23 and The Golden Ratio (1.6180339887)

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by mephistopheles, Oct 29, 2007.

  1. mephistopheles

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    There are two numbers that are linked to a lot of things: 23 and 1.67

    It's said that the number 23 can be linked to everything pertaining to names, colors, places, times, and people in general. Some thing 23 is evil(2 divided by 3 is 0.666), some don't even give a fuck.

    I linked it to myself through my social security number... Linked it to my mother and father by their birthdays: Mother; 02/26/1966 (2+2+6+1+9+6+6 = 32, which is 23 backwards) Father; 10/19/1965 (1+0+1+9+1+9+6+5 = 32, which is again 23 backwards)
    I linked it to my brother, which was easy, seeing as how he was born on march 23... and to my sister whose favorite color is pink(pink is red and white: R-18 E-5 D-4 W-23 H-8 I-9 T-20 E-5 thats 27 and 65 27+65 = 92... 92 divided by 4 is 23. There are thousands of other ways to extract 23 out of pretty much everything I just dont have the time to display them.
    When i was being told about 23 it was exactly 10:13 pm... 10+13 = 23. Ive found that its in pretty much everything.
    what are you're thoughts?

    and what about the golden ratio?

    Decimal - 1.6180339887

    In mathematics and the arts, two quantities are in the golden ratio if the ratio between the sum of those quantities and the larger one is the same as the ratio between the larger one and the smaller. The golden ratio is approximately 1.6180339887.
    At least since the Renaissance, many artists and architects have proportioned their works to approximate the golden ratio—especially in the form of the golden rectangle, in which the ratio of the longer side to the shorter is the golden ratio—believing this proportion to be aesthetically pleasing. Mathematicians have studied the golden ratio because of its unique and interesting properties.
    The golden ratio can be expressed as a mathematical constant, usually denoted by the Greek letter [​IMG] (phi). The figure of a golden section illustrates the geometric relationship that defines this constant.

    golden ratio

    what are your thoughts?
     
  2. HazelGod

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    I think the ideas surrounding 23 are numerological poppycock. In and of itself, it means nothing more that what it says, but some people like to retroactively ascribe it all sorts of significance. While it might be of passing interest for the sheer coincidence in any number of events, it is by no means descriptive of them unto itself, nor does it carry any amount of causality.

    Now the Golden Ratio and pi are infinitely interesting concepts...not so much for their numerical representations, but because they are actually the human placeholders for naturally occuring phenomena that we lack any more articulate mechanisms to describe.

    Numerologists attempt to force this type of significance onto otherwise meaningless numbers (like 23), when in fact, their whole thought process is ass-backward.
     
  3. Not_Punny

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    I don't know anything about the number "23", but we studied phi in art/design school. Weird, isn't it?!
     
  4. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Now here's where we need a Muslim numerologist. That's no joke either. The Muslims have used numerology for centuries as a tool to mystically interact with God. It is a fascinating practice which I know little about.
     
  5. Hugh Mann

    Hugh Mann New Member

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    Phi is cool. As for numerology, I've spent most of my life studying mathematics, and in my opinion numerology is a load of crap. You can find any number you want in nature if you try hard enough.
     
  6. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Depends why you are looking for it, how you found it, and what it means. Numerology may be perfectly useless to a mathematician but then mathematicians aren't looking for a mystical insight are they?
     
  7. Jovial

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    I think you could find similar things with numbers other than 23. That is just a trick.

    The golden ratio is just the positive root of x^2 - x - 1 = 0, but interesting nonetheless.


    I like Euler's identity: e^(i*pi) +1 = 0

    It links five of the most basic constants in mathematics (0, 1, pi, e, and i) into one equation using three basic arithmetic functions (addition, multiplication and exponentiation.)
     
  8. ClaireTalon

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    The number 7 appears all over the place too. There have been 7 kings of rome who have left no trace of their existence except for their names and are meanwhile believed to be more products of historical fantasies than having been actually exiting persons. Also, the Inca had 7 chiefs of the same nature. And last but not least, it's Snow White and the 7 dwarfs, right?

    To link this to interesting numbers, I may point out the Fibonacci sequence: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89... these numbers appear pretty often in nature: the number of petals on a flower, leaf arrangements, etc. If you assign each number a square's side length, and put those squares together, linking the points leads to a spiral which is a model for spirals appearing in hurricanes, galaxies, spiderwebs and shells. Also, dividing one number of the sequence through its predecessor leads towards the golden mean. For more information on this (and a good read also), I suggest you try to get Bill Murphy's Fractions of Zero.

