60,000,000 refugees and growing

[bigbull29]

Don't compare sufferings.

"CAN" is the operative word in "can give medicine." The sufferings of the Third World go much further than just AIDS (I visited one).

I'm done arguing the point.

Don't turn your back on the refugees like you did me. LOL.

Be like Mother Theresa but give those condoms out. Give it all up for the poor. Then you'll be saint.

I'm afraid some of the refugee help will fizzle out over time. It's rooted deeply in left-wing politics and not out of the goodness of the heart. Stay with it like a Catholic saint or Buddhist monk. Then I'll come back and praise you.

 

[Perados]

Many dying people in the Third World have no one to help them as they live in extreme poverty and torteruous conditions.. No different than a war zone. It's not good to compare sufferings.

i agree with you that everyone who suffers needs support.
If you would read my other posts at this thread and at the "euro crisis" thread, you would notice that my point is, that everyone in need has the right to move to a better place...

But i also say, it would be difficult (not impossible) to care for all 60 million refugees, by letting them enter Europe and the USA.

That's why we have to desite HOW we can help everyone the best way...

An AIDS victim in India can get his treatment in India.
People in poverty can get feeded in their home country - at least for a short period of time.
People who live in war areas have to leave these areas...

That's why i think, get the people from Syrian/Iraq/Afghanistan first into Europe / USA.
Should the wars be over, we can start to get people suffering from poverty to Europe / USA

The West gives AIDS medicines to many Africans. Otherwise, they'd die. Also, many religious and non-religious do beautiful acts of kindness for the impoverished continent.

The question is, who do we have to give AIDS medicines to Africa and why do western organisations have to do "beautiful acts of kindness" to Africa?

If we wouldn't explore their resources, create unfair trade conditions and support dictatorship, they could produce their own AIDS medicine and "beautiful acts of kindness" weren't needed.

Without the west and lately without China, Africa would be a prospering and wealthy continent

 

[bigbull29]

An AIDS victim in India can get his treatment in India.
People in poverty can get feeded in their home country - at least for a short period of time.
People who live in war areas have to leave these areas...

But they don't get fed; they don't get proper medicines; they don't get help when raped, tortured, etc.

Slaughters are common occurrences in parts of Africa. We just never hear of them in the media (out of sight, out of mind). I spent time in Haiti and came back in shock for two weeks.

Anyways, I'm well aware of the corruption of Western governments and organizations (I'm the last person who needs lectured on this subject). It doesn't mean that Western people, (if you'd like a better word), have never done any good to help the Third World. In fact, they are those who have made real differences in the lives of the poorest of the poor. Sadly, it's never enough - not even close to rectifying the underlying problems that lead to the scourge of the innocent.

Seriously, help those in need. You'll be a better person for it. Don't look at it as if you can right the world's injustices over night. You just do the little you can do in your little corner of the world. Trust me, there are limits, but you don't think of them when you're helping those in desperate need.

I'm not a cold and callous person with regard to refugees. We have to have our guards up, nonetheless, when we help as we have to think of the safety of ourselves and our own families (unless you're all-giving and want to make the ultimate sacrifice).

Not sure Africa would be a economically thriving and socially civilized continent without any Western or Chinese intervention, but...(we'll just leave things at that).

Good night.

 

[Perados]

@bigbull29

I never said you were wrong helping AIDS victims. And yes, Haiti is a mess. You are also correct to say that people live in poverty, get tortured and raped...
And all these people deserve support, in a similar way as people living in war areas.
We agree on this.

BUT, your point to demand a limit for refugees is unrealistically... (it would be illegal also, just read the treaties your country signed)


And i never said single western people never did anything good to developing economies... but as a society, the west never did anything good to them

 

[temptotalk]

But they don't get fed; they don't get proper medicines; they don't get help when raped, tortured, etc.

Slaughters are common occurrences in parts of Africa. We just never hear of them in the media (out of sight, out of mind). I spent time in Haiti and came back in shock for two weeks.

Anyways, I'm well aware of the corruption of Western governments and organizations (I'm the last person who needs lectured on this subject). It doesn't mean that Western people, (if you'd like a better word), have never done any good to help the Third World. In fact, they are those who have made real differences in the lives of the poorest of the poor. Sadly, it's never enough - not even close to rectifying the underlying problems that lead to the scourge of the innocent.

Seriously, help those in need. You'll be a better person for it. Don't look at it as if you can right the world's injustices over night. You just do the little you can do in your little corner of the world. Trust me, there are limits, but you don't think of them when you're helping those in desperate need.

