700 Billion dollar bailout my ass

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_VictorVikkiTielVictoria, Sep 25, 2008.

  1. D_VictorVikkiTielVictoria

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    All that money will do is bailout the assholes that stole our money to begin with..if that.
    It won't help the middle class whatsoever.
    This "PLAN" will not work
    They have raped,plundered, and bled this country for every cent they can get their grimy hands on, and still want more.
    These rich bastards should all be in jail to rot and die like dogs.
    And I mean REAL jail among the rapists and murderers, you know, where ("ACCIDENTS")just happen... not some fucking country club.
    Lousy cocksuckers..And I don't mean that in a good way either
     
  2. Flashy

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    no, it will not just "bailout the assholes".

    you obviously have no comprehension of the financial markets.

    the credit markets are completely frozen, and this is needed to grease the wheels.

    these "assholes" and by "assholes" you are referring to the *ENTIRE* mortgage lending industry, that cuts across all financial companies, mortgage companies, insurance companies, and all companies who have or own mortgage lending subsidies, who employ literally 100s of thousands of hard-working americans.

    the credit markets are a large wheel/circle that goes around in a circle, and right now it is completely stuck...what this bailout will do is reset the wheel back to zero and restart it.

    it has *NOTHING* to do with bailing out "assholes"...it has to do with *SAVING* this country from slipping into a potential depression.

    I worked in the financial markets for 10 years...this is absolutely essential to save the economy, and this country from slipping further into the worst financial crisis and chaos all of use have seen in our lifetimes....

    this is one of the most important financial moments in american history.

    buy a clue.
     
  3. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    That's a good assessment, Flashy.

    Paulson, please add to your list of 'assholes' -- General contractors, home improvement companies, Home Depot, Lowe's, appraisers, title agencies, abstractors, window companies, furniture stores and employees, credit bureaus, real estate agents, condo developers, home builders, real estate investors, credit unions, finance companies....the list goes on and on.
     
  4. tripod

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    Why y'all wanna jump all over Meatloaf?

    I don't own a home and fucking resent having to foot my $2200 worth of my tax money to bail out investment bankers who thought that they could get away with murder.

    Yeah, I have a few credit cards, but I pays my bills and they make fucking MAD money off of me.

    Wall Street is full of a bunch of liars and cheats... fucking criminals with little to no ethics.

    They don't deserve one red cent from me.
     
  5. Phil Ayesho

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    Look-
    IT was a graft-a-palooza...

    Greed is not only in the board room.

    The de-regualtion ALLOWED people all up and down the economic ladder to take advantage of a KIND of lending that was PREVIOUSLY illegal- forbidden, outlawed because past experience had PROVEN it resulted in exactly what it HAS resulted in... again.


    The same kind of willynilly, un-regulated lending that caused the crash of 29 and the S&L crisis of 89. The same kind of thing that caused the energy market escalations of 2002.
    Why the republicans seem unable to learn from history I don't know... but I do know and I suspect they knew that allowing this kind of lending ALWAYS results in a speculation frenzy.
    Which- in economic stats LOOKS like a surge in GNP. But its a FAKE surge.

    The bottom line-- for a SHORT time- 6 or 7 years at most, it results in HUGE wealth acquisition for the people who OWN the companies involved.

    If you were a home builder- you made out- as long as you didn't sink TOO much of your own money back into more homes too long...or didn't invest it in the mortgage fund stocks.

    The Directors of the failed companies wrote themselves huge bonuses and paycheck and parachutes-
    but you have to realize that the money they TOOK out of the game was only a small amount of the money in play that evaporated.

    They created a bunch of jobs- from home depot all the way up to stock brokers... many of those jobs will now be lost and the money those people pushed thru the economy will not be coming in anymore- which affects other businesses and their employees..


    Worst of all- because it was ALL borrowed money- it could cause a total collapse of banks nationwide- which WOULD overwhelm the FDIC and result in Every American's every dollar in every bank vanishing overnight...
    MAking us all flat broke.

    And then what?


    NO- unfortunately the SCOPE of the disater is far too vast- the economy far too inter-reliant..

    The fuck ups who made this happen gave us no REAL option to not bail them out.


    But keep in mind that the folks REALLY to blame are the ones who de-regualted the market.

    The Free Market dimwits who supplant evidence with religious faith in an idea that keeps failing every test.

    The folks who DID the unscrupulous deals were simply behaving like ANY group of people trying to make a living would- they acted in self interest to grab all they could...

    The GOVERNMENT said they could when the govenrment removed the regulation that said they couldn't.


    YOu can count on folks to be greedy--- you can count on a certain percentage to act unethically.


    You DON'T give them free rein toact that way without oversight and constraint.

    De- regulating the market is PRECISELY the same thing as ELIMINATING the police.

    That, too, would result in an invisible hand that would eventually find a new balance...
    A balance of terror and predation.
     
