9/11 and new world order

[Klingsor]

I've also noticed terrorism now comes in many forums. Occupy Wall Streeters for one.

:wtf:

 

[Calboner]

:wtf:

You could have posted that icon as a comment on almost any sentence in Curiousme's post.

 

[Klingsor]

You could have posted that icon as a comment on almost any sentence in Curiousme's post.

One has to start somewhere. :wink:

 

[Calboner]

I haven't seen anything interesting on the boards for a while, so maybe it's time that I replied to BigBoy's reply to my question:

on what basis, if any, do you distinguish between your beliefs and paranoid fantasies?

By seeing it with my own eyes.

By seeing what with your own eyes? Your beliefs, or paranoid fantasies? Or something else?

You didn't see the events that occured on 9/11

Oh, I didn't, did I? How do you know that? You know nothing about where I was or what I saw on September 11, 2001.

so why do you whole heartedly believe the official story? Why, because the government told you so and it sounded logical and plausible and so it must have happened.

Bullshit. Plenty of information, along with live video and all the rest of it, was coming before the public through news media long before there was any "official story." It has been independently confirmed by journalists, historians, and other inquirers. Your fantasies of a US or global government conspiracy has a following among credulous paranoiacs, but no cogent evidence to support it.

I wasn't there when it happened, all I have to go on is video footage, scientific facts given by professionals and government secrecy and eyewitness testimony.

Right. Which, if you followed a sane line of reasoning, should lead you to sane conclusions.

With the theory about comets and asteroids hitting the earth, again I don't know because I can't see them travelling towards us, I have to trust the government and those in league with the government, NASA (Never Any Straight Answers), and there in lies the problem.

Well, now you've lost me again.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the World of Crazy:

BOISE, Idaho -- An Idaho man accused of firing an assault rifle at the White House believed he was Jesus and thought President Barack Obama was the antichrist. He had become increasingly agitated with the federal government, and at one point, he suggested Obama was planning to implant computer tracking chips into children, according to court documents and those who knew him. (Source)

 

[B_enzia35]

Damn, is BigBoy around? He always gave me a laugh.

 

[Calboner]

Damn, is BigBoy around? He always gave me a laugh.

He hasn't posted anything since the post to which I was replying, which dates to a week ago. I was hoping perhaps to chivy him out of his lair.

 

[D_Sir Walter Snott]

Charlie Veitch was paid off or was working for the government all along, posing as a truth movement follower/leader and then all of a sudden changed his views to the exact opposite spectrum.
See this clip at 9:35

Why Charlie Veitch Changed his Mind on 911 - 1/3 - YouTube


Charlie is talking to Max Igan about his new revelation that all that he knew beforehand was false, he mentions that flying a plane into the world trade centers is a piece of cake, even going as far as to rubbish claims made by Max Igan's father who was a world war II pilot, that it was impossible for any human to perform the manoeuvres made by the planes that day.
I watched this documentary which I am trying to find a link to where a veteran pilot showed an average man with basic flight simulator training, just how hard it was to perform those manoeuvres, even HE couldn't do it.
So are veteran pilots such as Field McConnell and others just simply don't know how to handle and operate the very machines that they have been flying for many years? Are they just negligent and incompetent, whereas the AL-Qaeda terrorist hijackers with only basic flight training were far superior? The answer is NO.

 

[Calboner]

Charlie Veitch was paid off or was working for the government all along, posing as a truth movement follower/leader and then all of a sudden changed his views to the exact opposite spectrum.
See this clip at 9:35

Why Charlie Veitch Changed his Mind on 911 - 1/3 - YouTube

You have absolutely no sense of probability, have you? Whenever any evidence appears that counts against your theory--not that one believer's change of mind is particularly strong evidence, but obviously it presents a problem for you--you just add another complication to the conspiracy, heedless of the fact that you are subtracting from the probability of your hypothesis (see "Conjunction Fallacy"). Clearly he must have been bought off! It is unthinkable (to you) that there could be any truth to what he says in that video (at 1:49): "What it is is that I'm an open-minded, logical person, and we went round Ground Zero, the Pentagon, we met experts and family members, and suddenly, Max, after about day 3, it just popped in my head and I went 'hold on a second, what if we in the conspiracy theory world are paranoid and we're kind of in a cult, and what if not everything is a conspiracy? What if 19 hijackers, part of an Islamist revolutionary hatred of the west, did manage to pull it off? And it's the simplest explanation." Actually, given this guy's record, I share your suspicion of his declaration of being open-minded and logical; but that is hardly sufficient reason for adding him into the conspiracy.