I'm not a cold and callous person with regard to refugees. We have to have our guards up, nonetheless, when we help as we have to think of the safety of ourselves and our own families (unless you're all-giving and want to make the ultimate sacrifice).

Not sure Africa would be a economically thriving and socially civilized continent without any Western or Chinese intervention, but...(we'll just leave things at that).

Good night.

Just ma 2 cents but the way i've heard it, boarders were already very secure. And anti-terrorism agencies were working very hard for stuff and people not to blow up. Long story short, is there really a need for the extra sauce?

 

[rbkwp]

related

we have our own migrant problems in this region
i would give refuge to the rohingyars myself ..
in saying tyhat, i note bobel winner Myanmars Su Yi still hasent said a word re there plight
still trying to negotiate with the Myanmar military, despite her resounding win at the election ..
NZs being shilded by Australia re the boat situation, dont know if its a dood thing or not

Thailand cracks down on traffickers amid migration crisis

Published on Dec 4, 2015
Thailand is hosting a conference on the regional human trafficking crisis. It's also created a special court to tackle the issue. But some feel this only addresses part of the problem. reports from Bangkok.

 

[rbkwp]

, preparing for summer already maybe ..
inevitable!

REFUGEES
Macedonia border closure leaves refugees with no hope

Thousands stuck at Macedonia's border with Greece as Skopje classifies them as "economic migrants".

Patrick Strickland | 05 Dec 2015 14:37 GMT | Refugees, War & Conflict, Politics, Europe,Macedonia

An estimated 3,000 asylum seekers are stuck at Macedonia's border with Greece [Sorin Furcoi/Al Jazeera]
Idomeni, Greece - Makeshift camps and flimsy tents are scattered along the train tracks leading to the Macedonian border, while some families are living in decrepit old train cars.

An abandoned cafe's windows have been smashed out and inside are several tents and wet mattresses.

"Stop Europe's racist borders," graffiti reads on the outside wall. "Hunger," another says plainly, in Arabic.

An estimated 3,000 asylum seekers remain stuck at the Idomeni border crossing in Greece because of Macedonia's refusal to allow entry for those who cannot prove Iraqi, Syrian or Afghan citizenship.

 

[rbkwp]

On the shores of Lesbos: Boats, dinghies and life vests

A variety of watercraft and life vests sit piled on the Lesbos shoreline in silent testimony of lives passing through.

Shttp://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2015/12/shores-lesbos-boats-dinghies-life-vests-151203121941286.html?utm_source=Al+Jazeera+English+Newsletter+%7C+Weekly&utm_campaign=6fcaef2b24-weekly_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e427298a68-6fcaef2b24-224064669

A flimsy dinghy carrying more than 30 Afghani refugees was one of only dozens of boats to arrive on Lesbos after departing from Turkish shores on Wednesday. [Sorin Furcoi/Al Jazeera]

Smugglers are selling life vests to refugees and migrants for hefty fees. Many, however, are simply given inflatable tubes or floaties. [Sorin Furcoi/Al Jazeera]

Australia still in the throes of locking them all away weith a promise to eventually process them huh'

Christmas Island preparing to house more asylum seekers

Immigration Minister Peter Dutton says preparations are underway to accommodate more asylum seekers at Christmas Island in case the Government loses a High Court case against offshore detention.

 

[Boobalaa]

They look so sad

 

[rbkwp]

something will always come up overnight!
WELCOME TO EUROPE alright ..

Beaten, Robbed, Set Upon by Dogs: Welcome to Europe | VICE News

EUROPE

Beaten, Robbed, Set Upon by Dogs: Welcome to Europe
"They hit us mercilessly with branches from trees... and then they robbed us. I remember it clearly."

Afghani Khalid Ahmadi recounted in precise detail the moment he says Bulgarian police ambushed him and others in a forest at night, beating them and stealing their money and mobile phones.

"It comes back to me often," he said, holding back tears. "When they beat me I was extremely frightened and I almost gave up on life. If we had died it would have been better."

Khalid is one of at least 100 refugees and migrants who are entering eastern Europe across the Turkish-Bulgarian border every day.

