I know who did it slept with numerous guys under the guise of being older. This person finally came clean because she fell in love with one of them. Her parents got on her, not the men.

I think most cases like that never make it to court because what can a parent say? When you press those charges, the police are going to take said PCs, go over them with a fine tooth comb, and see the truth. It would be a prosecutor's nightmare.

About the only thing you can do now is counseling.

None of us are that new to the web and the issue of age verification is just as old as porn on the net. Rita Rudner said it best:

"You can't make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."

Age verification is and always will be un-foolproof.
 

EagleCowboy

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Viking1: I'm hazmat certified as well. If you can't get diesel fuel to ignite, then you're doing something wrong. I've lived out in the sticks for years and have used diesel for getting rid of piled up brush. Never had a problem getting it to ignite. An open flame which includes most sparks, is aprox. 1350 degrees. It's true that diesel does burn slower, but that's because it has more substance than gas, thus a higher (and more powerful) heat value because there's literally more to it. To get gas, diesel has to literally be "cracked" way down in cat crackers. (I worked in a refinery for years.) You can get propane by "cracking" gasoline down. The reason gas is more volatile is because gas now lacks the very hydrocarbon molecules that makes diesel more stable.

Osiris: Stay away from any of the minivans unless you get the Dodge Grand Caravan. Be careful which SUV you buy as some are built off of modified car platforms and aren't real trucks and have problems with their structural integrity as the thing ages. Ford trucks are great and will take all the abuse you can throw at them. The 2 biggest complaints (besides a squishy ride) is the vacuum hoses come off causing false problems, and 1 or 2 individual coils tend to fail at random. The Dodge trucks are *MUCH* tougher than the Fords and you just can't beat a Dodge diesel. (I have 4) If you get the gas engines, either get the HEMI or the biggest engine offered just under it. Stay away from any of Chrysler's smaller engines in anything. ALWAYS get Chrysler's high performance engines in any vehicle they offer. Nissan Titans are great trucks but only get the Infinity V8 and 4WD. The other Titans seems to have little annoying problems here and there that don't amount to much. Hope that helps. Hummers are literally re-skinned Chevy Suburbans!! Avoid at all costs!!
 

Osiris

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Viking1: I'm hazmat certified as well. If you can't get diesel fuel to ignite, then you're doing something wrong. I've lived out in the sticks for years and have used diesel for getting rid of piled up brush. Never had a problem getting it to ignite. An open flame which includes most sparks, is aprox. 1350 degrees. It's true that diesel does burn slower, but that's because it has more substance than gas, thus a higher (and more powerful) heat value because there's literally more to it. To get gas, diesel has to literally be "cracked" way down in cat crackers. (I worked in a refinery for years.) You can get propane by "cracking" gasoline down. The reason gas is more volatile is because gas now lacks the very hydrocarbon molecules that makes diesel more stable.

Osiris: Stay away from any of the minivans unless you get the Dodge Grand Caravan. Be careful which SUV you buy as some are built off of modified car platforms and aren't real trucks and have problems with their structural integrity as the thing ages. Ford trucks are great and will take all the abuse you can throw at them. The 2 biggest complaints (besides a squishy ride) is the vacuum hoses come off causing false problems, and 1 or 2 individual coils tend to fail at random. The Dodge trucks are *MUCH* tougher than the Fords and you just can't beat a Dodge diesel. (I have 4) If you get the gas engines, either get the HEMI or the biggest engine offered just under it. Stay away from any of Chrysler's smaller engines in anything. ALWAYS get Chrysler's high performance engines in any vehicle they offer. Nissan Titans are great trucks but only get the Infinity V8 and 4WD. The other Titans seems to have little annoying problems here and there that don't amount to much. Hope that helps. Hummers are literally re-skinned Chevy Suburbans!! Avoid at all costs!!

WOW! Thanks Eagle. Between you and Viking I think I have more than I ever thought of getting from Consumer Reports. No minivans or SUVs in our household. Only SUV we thought about was the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. I'm going truck for something I can fit all the camping gear and the fam in (I'm leaning towards Dodge or Toyota), ride securely, and not worry about break downs or do I have enough power.

If you guys get up Washington way, I'll buy you a beer at Redhook. Thanks!
 