  6. Qua

    Qua
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    Preventing credit from freezing up won't help the middle class at all :rolleyes:

    Not trying to remove or place blame...but if you can't see how keeping the financial channels working helps the middle class (and EVERYONE ELSE) then I don't know if anyone can help you
     
  7. Nrets

    Nrets Member

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    Did you lose a job due to this crisis? Or are you angry on behalf of all the bullshit that has gone down and the incredible amount of BS that is about to go down? Either way, I like your cry for blood.
     
  8. marleyisalegend

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    ^I feel ya. A lot of people are putting total faith in the same system that just collapsed all over everybody. A lot of people are going "Hey, it's okay, Washington is taking care of it!" "It's all right, Bush is on the job!" Oh really? I feel SO much better now.

    If you were fine before and during this crisis, you'll probably be fine after.

    There are lots of lives that need a helluva lot more of a push than "hey, credit is being unfrozen!" Call me skeptical but I imagine the people who need credit won't have access to it once things keel over. The demographic that needs it is the same one that helped usher in this mess. A (good-sized) handful of bad apples have spoiled the bunch.
     
    #8 marleyisalegend, Sep 25, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2008
  9. davec94

    davec94 Member

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  10. Flashy

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    unsurprisingly marley, you know fuck-all about the credit and financial markets.

    you have legitimate gripes when you normally begin shrieking about racism or god knows what, and when you have experienced that, by all means, your opinion is relevant, but you know absolutely nothing about the financial markets...*NOTHING*

    and the whole "blame the rich, blame the executives, blame Bush blah blah blah" is a tiresome, not to mention incorrect and ignorant refrain.

    if you knew *ANYTHING*, your absurdly trite "hey credit is being unfrozen" jibe would not seem merely as amusing to you as it did when you wrote it.

    the people who "need credit" are precisely the people who this crisis has *FROZEN*...so yes, unfreezing the *PARALYZED* credit market, *WILL* affect people who could not afford to purchase homes because they were not reliable debtors, yet got loans through sub-prime mortgages, and whose home value has now plummeted to far less than the value of the mortgages they took out that they could not afford...

    this whole collapse has to do with lenders (those meanies) writing 100s of billions of risky sub-prime loans, made easier to write by deregulation brought about with the help of people in both parties influenced by money from wall street and mortgage firms like oh i don't know, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, and those loans made to folks who were too risky to get regular loans...(you know, those folks that people like the Clintons, and democrats who say that everyone, even folks without the means should be able to get loans to buy homes, to create equity even if they don't have the money...remember those sweet fannie mae and freddie mac commercials from the Clinton years, where the low income family moves into the nice suburban neighborhood even though they had virtually no credit, but now they are happy because they have their own home?) and what happens when people who cannot *afford* loans (the downtrodden or less well off who "deserve" credit, according to the democrats) and the sub-prime lenders (the"rich" lenders who are "predatory" for now offering money to credit risks, since they have less regulations to do so) find themselves over the barrel in an economy where the credit markets have frozen and are on the verge of total collapse.


    so yes Marley "credit being unfrozen", is in fact quite a big deal, to save our entire economy from a complete collapse, because you cannot bother to understand the difference between your personal prejudices and the facts that both the democrats and republicans, the sub prime lenders and the poor downtrodden credit risk people and families, many of whom are poor and middle class have all contributed to this unmitigated disaster.

    and the credit markets being unfrozen from their paralysis and teetering on the verg of total collapse state, is in fact a good thing, not a bad thing...

    and if you paid any attention, you would understand that is why Dodd and Schumer were in the process of demanding foreclosure protection for all those millions of credit risk families who have now lost, are losing or will lose the homes that they could not afford in the first place.

    so the next time one of you wants to dump the blame on the republicans, or those evil wall streeters or mortgage lenders, remember this:

    it takes two to tango.

    -it takes a republican to want deregulation of the sub-prime markets
    -it take a democrat to want a credit risk, poorer family to have the ability to get a home mortgage much easier than before, through a big lender, like say Freddie MAc or Fannie Mae

    -it takes a poor or middle calss family, without the means to afford a housing mortgage, who now, with the support of sweet good natured, supportive democrats who want the best for all the good folks, to go and get themselves a big mortgage on their dream home, value of say $250,000...for which they need to put up only say $25,000

    -it then takes a big "mean" lending institutuion, who emplys tens of thousands of americans to say "hmmm, well our business is lending, and the sub-prime market is deregulated, so we can offer a previously unfeasible and inadvisable loan to folks who might not be able to afford it, because the republicans say we can, and the democrats say these people deserve to own their own home even though they can't really afford it...so let's do it!...these folks will get their brand new out of reach dream home, we will make a higher rate than on normal loans because of the risk...and ideally everyonne is happy!!!!!"