Photo by Oscar Webb

 

[rbkwp]

 

[rbkwp]

so surprised theres minimal media coverage of the migrant refugee situation

almost as if the Europeans have puurposefully put a media block on the movements and developments of there plight

its not as if the whole issue has just dissapeared off the face of the earth

Turkeys alleged deal with Europe doesnt make a great deal of sense, nor instills any confidence in it

lousy 3 billion that the Eu offered is not going to go anywhere, considering Turley had spent 8 billion on the folk anyway, so they sty, i have no trust in them now anyway?

as i said i am surprised we are not kept up to datedaily like before, re the movements currently of the migrant refugees
very suspicious, to me anyway
bugger the authorities, dont trust any of them ...

and yes i do take a keen interest and want to know how they are faring, and how the individual countruies are ytreating these humans, we deserve to know and be kept up to date, considering the foul treatment dished out to some of them

 

[Perados]

German media still report about the refugees...

Two days ago 14 people died at the try crossing the Mediterranean sea, from Turkey to Greece. 7 Children, one was a baby, died.

I guess two weeks ago (or just one week?), Turkey arrested 1500 refugees, as they tried to make it to Greece. They have been arrested for just one day, but got told if they would try it again, they would get arrested for way longer.

The situation at the Greek Macedonia border seams to escalate. More and more people wait at the border, Greece is no longer able to get them back to Athen. Fights between refugees and the police happen more often.

Since Macedonia closed it's border for every refugee NOT from Syria, Greece asks the EU for help to protect it's border with Turkey.
As long as the border was open and everyone could move from Greece to Germany, Greece refused any help offered by the EU.

The total number of refugees arriving everyday in Germany has gone down. While nearly 10,000 refugees arrived everyday in November, arrive less then 5,000 refugees a day since beginning of December.
This seams to be granted to the winter (even if we still have more then 10°C), and not to any Turkish try to close the border.


Two days ago, the 1,000,000th refugee got registered in Germany, while nearly 300,000 still waiting for their registration. In the next 20 days, around 100,000 refugees will arrive.
This would make a total number of around 1.4 million refugees in 2015.
And against all critics, the German system hasn't collapsed. There was no terror attack done by refugees, or anyone else. The crime hasn't increased, neither did the unemployment. No new debts had to be made by Germany and EVERY economist says in 2016 the German econpmy will have an extra boost, granted to the refugees.
The support for refugees still is high... BUT the attacks on new planed refugee camps (camps where no one lives in) increase as well

 

[rbkwp]

THANKS Pera
exctly the information and news i was thirsting for
thats enlightning reporting of happenings and espescially of your countrys success, i am very pleased
ha'
midnight in NZ and i have been looking for info on them

wife and 7 children gone, boat trip
smugglers say'dont need lifejackets'
desperation to escape, risking families lives ..
scour the media for news ... because of personal interest in there welfare ..

'My family drowned': Syrian refugee on terrible cost of fleeing IS
1 hour ago

Migrant crisis: securing EU borders key for David Cameron

4 December 2015 Last updated at 13:49 GMT

On a visit to Bulgaria, David Cameron has insisted that protecting land and sea borders into the European Union was essential to stemming the flow of migrants.

Mr Cameron went to the country's border with Turkey where a huge fence has been erected and said "lessons could be learnt" from what the country has achieved.

report
1 father not prepared to risk his families life tho!!!


seems some have no desire to remain in Turkey/old news it seems, prior to Eu/TURKEY deal a week ago ..

Migrant crisis: Do Syrian refugees want to leave Turkey?

29 November 2015 Last updated at 05:03 GMT

Leaders from the European Union and Turkey will gather in Brussels on Sunday for a summit on the migration crisis.
Tens of thousands of refugees and migrants have travelled through Turkey to Europe in 2015 so the EU will ask Turkey to better patrol its borders to stem the flow of migration.
In return, Ankara wants €3bn (£2.11bn; $3.17bn) and concessions including allowing Turkish people to travel to Europe without visas.

 

[rbkwp]

reporting appears to have resumed as before after what seemed out here anyway, an approximately 2 week very quiet period ..
admittedly still need to make a concious effort to locate media reports

Eus deal with Turket in force
refugees migration has increased slightly despite winter
people taking a longer route to Lesbos
but intercepted by Turkey and held in camps
UNJ says 30,000 this month
google

Refugees continue sailing to Europe despite recent deal

Last month, the European Union and Turkey reached a deal to stem the flow of refugees coming into Europe.

Ankara was promised an additional $3.2bn to improve the condition of Syrian refugees.

But the deal has actually led to more people sailing to Europe.

related

How have ordinary Syrians been affected by the conflict?

Image copyrightGetty Images
Are there 70,000 Syrian 'moderates' ready to back UK?

• Turkey's downing of Russian warplane - what we know

• Russia to Turkey: Don't try it again

• Was jet downing an overreaction?

