9/11 The official story.

Horaven

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that's probably the one. the one that the JREFers have tried their damdest to debunk.

Yes, the one from a guy who lied about his military background.

And a countdown to a CD that still has no record of explosions. And was a top down demo, which you said for some reason had nothing to do with what you were talking about.

And no I'm not new to this, rusty but not new. I'm just surprised to see that people are still clinging to this. It's been 9 years and still not one piece of real evidence from the movement that isn't speculation.
 

D_N Flay Table

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This has nothing to do with what I believe a government can or can't do. This has to do with some form of proof, not speculation. The 9/11 movement in 9 years still has not provided one piece of credible evidence. This has nothing to do with wanting to believe the official story.

So again, firefighters talking about the building leaning, damage up 20 stories doesn't count and/or they were lying or seeing things?

The firemen also said they heard "bombs" going off in the building. And that the fire could be knocked down with two hoses.
 

D_stryhtfg

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Do you believe the official story of 9/11?
What do you think?

Yes...I do.

And anyone that believes somehow the Bush Administration had anything to do with it needs to move to California...and then I am going to get a big saw and cut California away from the main land and set them adrift.

Seriously...how much tin foil do you people go through?
 

Horaven

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The firemen also said they heard "bombs" going off in the building. And that the fire could be knocked down with two hoses.

quote mining 101 regarding the explosions. it could have been anything, doesn't mean CD. And just like there has never been a top down CD there also has never been a CD with the building coming down minutes/hours later than the explosions.

Yes there was a fire below the impact point that was was small enough to knock down with a couple of lines, but that doesn't suggest that's what the entire make up of fires was.
 

maxcok

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Actually Max...if that photo could be isolated emotionally from it's context, it's great satire. Bush sitting in that setting, holding a kids book, sitting in front of a little sign that says..."reading makes a country great" :redface:
Oh, the satire and the supreme irony in that photo is not lost on me, at all. There's another I would love to link up, but unfortunately there is a child in the picture, so it would violate the (damn) ToS. In that one Georgie Porgie is holding the book upside down. :laughing:

IMO "9/11 Truthers" and "Birthers" are just different sides of the same conspiracy theory coin.
Other than expressing some healthy skepticism as opposed to unquestioningly accepting the official goverment version of 'truth', I fail to see any parallels between these two camps. 9/11 is an infinitely more complex series of events fraught with a host of unanswered questions and many suspicious explanations vs. the simplicity of Obama's birth record, for which we have concrete evidence and clear documentation. Would you care to explain the connection between "birthers" and those who remain skeptical of the 9/11 Commission Report?

Yes...I do.

And anyone that believes somehow the Bush Administration had anything to do with it needs to move to California...and then I am going to get a big saw and cut California away from the main land and set them adrift.

Seriously...how much tin foil do you people go through?
As a former resident of the Golden State, I can tell you that between the beaches and deserts there's plenty of sand you can bury your head in too. Perhaps you should consider relocating. Not only is it short-sighted and rude to cast such childish aspersions on the skeptics, it's simple-minded and dangerous to believe without question what government officials dish out as the 'truth'.

Do you believe in the magic JFK single bullet? How about Reagan's version of Iran/Contra or Nixon's version of Watergate? Did you or do you still believe in the Bush administration's "evidence" of Saddam's WMD's - along with his "involvement" in 9/11 - the twin "truths" given as justification to invade Iraq? Oh no, our government always tells us the the truth, doesn't it? The CIA has never worked covertly to overthrow foreign governments, and those fluffy clouds overhead are filled with happy rainbow-colored unicorns too. :rolleyes:

Food for thought: The plans for the invasion of Iraq were developed long before Bush even took office at the now defunct neo-conservative think tank, Project for the New American Century. If you're not familiar, you really should study up on it, or keep your trap shut. The list of members and supporters reads like a who's who of the Bush administration, and previous Republican administrations all the way back through Bush I and Reagan to Ford, even to Nixon in the case of Rumsfeld. In addition, you will see the names of many of the most prominent and influential neo-conservative media figures. Seriously, bone up on it, here and here: Project for the New American Century - SourceWatch.