    Unfortunately, neither the creditors nor the debtors, the democrats or the republicans foresaw the housing market collapse and bingo, everyone is covered with shit...if you were not a sub-prime lender, or a sub-prime debtor, then this was not in fact your fault. Since most sub-prime debtors were people who did not have enough credit or money to get a conventional loan, they are the ones who took advantage of the lax credit environment of the sub-prime market, along with the lenders, to make a buck or buy a home...which happens to be what most americans do. show me the last time an american doesn't take advantage of a chance to make money or buy something on credit that maybe they shouldn't have.

    Everyone else is covered in the shit from both the lenders and debtors taking advantage of something they knew was a big risk but they were greedy enough to want.

    that is the risk/reward chance you take, and both lost their shirts and it is affecting everyone else.

    so now, when you have Dodd and Schumer whining that the folks who did not have the credit for the loans they received, should get to actually keep the homes they could not and cannot afford, because the home mortgage is 225,000 and the value of the home has now fallen to 100,000 because they must be protected alongside the lending institutions, who were given incentives in this risky and relatively unregulated lending sector to actually make loans such as this which is exactly the point of the existence of the sub-prime market, you will forgive me if i don't think of the "poor and downtrodden" first...since the taxpayers are going to be paying for the bailout for *THEIR* homes, that they got on *THEIR* crappy credit, which should not have been loaned to them in the first place.

    what is going on *NOW* is both parties covering their asses for an entire sector of the economy, the sub-prime lenders and debtors, that has led us to collapse, because *BOTH* parties should have know better.

    now the rest of us have to bail out those folks who wanted to take advantage of a sector of the credit market that both parties promoted as a means of profiting for getting essentially something for nothing (debtors for being allowed to buy homes they cannot afford at the government's urging, and creditors for lending the money they know will likely have a higher risk even in a normal credit market, with the knowledge that the government deregulation offers a large area for profit from this)

    so now the bill falls on everyone else to bail out the institutions and the folks who could not afford to take out those loans but still did, and the two parties that allowed this mess to happen with their absurd philosophies about deregulation (republicans) and what people actually deserve credit (democrats)

    both parties fucked this up royally, along with the lendors and debtors who scrambled in with $$$$$$$ in their eyes.

    so *THAT* is why your retarded last paragraph, MArley, should give you pause when you talk about ""hey, credit is being unfrozen!"....because those who needed the credit that you now decry them not being able to get, are precisely part of the "bad apples" you so eloquently referred to. The demographic you described as needing it the most, are the people you normally canonize as being the downtrodden and exploited...because they were the ones who tried to take advantage of getting sub-prime loans...they are just as much at fault as those who loaned them the money.

    *THAT* is why the credit markets being unfrozen is a big deal, since it is frozen and paralyzed, because the credit markets affect *EVERYTHING* not just all those bad apples you describe.

    so the next time you go on one of your rants marley, at least know what the fuck you are talking about.
     
  11. lucky8

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    Not to defend anyone here, but let's keep it real, to be blunt about it...many of the people who are feeling the credit crunch probably won't be able to get much credit after this because their credit score will be so low they won't qualify for new credit...it's a legitamate concern in my opinion.

    This whole mess is a double edged sword. If we don't proceed with a bailout, a very large amount of firms will fail causing a loss of so many other things I'm not even going to list them, but if we do proceed with a bailout, we pay more taxes and aren't even remotely guarenteed things will work out for A)the companies and B)the benefit of the citizens
     
  12. tripod

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    So this economic crisis is due solely to the sub prime mortgage schemes?

    I don't think that is true.

    Those mortgage brokers fucking RAKED it in by screwing these risky credit borrowers with fixed rates that turned into variable rates after a couple of years into the mortgage.

    It is THE MORTGAGE industries greed that led to the sub prime market... don't fucking blame hard working Americans for doing what the goddamn president told them to do with his stupid ass "ownership society". He told the American people to go out and buy a home... fucking period, end of story. The mortgage industry saw dollar signs when they wrote these sub prime loans with their clever contracts and fixed rates that turned into variable rates.

    And you wanna blame Democrats... give me a fucking break.What kind of an asshole would lend someone money on a house at a fixed rate and then have it turn into a variable rate after 36 months anyway?

    Gettin' your bigger and fatter commission because you screwed the borrower over... what a sweet and humane industry. :mad:
     
  13. atomicTIGER

    atomicTIGER New Member

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    I have a short simple solution--AND IT WOULD work..OK here it is..We should bail out all the troubled companies--BUT at the same time EACH and EVERY ONE of the bastards in charge of the failing companies will go DIRECTLY to a tented prison camp in the desert--no trial-- NO NOTHING, ALL of their assets frozen and then sold to pay the bailout..And after all that money is collected it will probably nearly pay off the $700 billion. If it is short of paying the bail out what will happen is the prisonors still all sitting in prison tents in the desert--they will need to make shoes of weave baskets or something to sell until the money is paid in full. And when the money is paid in full they will be allowed to get a job at McDonalds ONLY no where else and not be allowed to own a house or car and not be allowed to invest in ANYTHING!! And then they die.
     
  14. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Poetic and just. You guys have internet access from prison now?
     
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