I had never heard of Charlie Veitch before I saw your post. I did some searching and I found this article--

9/11 Truth: How conspiracy theorists react to apostates like Charlie Veitch. - Slate Magazine

--according to which he was "a relatively minor figure in the 9/11 conspiracy world" until the BBC took him and some other British conspiracy theorists to New York, Washington, and Shanksville, Penn., where "Veitch was given the chance to grill controlled-demolition experts, professors of metallurgy, some of the people who helped build the World Trade Center in the 1970s, retired CIA analysts, eyewitnesses, and aviation experts," in consequence of which he abandoned the conspiracy theory. And this has the conspiracy believers in an uproar.

Veitch announced his "conversion" on June 29, 2011, on his blog and YouTube channel, saying that he hadn't been wrong to believe that the government was capable of orchestrating 9/11, but he had been wrong about the facts:

I think because the government has lied about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians have been killed, we do suspect foul play when other terrible events [happen] … and if governments can lie and kill half a million people, why wouldn't they lie about killing 3,000? It doesn't take an incredible leap of fantasy or faith or gullibility. We're not gullible, we're just truth seekers. And the 9/11 Truth movement is trying to find out the truth about what happened. … [But you should] not hold onto religious dogma. If you're presented with new evidence, take it on, even if it contradicts what you or your group might be believing or wanting to believe. You have to give the truth the greatest respect, and I do.
​

This relatively mild renunciation by a relatively minor advocate of 9/11 conspiracy theories was treated as major news in the conspiracy community. Veitch received threatening phone calls and emails. Donations to his site dried up. He was accused of having taken a payoff from the BBC, of having been subject to mind control by "neuro-linguistic programming experts," of being under hypnosis by British illusionist Derren Brown, and of being a Sunstein-sent cognitive infiltrator. "The best theory I heard has been that I have been deep undercover MI6 or CIA agent," Veitch said. "[They say] I was basically a one-man sleeper cell waiting to discredit the 9/11 Truth movement and destroy what they call 'the resistance' from within." Last month, Veitch's site was hacked and a message was sent to his 15,000 subscribers calling him a child abuser. "When your mom phones you saying, 'Why have you sent me something admitting to being a child molester?' it's not very good," Veitch said.

 

[bobbyboyle]

--according to which he was "a relatively minor figure in the 9/11 conspiracy world" until the BBC took him and some other British conspiracy theorists to New York, Washington, and Shanksville, Penn., where "Veitch was given the chance to grill controlled-demolition experts, professors of metallurgy, some of the people who helped build the World Trade Center in the 1970s, retired CIA analysts, eyewitnesses, and aviation experts," in consequence of which he abandoned the conspiracy theory. And this has the conspiracy believers in an uproar.

I actually watched that programme and recall how he began by regurgitating the standard arguments from incredulity/ignorance but when he got answers he would clearly be taking it on board. Good man.

By contrast there was one woman in particular who would immediately shut down and not listen to the people answering questions, even on occasion arguing aggresively with them on their area of technical expertise. The most telling thing was that, when some guy from the FAA or some similar body voiced his doubts about the legality of the post-9/11 wars and that the government was to an extent complacent, she became vocal in her agreement with him and was overly keen to shake his hand and thank him. Afterwards she was saying that even he believed it was an inside job. The presenter openly despaired but she just shouted at him like a tantruming child.

It was really scary to see how she was so capable of deluding herself and just heard what she wanted to hear. A real insight into the psychology of hardcore conspiracy believers.