Those of us who've studied these events and keep an open skeptical mind know this: The invasion of Iraq was a war of military aggression long in the works just looking for an excuse to get going. 9/11 and its aftermath, twisted as the logic and the manufactured "evidence" were, provided the excuse, the cover, and the 'justification'. The few of us who dared question the drumbeat were painted unpatriotic, even traitorous, as our 'leaders' marched us all lockstep over the brink into the abyss.

And you think those of us who question the "official story" of the 9/11 events are misguided, even nuts??
Now that's ironic.

More food for thought, links within: September 11, 2001: Evacuation of Saudi Nationals - SourceWatch
 
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tripod

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What does inside job mean? It was the opening salvo of our country's war against reason and dignity.

It's the new cold war. Terrorism is a relative term as is "inside job".

It was the blackest of black ops... been in planning for years if not a decade or two.

Yet what does "inside job" mean?

Who really is Al Qaeda?

What exactly is our objective in the middle East?

Fascism doesn't happen overnight, it takes shock and awe and is a lot of work.

New End hit it right on the head, it's Pearl Harbor dressed up in 90's club clothing.

What does "looking the other way" in the larger scheme of National Security even mean?

I've done a lot of research into the matter and have a big ol' computer folder with gigs and gigs of files in it labeled 9-11.

It was a quadruple wrapped, blackest of the black ops. Since it is wrapped at least four times, no normal human without security clearance can actually get to the bottom of what "actually" happened behind the scenes and in the planning and ultimate execution of the coup de etat.

There is also disinformation disseminated as an elaborate psyops web of intrigue on the internet out there. It's almost impossible at times to sift through the disinfo and the plausible explanations.

All in all, 9/11 research is a wholly unhealthy endeavor since one can easily cross into wingnut territory before you ever realize it.

Let me just also say that "Loose Change" could easily be disinformation assets used by the government.

The death of soooo many people also can affect the way that many people can process the events of 9/11. It is literally too painful for many people to rehash and relive. So many people that helped with the clean-up are suffering from debilitating health problems to this very day.

What is hilarious is that we are supposedly in Afghanistan so that we can prevent Al Qaeda from having a safe haven that they can plan another 9/11 from. The hijackers learned to fly here. The hijackers learned martial arts here. Al Qaeda doesn't need a remote and isolated country to plan another attack, they'll just do it here.

And just what is Al Qaeda anyway?
 

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What does inside job mean? It was the opening salvo of our country's war against reason and dignity.

It's the new cold war. Terrorism is a relative term as is "inside job".

It was the blackest of black ops... been in planning for years if not a decade or two.

Yet what does "inside job" mean?

Who really is Al Qaeda?

What exactly is our objective in the middle East?

Fascism doesn't happen overnight, it takes shock and awe and is a lot of work.

New End hit it right on the head, it's Pearl Harbor dressed up in 90's club clothing.

What does "looking the other way" in the larger scheme of National Security even mean?

I've done a lot of research into the matter and have a big ol' computer folder with gigs and gigs of files in it labeled 9-11.

It was a quadruple wrapped, blackest of the black ops. Since it is wrapped at least four times, no normal human without security clearance can actually get to the bottom of what "actually" happened behind the scenes and in the planning and ultimate execution of the coup de etat.

There is also disinformation disseminated as an elaborate psyops web of intrigue on the internet out there. It's almost impossible at times to sift through the disinfo and the plausible explanations.

All in all, 9/11 research is a wholly unhealthy endeavor since one can easily cross into wingnut territory before you ever realize it.

Let me just also say that "Loose Change" could easily be disinformation assets used by the government.

The death of soooo many people also can affect the way that many people can process the events of 9/11. It is literally too painful for many people to rehash and relive. So many people that helped with the clean-up are suffering from debilitating health problems to this very day.

What is hilarious is that we are supposedly in Afghanistan so that we can prevent Al Qaeda from having a safe haven that they can plan another 9/11 from. The hijackers learned to fly here. The hijackers learned martial arts here. Al Qaeda doesn't need a remote and isolated country to plan another attack, they'll just do it here.

And just what is Al Qaeda anyway?


Awesome Tripod.. just Awesome. :)
 

B_VinylBoy

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What does that have to do with anything?

