9/11 2010 A day of remembrance.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by maxcok, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere

    I'm remembering today how nine years ago two little planes brought down the World Trade Center, that imposing symbol of American capitalism.

    I'm remembering how a former president famously stated, "They hate us for our freedoms", as his administration began to systematically chip away at them.

    I'm remembering how that same president exhorted Americans to "go shopping" to show the 'terrists' what we're made of.

    I'm remembering how seven years later the economies of the US and the world came crashing down from their pillars of unrestrained capitalism.

    I'm remembering how another plane slammed into the Pentagon, a poke in the eye of the US military.

    I'm remembering how 'freedom loving' Americans armed with cooked intelligence and nationalistic fervor invaded a sovereign nation completely unconnected to the events.

    I'm noting how easy it is for a free people in a free society with a free press to gobble up the blatant lies told to them and acquiese to tyranny and propaganda.

    I'm reflecting on how our leaders capitalized on a wave of patriotism sweeping the nation to pursue a nefarious agenda.

    I'm reflecting on how those same leaders squandered the sympathy and global good will extended to us and flexed their military muscle for expansionist ends.

    I'm pondering how America's "War on Terrorism" has failed, engendering hatred throughout the world and inspiring legions of 'fanatics' to resist us.

    I'm observing how citizens of this 'Christian' nation deride the theocratic autocratic governments of the Middle East and tremble in fear at the prospect of sharia law being imposed on our shores.

    I'm watching as we square off nose to nose, screaming about freedom, religious tolerance, and what it means to be an American across a movable police barricade.

    I'm staring in dumb and helpless horror as we tear each other apart from the inside, not noticing as our once great nation disintegrates and slowly slides away.

    I'm remembering those thousands of souls lost on that tragic day and wondering what they would think watching us.

    I'm remembering how nine years ago that former president with Wild West swagger swore to get the architect of this terrible tragedy "dead or alive".

    I'm remembering today how nine years ago two little planes brought down the World Trade Center.

    I'm wondering if Osama bin Laden is marking the day in a cave on the border of Pakistan and laughing at us.

    It's a very sad day in America.
     
    #1 maxcok, Sep 11, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2010
  2. nudeyorker

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    42,918
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC/Honolulu
    I'm remembering my five friends who died along with the many others that day and not really giving a crap about the rest of your tirade. Sorry maybe I'll reread what you wrote tomorrow if I'm feeling less depressed.
     
  3. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    I'm sorry you see it as a tirade. I had friends that died that day too. I don't think it dishonors them at all to reflect honestly on where our response to the events have brought us, and how it has undermined everything we're supposed to stand for. In my mind the best way to honor those lost would be to return to the very ideals and values that the terrorists were supposedly trying to destroy, which oddly enough, we seem determined to destroy all on our own. I don't think reflecting on this dishonors them at all. In my mind, it is quite the opposite.

    We should not let the terrorists win, and we sure as hell shouldn't be helping them.

    That was my point. I'm sorry you missed it.

     
    #3 maxcok, Sep 11, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2010
  4. Joll

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    14,509
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    723
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wales (GB)
    Not sure I'm in agreement with the latter part of the post - some of it perhaps. It is well written though - thought you'd pinched it from somewhere actually. ;)

    I remember the immediate rallying response of Americans and their friends around the world. I do feel the War on Terror was overcooked and mishandled, but perhaps understandably (apart from Iraq, and any oil issues). Umm...I don't think America's turned into a terrible place since then, just perhaps more defensive. Also, fundamentalist types, such as the Qu'ran burning dude have always been around in the US and UK - so I guess it's just one more thing for them to get in a twist about.

    Actually, when I first saw the attacks on TV, I didn't realise what had happened. I had the sound down on the telly, and saw a pic of NY covered in what looked like smog, with a small pic of Tony Blair giving an announcement. My first response was to groan because I thought he was giving you another lecture on climate change. :/

    @Nudey - Had no idea you'd lost so many friends in 9/11, dude. :/ That's awful.
     