    However, these things are merely fancy expressions for mathematic possibilities. It is dangerous to assign too much meaning to them, especially if the fields of science are left in the process of doing so.


    I like Euler's identity: e^(i*pi) +1 = 0

    It links five of the most basic constants in mathematics (0, 1, pi, e, and i) into one equation using three basic arithmetic functions (addition, multiplication and exponentiation.)[/quote]
     
  9. Hotrocker

    Hotrocker Well-Known Member

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    I think that the brain is very very powerful computer that, with the right amount of thought, can make someone see whatever it is they want to see. Seeing is not always believing...

    Its not supernatural mumbo jumbo, its not a predestined path...

    its just psychology and science.
     
  10. holsty101

    holsty101 New Member

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    Have you seen the film pi?

    It's about (from imdb) "A paranoid mathematician searches for a key number that will unlock the universal patterns found in nature."

    It's worth checking out if you have an interest in this sort of thing.
     
  11. Jovial

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    I'm not sure if this is in that book, but the Fibonacci numbers can also be calculated by the expression (involving the golden ratio p = 1.618...)

    F(n) = ( p^n - (1-p)^n ) / square_root_of(5)

    And that is the beauty of math. Things that don't appear related at first actually are. There is a whole journal devoted to Fibonacci numbers, so they certainly have been interesting for a long time.

    But a lot of people don't realize that a lot of seemingly useless mathematical concepts turned out to be very useful to science decades or even centuries later. Math underlies all of engineering and science, and it's importance is undervalued by most people.
     
  12. Love-it

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    Chippendale, a furniture maker in 18th century England is famous for his furniture and designs. He used the Golden Rule or ratio as did the Greeks in their architecture.
     
  13. ClaireTalon

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    There is a wide variety of tools and methods, of both geometrical as well as analytical nature, to calculate Fibonacci numbers and the golden mean. In fact, this is a method that I had to work out a computer code for in college, where two consecutive Fib. numbers F_n and F_(n+1) are calculated from F_n and F_(n-1) by denoting both as 2-vectors, and then multiply (F_n; F_(n-1)) with the matrix (1, 1; 1, 0) to get (F_(n+1); F_n). The golden mean is the positive solution of the characteristic polynomial. Geometrical methods mostly use the continued partitioning of squares and the golden spiral as their basic concept.

    You're telling me! I remember more than one lecture on mathematics where I thought, "What will I need that shit for?" and find myself in another lecture, a year later or so, where exactly that shit came back to me. However, as I've said, false conclusions can be achieved rather quickly when you try to apply mathematics to mystical problems, so better don't do it.
     
  14. JustAsking

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    This is very true, Jovial. It is not unusual for math to be developed that is not used in Physics for decades. In fact Reimmanian Geometry was around for almost a century before it found a use in General Relativity. The story goes that mathemitician attended a lecture Einstien was giving on GR one time and saw that Einstien's math for representing it was convoluted and awkward. Einstien never claimed to be the best mathematician, so this was not unusual.

    The guy talked with Einstein after the lecture and told him about Reimmanian Geometry, and the rest was history.

    There is something far more amazing about math than numerology, I think. Ponder for a moment how a system of mathematics can be developed by a mathematician as an abstract system that has not relationship to the physical world. In a sense, mathematicians "discover" systems of mathematics rather than invent them. But then ponder the fact that some decades later someone can find a use for that system of math to describe something fundamental in the universe like relativity?

    What is it about math that allows it to be the exact language of the universe?

    What is it about the universe that aspects of it can be characterized by math?

    What is it about the human mind that it can develop math independently of the physical world and later apply it to the physical world?

    Does anyone find this as completely mind-blowing as I do?
     
  15. Hugh Mann

    Hugh Mann New Member

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    Yes. Another good example is algebraic geometry...at face value, it's the study of the zero sets of polynomial equations, and has been around for hundreds of years. But lately, it's very important in several areas of mathematical physics, and seems to be deeply connected with the workings of the universe. This is surprising at first, since polynomials are a very small subset of all the functions one deals with in physics.
     
  16. ClaireTalon

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    There's also the other extreme, mathematical methods and formalisms that were born in the solution of basic mechanical problems (Fourier transformation and string vibration, calculus of variations and the propagation of light, ...). I have often found it fascinating how an abstract concept, devoid of any link to the real world at first sight, can be found in an observation. You are right, it is mind-blowing.

    One of the lecturers I have had in college used to say, the best thing about mathematical or physical problems is that the solution is in the formulation of the problem, and only needs to be discovered, rather than being invented.
     
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