50 Years Of Tax Cuts

twoton

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“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.“
 
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twoton

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I wonder, though.

Lower taxes might be an incentive to increase investments. The rate of investment income growth probably accelerates as the amount of investment increases.
Thus, it makes sense that the rich would get richer faster if they are incentivized to increase their investments.

And the older I get, and the more I realize how much money I’m not making, the more I also realize that there are a whole lot of people who work really hard and never get ahead, and there are a whole lot of people who never get ahead because they don’t give a shit. And no matter how we reform the economy, the people who don’t give a shit will always lag because of their own undoing.
 
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lovinglife

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I am all for taxing the super rich. Jeff Bezos will never in his lifetime or several generations of lifetimes be able to spend $185 billion (if he hadn't gotten divorced he would be worth almost a quarter of a TRILLION dollars). Like that is actually insane. Then you have others like Bill Gates who have been actively trying to spend their money to help others and they are still earning more than they can spend. These people didn't get to this level of wealth alone. They had the help of thousands if not tens of thousands of people. They stood on their shoulders and outearned them a million to one. They got lucky and hit the jackpot, except they are taxed at a rate far lower than winning an actual jackpot in the lottery.
 

phonehome

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“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.“


Or as I have always put it

They were born with the "fuck you I got mine" gene

And they can not imagine the possibility, how ever slight that some how some way someday might NOT "have their's"

like a LOT of those people in those big long food lines in Texas

They "just knew" that that was NEVER going to be them

Until it WAS
 
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seventiesdemon

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The largest, biggest (not trying to use Don words :) ) Is the shrinking availability of income.

Why have we arrived at the place we have? Because of cheap goods. It was all well and good in the beginning...when everyone went wow, that is so cheap. Not realizing it would cause a gradual decline in income, and eventually the ability to afford products locally made.

More and more western governments are called upon to spend billions they don't have...Why? Because humans in another place work for peanuts or nothing to feed our greed.

The French have been forthright in recent times, just yesterday, or the day before, pointing the finger at the world supplier...China. As to why goods have been so affordable. Cheap labour. We've all know this, it's not a secret.

Yes, the the CCP don't like it. But, it's true. 300 million immigrant workers, along with the enforced "retraining" camps for the Uyghers. Yet we have all turned a blind eye.

Now because of the rise of the middle class in China in wealth...the strings, the ties, the twine which has held it all together for the rise of an Empire, are slowly beginning to unravel............The CCP are becoming bullies, scared... because the corruption and trade in human slavery is being exposed. As it should be, and for those who have used it for their own gain.
 
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seventiesdemon

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Tax.....yes...place a tax for the poor in another nation to suffer the consequence. Who are the ones who wish to keep Empires? They are very well recognisable.

Build a Super yacht, build a dream. On what, someone, some family and their children are paying with their dreams for yours. Yup, and they are given no choice in the process.
 
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Drifterwood

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Tax.....yes...place a tax for the poor in another nation to suffer the consequence. Who are the ones who wish to keep Empires? They are very well recognisable.

Build a Super yacht, build a dream. On what, someone, some family and their children are paying with their dreams for yours. Yup, and they are given no choice in the process.

The inequality of aspiration. Is that your fault?
 
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deleted15807

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Lower taxes might be an incentive to increase investments. The rate of investment income growth probably accelerates as the amount of investment increases.

Yes that and job creation is what the US has been feed for 50 years as "proof" tax cuts work. But it's 100% bogus. Kansas did a "lab experiment" and dramatically cut taxes and then waited for the economic BOOM that never came. What did though was a sea of red ink. It didn’t happen. The cuts threatened the viability of Kansas’s schools and infrastructure; in the first year they were implemented, they resulted in a $700 million revenue loss for the state. In 2017, the Kansas legislature voted overwhelmingly to restore the state’s tax rates.

Eventually they were forced to give up as they can't simply finance the big budget gap with bonds as the US federal government can.


The Tax Experiment That Failed
 

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Drifterwood

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Ok, I have read the report.

Cutting tax on the rich makes rich people richer. Does someone want a Nobel prize for that?

It has no discernible benefit to GDP per capita nor does it increase employment.

And? Why do you feel that you are owed some benefit from successful people being allowed to keep more of the money they earn? It clearly doesn't harm the economy when they are allowed to keep their money.

Would you advocate driving successful people out of your economy?

BTW half our 1% in the UK work for the government or are medical doctors.
 
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phonehome

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Ok, I have read the report.

Cutting tax on the rich makes rich people richer. Does someone want a Nobel prize for that?

It has no discernible benefit to GDP per capita nor does it increase employment.

And? Why do you feel that you are owed some benefit from successful people being allowed to keep more of the money they earn? It clearly doesn't harm the economy when they are allowed to keep their money.

Would you advocate driving successful people out of your economy?

BTW half our 1% in the UK work for the government or are medical doctors.

