9/11 an Inside Job?

[D_N Flay Table]

First off...
I posed a question to the group. everyone has a different answer, and trying to sway one person one way or the other on an issue as heated as this is much like trying to get someone to convert religions.

that being said..
The comment.
"I knew you were smarter than that"

I take personal offense too. I have NEVER attacked anyone physical looks, or mental capacity on this site.. EVER.

And people have said some pretty silly things.

With THAT being said...

It is true... I do not hold a degree in physics.. or any sort of advanced math.
I went to school for arts and music.

but since I respect that fact that science does rule over everything..
I will post the writings of Steven E. Jones. Retired professor of Physics of Brigham Young.

In this paper I question the “official” story that the collapses of the high-rise World Trade Center buildings on 9-11-01 were

 

[D_N Flay Table]

for more information of the physics of 9/11 and views from both sides of the fence. you may visit. Physics911, by Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven, 9/11/2001

 

[11incher]

I am neither an engineer nor a chemist just a lawyer so I have no expertise in structural steel or chemical breakdown of what it takes for steel to melt.

What I do know is that guilty people talk and for anyone to pull of conspiracy of this size it would have to take 100's if not 1000's of people. How can anyone explain that not one tip or leak has come forward in over 5 years?

 

[Nitrofiend]

First off...
I posed a question to the group. everyone has a different answer, and trying to sway one person one way or the other on an issue as heated as this is much like trying to get someone to convert religions.

that being said..
The comment.
"I knew you were smarter than that"

I take personal offense too. I have NEVER attacked anyone physical looks, or mental capacity on this site.. EVER.

And people have said some pretty silly things.

With THAT being said...

It is true... I do not hold a degree in physics.. or any sort of advanced math.
I went to school for arts and music.

but since I respect that fact that science does rule over everything..
I will post the writings of Steven E. Jones. Retired professor of Physics of Brigham Young.

In this paper I question the “official” story that the collapses of the high-rise World Trade Center buildings on 9-11-01 were

Steven E. Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^The entire engineering community have distanced themselves from his theories and approach them with a lot of scrutiny. I don't suppose the government paid them all off too?

Just to use an ad hominem argument, this also happens to be a guy who believed he created cold fusion. He was apparently an avid Bush supporter too.

Plus, he mentions no specific peer in his "peer-reviewed" paper. David Ray Griffin (the person who apparently edited Jones' paper) doesn't count because he's merely a retired professor of theology and religion -- hardly a scholarly proponent of science. I wouldn't surprised if he added some his own spin in there a bit...

Whatever. Believe what you want to believe. It doesn't change anything. Towers 1, 2, and 7 are down, thousands are dead directly and indirectly as a result, and there's a war elsewhere to devote our sleuthing efforts toward.

 

[tripod]

I am neither an engineer nor a chemist just a lawyer so I have no expertise in structural steel or chemical breakdown of what it takes for steel to melt.

What I do know is that guilty people talk and for anyone to pull of conspiracy of this size it would have to take 100's if not 1000's of people. How can anyone explain that not one tip or leak has come forward in over 5 years?

Well... that is a good point, but the penalty of death will always keep one's mouth shut! Not that I am saying that is what is going on... but, with special ops and CIA agants involved (if they even were), they would kill anyone who threatened National Security!

 

[tripod]

for more information of the physics of 9/11 and views from both sides of the fence. you may visit. Physics911, by Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven, 9/11/2001

Excellent link!

 

[meatpackingbubba]

My God, there are a lot of stupid people out there.

 

[tripod]

Steven E. Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^The entire engineering community have distanced themselves from his theories and approach them with a lot of scrutiny. I don't suppose the government paid them all off too?

Just to use an ad hominem argument, this also happens to be a guy who believed he created cold fusion. He was apparently an avid Bush supporter too.

Plus, he mentions no specific peer in his "peer-reviewed" paper. David Ray Griffin (the person who apparently edited Jones' paper) doesn't count because he's merely a retired professor of theology and religion -- hardly a scholarly proponent of science. I wouldn't surprised if he added some his own spin in there a bit...

Whatever. Believe what you want to believe. It doesn't change anything. Towers 1, 2, and 7 are down, thousands are dead directly and indirectly as a result, and there's a war elsewhere to devote our sleuthing efforts toward.

Fantastic information Nitrofiend! I think that most of the conspiracy theorists would do well to make it clear (DJG is a VERY intelligent man) that they actually are SPECULATING and really have no idea what ACTUALLY happened (besides what we saw with our own eyes). DJG and I are just searching for answers and this hopefully will be sorted out in the near future! I am TOTALLY open to it being the terrorists and there being no conspiracy at all... we just don't trust the CIA, the Neocons, AIPAC, Bush and his minions, Black Ops and the like, and see that 9/11 was the greatest gift to this administration could ever get! It's helpful guys like Niotrofiend that keep us conspiracy theorists heading in the right direction, and not losing our minds on little details like explosives, that are meaningless and can never be proved!!!!

 

[D_N Flay Table]

Steven E. Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^The entire engineering community have distanced themselves from his theories and approach them with a lot of scrutiny. I don't suppose the government paid them all off too?

Just to use an ad hominem argument, this also happens to be a guy who believed he created cold fusion. He was apparently an avid Bush supporter too.

Plus, he mentions no specific peer in his "peer-reviewed" paper. David Ray Griffin (the person who apparently edited Jones' paper) doesn't count because he's merely a retired professor of theology and religion -- hardly a scholarly proponent of science. I wouldn't surprised if he added some his own spin in there a bit...

Whatever. Believe what you want to believe. It doesn't change anything. Towers 1, 2, and 7 are down, thousands are dead directly and indirectly as a result, and there's a war elsewhere to devote our sleuthing efforts toward.