More than 250,000 Syrians have lost their lives and more than 11 million have fled their homes in four and a half years of civil war. And in the past year, air strikes against so-called Islamic State (IS) in the country have increased, with the UK recently joining the US-led coalition.

 

[rbkwp]

un related

Banksy mural of Steve Jobs as refugee to be protected

The British graffiti artist's mural of late Apple founder Steve Jobs as a refugee on a wall in the Calais migrant camp in northern France will be protected, along with two other Banksy works in other parts of the city.

 

[rbkwp]

google a further update
while its dropped from 5000 per day to 2000 per day
desoeraton still gets them to make the 1 hour agean sea journey from Turkey to Greece islands
once the smugglers have a boat prepared
wonder why they dont have a conbcentrated effort tyo prevent tyhe smugglers from getting them onto bosts!!
GOOGLE

UN: World's refugees and displaced exceed record number

Published on Dec 18, 2015
The number of people forced to leave their homes this year is likely to exceed all previous records. The report also touches on the impact these numbers have on countries taking in refugees. Turkey alone has taken in almost one point nine million refugees -- mainly Syrians. Al Jazeera's Omar Al Saleh has this report

World's refugees and displaced exceed record 60 million, mainly driven by Syrian conflict
Posted about 4 hours ago

PHOTO: The 60 million figure includes 20.2 million people fleeing wars and persecution. (Reuters: Giorgos Moutafis)
MAP: United States
The number of people forcibly displaced worldwide is likely to have "far surpassed" a record 60 million this year, mainly driven by the Syrian war and other protracted conflicts, the United Nations says.

The estimated figure includes 20.2 million people fleeing wars and persecution, the most since 1992, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) said in a report.

the contribution of migrants to the economy of a country ..
economic development yes/no ..

Inside Story: Are migrants and refugees a benefit or a burden?

Published on Dec 18, 2015
The 2015 has been a difficult year to be a refugee or a migrant.The UN says by the end of the year, war in Syria and elsewhere will have forced more than 60 million people from their homes.The unprecedented movement of people is putting huge pressures on host nations in the Middle East, Europe and elsewhere.It is also creating an increasingly toxic debate around the migration issue, which critics say is based more on rhetoric than reality.And which focuses on the perceived threats to security and the burdens on social services.So why is the debate surrounding migration becoming so politicised? And is the rhetoric obscuring the benefits?Presenter: Folly Bah ThibaultGuests:Jonathan Portes - Principal Research Fellow at the National Institute of Economic and Social ResearchMichelle Leighton - Chief of the Migration Branch at the International Labour OrganizationAlan Mendoza - Founder & Director of the Henry Jackson Society

 

[rbkwp]

nice
to hear that the Syrian people are hopeful
very heartwarming after whast theyve beenb thru/been put thru/been
gaurantee no western nations peoples would have anywhere near such an attitude

the way the westerrn govt instills all sorts of emotional hype and crap into there citizerns lives
ALL Western countries, including dumbarse NZ as well ..

Syrian refugees in Turkish town staying close to home

Published on Dec 19, 2015
Millions of Syrians have been displaced internally and externally by the almost five year long war.In Syria's next-door neighbour Turkey, over two million Syrian refugees live in poverty. Around the ancient of Mardin, just across the border in Turkey, an estimated 30,000 Syrians have temporarily sought shelter. They said they are escaping the civil war but staying close enough that, if peace comes, they can quickly get homeBernard Smith reports from Mardin.

 

[pronatalist]

It is not realistic to have an open-border, no matter how compassionate we feel. Limits must come - period.

Another thing many people around the world don't get: each person can't have 5-10 kids; otherwise, we'll all die from overpopulation as people live longer than ever before.

Be fruitful and multiply and then die and disintegrate.

What they say is that a country can't have both, stupid socialistic policies and open borders. The socialist welfare state and open borders, are incompatible.

Everybody can enjoy having their naturally-big families, but we need free markets that encourage people to ever do the work needed to support the growing populations of the world.

 

[Perados]

What they say is that a country can't have both, stupid socialistic policies and open borders. The socialist welfare state and open borders, are incompatible.

maybe you should try SMART socialistic policy...
Socialistic welfare is the most easy way for integration and social freedom / peace [/quote]

Everybody can enjoy having their naturally-big families, but we need free markets that encourage people to ever do the work needed to support the growing populations of the world.[/QUOTE]free market is only an answer as long as the market works... and currently do more and more fail