    #4 Joll, Sep 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2010
  5. chicagosam

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    15,029
    Likes Received:
    761
    And my thoughts have been with you today as I know how difficult this day is for you.

    It's a day to remember those who were lost, those that have lost, those that are feeling loss, and to put politics aside. Nine years have not lessened the horror and emotional pain of that day.

    On The Transmigration of Souls
    Composer: John Adams
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6nrJ3ByzzE

    A Hymn for the Lost and the Living

    Composer: Eric Ewazen
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM_GOOYfC8g
     
  6. luna1388888888

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    39
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Longbeach,MS text me 12285964558 anytime
    Those who lost there live's and the families should never be forgotton.A horrible day in america's history and i will never forget.
     
  7. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    And there's been plenty of that today, and I've had my own tears and sad reflections focused on the past. However, I've also been overwhelmed with reflections on where we've come since, as a direct consequence of misguided reactions to that tragic event. I can't help reflecting on how our responses have undermined our own values, shattered our image on the world stage, and thereby ironically helped the terrorists achieve their goals.

    Even nine years on, I still don't hear anyone even acknowledge these questions, and not to examine them allows us to continue down the same self-destructive path. The few who have broached the subject have suffered slings and arrows for their political incorrectness, so I don't expect to be greeted here with "flowers and candy", to borrow a phrase from the fairly recent past. For myself, I think the best way we could honor the victims and move forward would be to consciously uphold the values and principles the terrorists supposedly hate us for and are determined to destroy, rather than playing into the image they have created for us.

    When do you think would be an appropriate time to discuss this? Or should we continue to ignore it and sweep it under the rug? Maybe the media will tell us when the time is right. I thought it might be appropriate to bring it up late in the day, after people had had time to grieve, but while our minds are still on the event, not after we've moved on and are distracted by a thousand other issues and concerns.
     
    #7 maxcok, Sep 11, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2010
  8. gymfresh

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,659
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rodinia
    Verified:
    Photo
    What I won't forget is how the world was just as shocked and saddened as we were and seemed ready to forgive the US any past transgressions. It's like everything was starting anew. It was a blank slate for us to write large for the world who we wanted to be and how we would earn that respect.

    9/11 was a renewal and rebirth opportunity like this country had never seen in modern times. Honestly a tabula rasa, with the big looming question: will we come out of this a freshly united nation and a noble colleague on the world stage? Dust ourselves off, say "We didn't deserve that", and turn the other cheek?
     
  9. b.c.

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    9,266
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    at home
    ^What I remember is the anger those images caused me to feel, as the day's events unfolded... as they still do to this day. Don't know if I quite agree with that "turning the other cheek" stuff.

    I think we're about plumb out of "cheeks", mate.
     
  10. SilverTrain

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    4,582
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    404
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Apart from all the thoughts and feelings I had with regard to the actual horrible and tragic events themselves, I, too, so deeply and angrily regretted this in the weeks and months following 9/11. Such an amazing opportunity, so cynically and greedily squandered. And the sting in the tail is that all the lost potential, so much "good" willfully, EAGERLY, cast away--and the only gain was a padding of the bottom line for the in-crowd's financial portfolios.

    Nevertheless, I am in agreement with the notion that politics ought be laid aside on this day.
     
  11. gymfresh

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,659
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rodinia
    Verified:
    Photo
    There was no way I was "naming names" on 9/11. But it's September 12th now in New York, and...
     
  12. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    I looked at a few online news stories this evening about the commemorations. It still upsets me. And, it's also my birthday.
     