EagleCowboy

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Enough of that thread hijacking!! Back to the subject.

Well we all know that 99% of the media is reckless and has made it quite clear that they don't care who it hurts and makes no apologies for it. Sensationalism is big $$$. I've seen first hand how the media will take a story and either re-word it or hype it up so that the story is far more than it originally was. The truth should never be blown out of proportion nor omitted.

The biggest problem is how do you weed out the pedophiles, that given the perfect opportunity, will actually go for it from those that just won't and are content to entertain it as fantasy only? How does one do it legally, morally, and ethically, without violating or infringing on someone's legal rights? That's a tough one that hasn't really been solved efficiently yet.

I have a website that you can surf to find all of the registered sex offenders in your area. When I looked up my area, I was absolutely FLOORED at all the people I knew that were on this site. (I didn't much care for these particular people, but after seeing them on this site, I *REALLY* can't stand them)

Dru Sjodin National Sex Offender Public Registry
Bookmark it!!
 

Male Bonding etc

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Well we all know that 99% of the media is reckless and has made it quite clear that they don't care who it hurts and makes no apologies for it.
I've been misquoted by the press before. We need them, but they are pretty cavalier about the facts and are more interested in stoking fires than being proactive.
The biggest problem is how do you weed out the pedophiles, that given the perfect opportunity, will actually go for it from those that just won't and are content to entertain it as fantasy only? How does one do it legally, morally, and ethically, without violating or infringing on someone's legal rights? That's a tough one that hasn't really been solved efficiently yet.
Okay, jump all over me about the permanent damage done and so on, but in the larger scheme of things, pedophiles are not the worst criminals out there; so, I hate seeing a disproportionate amount of attention being paid to their crimes. That said, while their crime is still not something we should be tolerating, I do believe in giving people the opportunity to redeem themselves whenever possible.

So, catching them is only part of the problem. Then we have to figure out what to do with them. Lynching them is hopefully not a serious solution. Embarrassing them by showing their names and faces on national television does not seem to be the solution. I would suggest that you are not going to be able to keep them all in prison for the rest of their lives, either. I know some communities do a pretty good job of running them out of town when they're discovered on lists such as the one mentioned by EC, but they do have to live SOMEwhere.

Perhaps more attention should be paid to how to change their behavior. Castration, though considered cruel and unusual punishment, seems to have worked in some experiments. Given a choice of locking them up forever (which means they're back on the streets in a few years and not rehabilitated) or castrating them, I think castration is actually more humane and certainly less expensive than supporting them for the rest of their lives in prison.
 

Osiris

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Enough of that thread hijacking!! Back to the subject.

Well we all know that 99% of the media is reckless and has made it quite clear that they don't care who it hurts and makes no apologies for it. Sensationalism is big $$$. I've seen first hand how the media will take a story and either re-word it or hype it up so that the story is far more than it originally was. The truth should never be blown out of proportion nor omitted.

The biggest problem is how do you weed out the pedophiles, that given the perfect opportunity, will actually go for it from those that just won't and are content to entertain it as fantasy only? How does one do it legally, morally, and ethically, without violating or infringing on someone's legal rights? That's a tough one that hasn't really been solved efficiently yet.

I have a website that you can surf to find all of the registered sex offenders in your area. When I looked up my area, I was absolutely FLOORED at all the people I knew that were on this site. (I didn't much care for these particular people, but after seeing them on this site, I *REALLY* can't stand them)

Dru Sjodin National Sex Offender Public Registry
Bookmark it!!

I'm glad I looked, but now horrified to find a level 3 offender less than a mile from me. Oh well, so ends the innocence of my little ones. I had been told by a neighbor that there was "A guy in a van cruising the subdivision with a puppy." Guess I need to keep the yard gates closed when the kid's are out on the property now.
 

Meniscus

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...it was also the production of the show I found
disturbing. I don't know why but the host and the production seemed
equally creepy...like they are getting off on the people trying to get
off. I wish I had words for this. The entire thing seemed odd so it
doesn't surprise me they have crossed the line as well.

Agreed.

their name is ironic, sometimes they use
perverted means to obtain their justice.

Yes, I thought much the same thing. Also, you could argue that the
justice obtained is perveted (i.e., corrupted, distorted, tainted).
Hence, is it really justice?