Because if REPEAT if when these tax cuts were/are proposed the pols pushing for these tax cuts were up front about it and just said "we want "rich people to keep more of their money" and that was it, full stop that would be one thing but, at least in the US anyway it has always been this "trickle down bullshit, that if "we" allow rich people to "keep more of there money that they WILL as if there is some kind of LAW that requires it, do X,Y &Z and the result of that WILL BE "more jobs" that not only with it NOT "harm the economy" it will aid it, GDP will go up, "demand" will go up tax revenue collected by thye Federal government will go up

Yet when you "run the experiment" as Sam Brownback did in Kansas and Bobby Jimdahl did in Louisiana and numerous times on the Federal level it never works out that way.

And when you go the other direction as bill Clinton did in the 90's and Jerry Brown did in California A right at the of the Kansas and Louisiana and it does not turn out to bne the utter disaster that everyone on FOX assured it it would be that never makes any of these "supply sider's" think that maybe just maybe they have been wrong all these years.

BTW when it gets pointed out that plenty, I would say most of those rich people don't EVER through multiple rounds of these tax cuts EVER do X,Y&Z just take the money and put in some mutual fund or squirrel it away in some "off shore bank" Switzerland, the Cayman islands, or where ever then we hear "well it their money, they can do what ever they want with it" to which I say "fine, the next time you want to sell us on ANOTHER round of tax cuts just tell us that and don't try to sell us this "they will do X,Y&Z bullshit" "
 
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Drifterwood

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Because if REPEAT if when these tax cuts were/are proposed the pols pushing for these tax cuts were up front about it and just said "we want "rich people to keep more of their money" and that was it, full stop that would be one thing but, at least in the US anyway it has always been this "trickle down bullshit, that if "we" allow rich people to "keep more of there money that they WILL as if there is some kind of LAW that requires it, do X,Y &Z and the result of that WILL BE "more jobs" that not only with it NOT "harm the economy" it will aid it, GDP will go up, "demand" will go up tax revenue collected by thye Federal government will go up

Yet when you "run the experiment" as Sam Brownback did in Kansas and Bobby Jimdahl did in Louisiana and numerous times on the Federal level it never works out that way.

And when you go the other direction as bill Clinton did in the 90's and Jerry Brown did in California A right at the of the Kansas and Louisiana and it does not turn out to bne the utter disaster that everyone on FOX assured it it would be that never makes any of these "supply sider's" think that maybe just maybe they have been wrong all these years.

BTW when it gets pointed out that plenty, I would say most of those rich people don't EVER through multiple rounds of these tax cuts EVER do X,Y&Z just take the money and put in some mutual fund or squirrel it away in some "off shore bank" Switzerland, the Cayman islands, or where ever then we hear "well it their money, they can do what ever they want with it" to which I say "fine, the next time you want to sell us on ANOTHER round of tax cuts just tell us that and don't try to sell us this "they will do X,Y&Z bullshit" "

Yep, I have no idea why they keep peddling the idea that it makes any difference to anything.

The issue is the plutocrats, not the 1%.

Your tax comes from the richest 15%. This is the group that responds to tax cuts.
 

phonehome

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Yep, I have no idea why they keep peddling the idea that it makes any difference to anything.

The issue is the plutocrats, not the 1%.

Your tax comes from the richest 15%. This is the group that responds to tax cuts.


They keep "pedaling the idea" because IT WORKS

If they were just honest and said they wanted "rich people" how ever that gets defined to keep more of there money and leave it at that, the rubes that vote for them would never go for that

But tell those Rubes that they will benefit even though they never have any time it was ever done before and they will swallow that bullshit hook, line ans sinker one more time
 
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bar4doug

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The most epic con that still works. Conservatives are to be congratulated❤️

50 years of tax cuts for the rich didn't trickle down, study says

It's a lot more complicated than this, and I can't say with a straight face that "Tax the rich" is going to solve the problem. Contributing factors include, but are not limited to:
1. A movement from skilled labor to automation.
2. An economic shift from industry to commercial services.
3. A gross under-estimate of required funding for the change in the human life-span and cost-of-living. (i.e - government pension costs; private sector pension costs)
4. A policy of solving the short term crisis with little thought to long term impacts.

Those who save will always be wealthier than those who do not save. Changing the tax rate won't change this. The first questions one needs to ask is why can't everyone save, and what needs to change? Why is the cost of living / being a member of society so expensive? The short term answer may be to confiscate wealth, to give those who are struggling a lifeline. But if the cost of living / being a member of society doesn't change, eventually you run out of wealth to take.

I am not a fan of high taxes targeting a small segment of the population. That small segment can surely get away. Taxes that are broad and take little from a large portion of the population (i.e. - a value-added-tax) that is broad based and sustaining will be far better off in the long term, but I am afraid will upset too many people in the short term. There are a lot of bills that are sure to come due, while one may argue the rich can pay them all off now, unless the level of spending changes, society will be right back where it is now, except the rich are no more.
 
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