  13. Mensch1351

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    24
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In the only other State that begins with "K"!
    I couldn't agree more with you. I've often wondered how our standing in the world would NOW be if we'd have re-dedicated ourselves to helping the world fight the REAL terrorist enemies of poverty, hunger, and disease. (A trillion dollars would certainly have gone a long way). My thoughts on "Bush's" war have been so mixed but I truly believe we made a HUGE HUGE mistake. We're fighting a "phantom" not a nation! And the "battlegrounds" are the world over -- not just Afghanistan, Iraq and God knows where the other terrorist cells can operate! When the war with Iraq broke out, I told the "old" people where I work, "This is a huge mistake. George Bush will multiply the terrorist cause a thousand fold for what he's done just to get personal revenge on SHussein. For the trickle of blood we've watched shed on 9/11 -- we're going to see an OCEAN of blood shed over this mistake. We should have shown the world our metal after 9/11, swallowed the thirst for revenge and re-dedicated ourselves to saving the world instead of policing it." Maybe I'm naive in believing that good should be able to triumph over the acts of murderous cowards who "call" themselves patriots for THEIR cause. But I believe a great deal of the Muslim world felt shame for what their extremists caused in New York. And they would have been willing to partner with us in making sure that terrorism was met head-on in a world wide effort. Anway -- thanks for posting a thought I've had for a long time!
     
  14. gymfresh

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,659
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rodinia
    Verified:
    Photo
    Hey, happy birthday, dude.
     
  15. HazelGod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,531
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Other Side of the Pillow
    I liked it, max...well done.
     
  16. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    For mature, serious, and thoughtful people it would have never been too early. Such issues needed, and need, to be discussed openly and honestly, with sufficient self-examination as a nation, with just as much awareness as with that of our outrage and grief.

    Given the circumstances, I admit that I myself never gave critical thought to the October 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, but now wonder whether it was even truly necessary, or wise. And I, plainly and simply, could never stand George W. Bush.

     
    #16 B_RedDude, Sep 12, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  17. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Thanks, GymFresh. I hope it didn't seem self-absorbed to include that here. But I can tell you that in the follow up to those tragic events I truly got sick of hearing "9/11, 9/11, 9/11" for months on end. I felt like, "STFU, that's my birthday, for Christ's sake." After the first couple of years, it's been okay. On the first anniversary in the early evening I went to a memorial concert given by the San Francisco Symphony in our most beautiful urban park, which I felt was a perfect way to observe the day, and at which the lovely Joshua Bell was present and played Barber's "Adagio for Strings".

     
    #17 B_RedDude, Sep 12, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  18. gymfresh

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,659
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rodinia
    Verified:
    Photo
    Instead of revenge, the attacks 9 years ago should have been a time for open dialogue and reflection about what could have led to that dramatic point. Instead, our leaders said, "They must hate us for our freedoms!" ("Don't hate me because I'm beautiful, I can't help it") It was the most arrogant response to a humbling moment, and a missed opportunity. Every righteous soul in the world stood with us then; it took only a couple of years to squander that.

    A group of delusional Saudi religious extremists, possibly led by a guy in a cave in Afghanistan, murdered people and destroyed property. So in return we...

    toppled the government of Iraq. SRSLY? WTF? It may have made sense politically at home, but once off our shores it looked transparently wrong. And 9/11 would forever go down as the annual flashpoint to get folks all riled up about the latest bogeyman. Just how long are we gonna pick that scab? Politicians need to leave us to our private remembrances and never, ever bring up that event again.
     
  19. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    It's funny. I was at a conference in NYC in 2000 after not having been there for many years, and remember feeling offended at the presence of the WTC, which I had visited many years before. I thought of it as and felt it to be a symbol of "America the Colossus". But after those planes crashed into those very structures I felt anger, and today I still felt violated by those attacks.

     
    #19 B_RedDude, Sep 12, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  20. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    That mirrors my thought, Red. Thank you for saying it for me.

    Cheers! :party2: .My grandma's birthday was Pearl Harbor Day. The old gal still managed to have a rip roarin time.
    .......................(I was wondering today how long before the observance of 9/11 is on par with the observance of Pearl Harbor.)

    I thought you would. Thanks for saying so. You're a big man, HG. :wink:
     
    #20 maxcok, Sep 12, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
Draft saved Draft deleted