...watching this show is like being a voyeur, and
not in a good way. I think it's a disgrace that they take an awful crime
and turn it into ENTERTAINMENT.

Quite right.

...In the hazy world of the internet
people feel much more freedom to enter into fantasy and if there wasn't
an adult there who knew how to manipulate and inflame these fantasies
how many of these men would never have given voice to something that
he'd only thought about...

That's my concern as well. I don't understand the technicalities of the
law, but it seems to me that in order to have a crime you need to have a
victim. If the victim turns out to be an actor who set up the crime,
was a crime really committed, or was there merely a potential crime? I
suppose intent constitutes crime, but then we're getting into mind
reading. How can you know if these men would have gone through with it,
unless, perhaps, he has a previous history of such behavior? But I'm
under the impression that most of these guys have never done anything
like that before, and you could argue that they never would have it the
Perverted Justice hadn't set them up. They would never have tried to
make their fantasies reality if someone hadn't dangled the bait in front
of them, and whether or not they are convicted, their lives are ruined
for what may amount to a moment of bad judgment.

...The question is how many of these people would actually molest children, and how many is it just a jack off fantasy
for. This is far more common than most people know, or should I say want
to know...

As disgusted and appalled as we might be by other people's jack-off
fantasies, there's a big difference between fantasy and action. The
guys getting caught by Perverted Justice may have crossed the line, but
would they have done it if foks at Pervy Justice hadn't dangled the bait
in front of them? "Here's your chance to live out your fantasy..."

Consider this: Think about all the Daniel Radcliffe threads on this
site. Are the guys here who are interested in young Mr. Radcliffe
predatory pedophiles? I seriously doubt it. Let's face it, he's not 10
years old anymore. He's grown into a handsome young man. Albeit, he
may be too young for most of us, but we're not so old as to have
forgotten what it was like to be a teenager and to have a crush on
another boy. When I look at Daniel, I don't fantasy about myself as a
36 year old man having sex with him, I fantasize about being a kid
again, living in a world of magic, going to Hogwarts, and trying to win
the affection of the famous boy wizard. But that's maybe that's just me
being a geek. The point is, there's still a part of me that's a shy,
awkward, horny, insecure, closeted teenager. And that teenage boy
inside of me is totally crushing on Daniel. Meanwhile, my adult self is
thinking, "I wonder what his dad looks like?"

...However, the continued plastering of this all
over the media is making people far too paranoid. There is a difference
in being safe and using common sense, and outright paranoia. We have
quite enough paranoia in our modern society now. The media preys on and
serves paranoia...

Agreed. And this trend is far more dangerous to humanity than the men
who are getting caught on this show. It's only a matter of time before
the media starts watching us. It's already begun. How's that for paranoid?

Meanwhile, the truly dangerous, predatory pedophiles are still out
there, still active.
 

SpoiledPrincess

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Unfortunately most kids who are preyed on by paedophiles are preyed on by members of their own family, we can't just relegate our responsibilities to 'society' we have to take part in keeping our kids safe. We have to give them the knowledge that there are bad people out there and that they are safe in coming to their parents with any worry they have.

One of the men on the program didn't go through with it, despite repeated phone calls asking him to come to meet he didn't go, the police turned up on his doorstep and he subsequently killed himself. An article in Rolling Stone magazine alleges that if the 'paedophiles' say they don't want to meet then the 'teenage girl' they're talking to taunts them with accusations of being a coward and tries to push them into meeting. The members of Perverted Justice are hanging out in sex rooms, we all know personally how many people adopt a fake persona on here so I do believe it's perfectly possible that a high percent of the men implicated don't truly believe they're talking to a teenager they might well believe they're talking to another adult who is also indulging a rather unhealthy fantasy.

I'm all for paedophilia being wiped out but this certainly isn't the way to go about it, I don't know what is but we all know paedophiles are out there yet every day I see 6 year olds out playing unaccompanied by an adult, I know there are 10 year olds who are allowed unsupervised on the net, there are parents who would practically let Charles Manson babysit for them if it meant they could get a bit of peace from the children they chose to have.
 

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A guy was accused of downloading child pornography. Neighbors torched his house killing his wife. Other guys across the country have been shot and killed.

I don't think we need to go down the path of vigilantiism.