You can put your personal feelings here all you want, that is what this board is for..
however..
your right about one thing..
we do have a war on now..
a war that has cost the american people as of today 3118 of its men and women.
and countless numbers of innocent Iraqis.




and dont worry, soon we will also be at war with Iran..
I just hope, for the younger generation that the draft isn't reinstated.

 

[Nitrofiend]

At least we have more reason to war with Iran than Iraq.

 

[D_N Flay Table]

At least we have more reason to war with Iran than Iraq.

Oh really?
care to enlighten me on that?

 

[duderino]

Ehhh. This is the last place I thought I'd see this bullshit. Honestly. First off: Please. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal. I voted for Gore, then Kerry. I've been an outspoken critic of the Bush White House. Why? Because Bush is a mother fucking idiot.

And that's precisely the point the 9/11 con theorists miss.

Come on. Seriously. Come on. I live in New York. I watched the towers collapse (yes, and number 7), not through a telephoto zoom lens on my television screen, but with my eyes, in 3D, in REAL LIFE. It was as horifying an experience as I can possibly comprehend. Not once, EVER, have I ever thought for a moment that anything other than two fuel-laden passenger jets were responsible for the collapse. And to the people who don't understand WTC 7: Notice how none of the conspiracy literature ever shows you the relative heights of the towers vs. WTC7 -- it only shows you the distance (from above)? Right...because the towers were more than TWICE as tall as WTC 7 -- and, if you ever take the time to actually venture to ground zero, you'll see that it's amazing that WTC 7 wasn't demolished in the initial collapse of the towers. It's a miracle it lasted as long as it did.

And, by the way guys, talk to your local fire department and ask them what it means to them when their commander tells them to "pull it." (Yeah, context is a bitch.)

But honestly, Bush, this?!? Come ON! The guy can barely eat a pretzel!

 

[meatpackingbubba]

Conspiracy theories work well for people who don't have the ability to think for themselves.

 

[madame_zora]

I think it's unfair to say that the entire engineering community has dismissed Steven Jones wholesale. I'm not aware of getting any group to agree that unanimously on anything.

While I certainly am not an expert on civil engineering, and may in fact be nothing more than a crackpot, I can recognise a sweeping generalisation when I see one.

Here's another pov:

How Hot Did The Jet Fuel Heat The World Trade Center?

Also, the fact that Brignham Young denied the paper still doesn't mean they've credibly weighed all of his proposals.


Brigham Young University doesn't want anything to do with the paper.

A few department chairmen at Jones' university have issued critical statements, though none of these has yet addressed any of the points which Jones made in his paper and at his presentation at BYU. Chairman of the BYU department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Dr. Miller, is on record stating in an e-mail, "I think without exception, the structural engineering professors in our department are not in agreement with the claims made by Jones in his paper, and they don't think there is accuracy and validity to these claims".​

The BYU physics department has also issued a statement: "The university is aware that Professor Steven Jones' hypotheses and interpretations of evidence regarding the collapse of World Trade Center buildings are being questioned by a number of scholars and practitioners, including many of BYU's own faculty members. Professor Jones' department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review." The College of Engineering and Technology department has also added, "The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones."​

I don't find it all that compelling that they don't think there is accuracy to the claims, I would be happy to read where someone is actually addressing the points raised, who offers a different scientific view.​

Jones isn't the only scientist who found the official explaination problematic though, and I'm certainly not trying to support his conclusions necessarily.​

Kevin Ryan, Jim Hoffman, David Ray Griffin and Webster Griffin Tarpley. In making their case, they often emphasize the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, which was not hit by a plane.​

Controlled demolition hypothesis for the collapse of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

 

[tripod]

Ahhhh Madame Zora... words of wisdom... I could not have expressed that point any better! Thanx for poking your head in!!!

 

[D_N Flay Table]

Hey Nitro.. while you are thinking of reasons WHY we should go to war with Iran.. I can give you ONE BIG ONE why we shouldn't. China, Iran sign biggest oil & gas deal

 

[tripod]

Hey Nitro.. while you are thinking of reasons WHY we should go to war with Iran.. I can give you ONE BIG ONE why we shouldn't. China, Iran sign biggest oil & gas deal

And it would raise the price of oil to a staggering level and plunge the whole world into a nice fat economic depression!!! But who cares right? Since Iran is ISRAEL's actual enemy, and we do whatever Israel wants... why not? Might even bring us closer to the rapture!!! Sounds like FUN!!!!

 

[madame_zora]

Shit, I'm still worrying about what's going to happen to our economy if China and India ever decide to shake hands and make nice. I wonder how much both of them own of our war bands by now? I haven't checked on that one in a while.

 

[Nitrofiend]

Hey Nitro.. while you are thinking of reasons WHY we should go to war with Iran.. I can give you ONE BIG ONE why we shouldn't. China, Iran sign biggest oil & gas deal

I was being facetious. Obviously I don't think we should go to war with Iran under the current pretenses. I'm merely saying that the fact that Iran is actively seeking nuclear power makes it much more of a threat than Iraq ever was. Therefore, it is relatively more justifiable to attack Iran than it was ever to attack Iraq.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

Shit, I'm still worrying about what's going to happen to our economy if China and India ever decide to shake hands and make nice. I wonder how much both of them own of our war bands by now? I haven't checked on that one in a while.

I'd be more worried about what would happen if China decides to start marching its one million soldiers somewhere or India decides to use its nukes. I'd happily give up American economic acendancy if it meant guaranteeing that never happens.

Incidentally what's this got to do with kooky conspiracy theories? I guess I should go back and read the rest of the thread...