I'm just finding it very interesting how many people who scream the word "conspiracy" on the situation, as if they know something that nobody else does, only experienced 9/11 from the comforts of their own home on a television screen or via internet... unlike most New Yorkers who had to endure the pain & solitude of walking the streets the days, weeks and months afterwards to try and put their lives back together. For the most part don't think it was an "inside job".

While I think it may be true that the previous administration knew more about 9/11 then they've let on, I highly doubt that the attacks were an inside job. Of course, that's just an intriguing observation I've been noticing for almost a decade now.
 
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maxcok

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I'm curious to know how many people who believe that 9/11 was an inside job actually live in New York or were in the city when it happened?
I'm not sure what you mean by "inside job", but whether one was in New York at the time, how is that relevant to one's belief regarding the official version of events?

Setting aside the dueling forensic theories, which as Tripod suggests can quickly lead one into a cul de sac of wingnuttery, the questions to consider are these: Who or what powers caused this to happen, or allowed this to happen, and why? Who or what powers had to gain from these catastrophic events and the subsequent public reaction? What did they hope to achieve, and what have they gained?
 

Stretch

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The plans for the invasion of Iraq were developed long before Bush even took office at the now defunct neo-conservative think tank, Project for the New American Century.

I've posted the link to Project for the New American Century here several times over the years. People don't seem to want to discuss it. It throws too many facts into their stories.

I'm just finding it very interesting how many people who scream the word "conspiracy" on the situation, as if they know something that nobody else does, only experienced 9/11 from the comforts of their own home on a television screen or via internet... unlike most New Yorkers who had to endure the pain & solitude of walking the streets the days, weeks and months afterwards to try and put their lives back together. For the most part don't think it was an "inside job".

While I think it may be true that the previous administration knew more about 9/11 then they've let on, I highly doubt that the attacks were an inside job. Of course, that's just an intriguing observation I've been noticing for almost a decade now.

It's not at all about conspiracy theories Vinyl. There are just too many questions left open from that day. Without throwing out any possible scenarios, it's just about finding answers to major, major questions that, to this day, have either gone unanswered. I still ask...can anybody explain what happened at the Pentagon that day? I realize that people don't want to deal with this. Most people accept being raised to blindly follow and patriotically pledge themselves to the flag and the ideals it represents. Those ideals become intertwined with their very character. That, among other reasons, is how they get away with telling you one thing when you've actually seen something else with your own eyes. If the events of 9/11 were in any way proven to be planned and carried out by internal factions from within the States, and that high ranking "officials" were complacent in that planning, it would shake the very foundation and core of peoples belief systems. No wonder people become aggressive and patronizingly insulting whenever the idea of the official story not being true is broached. The Emperors new clothes indeed.

It's already been mentioned so there's no need to expound on it but...I'm from Manhattan and I really don't see how being from there gives me any more right or exclusivity to an opinion then somebody not from there.

Who or what powers had to gain from these catastrophic events and the subsequent public reaction? What did they hope to achieve, and what have they gained?

Always the #1 question to ask. That and follow the money trail, as in, always take a look at who profits.
 

maxcok

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I've posted the link to Project for the New American Century here several times over the years. People don't seem to want to discuss it. It throws too many facts into their stories. . . . No wonder people become aggressive and patronizingly insulting whenever the idea of the official story not being true is broached. . . .
I am surprised by the number of otherwise intelligent, progressive, free-thinking individuals who often fail to see the big picture, who are all too willing to reject anything outside their usual comfort zone, and who dismiss anyone who steps outside the party line and speaks outside of the conventional media narrative as a crackpot.

It's already been mentioned so there's no need to expound on it but...I'm from Manhattan and I really don't see how being from there gives me any more right or exclusivity to an opinion then somebody not from there.
I don't see how New Yorkers hold a monopoly on opinions regarding 9/11 either.
p.s. I had friends who died in the WTC.

Always the #1 question to ask. That and follow the money trail, as in, always take a look at who profits.
Which in this case is essentially one and the same.
 
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Stretch

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I am surprised by the number of otherwise intelligent, progressive, free-thinking individuals who often fail to see the big picture, who are all too willing to reject anything outside their usual comfort zone, and who dismiss anyone who steps outside the party line and speaks outside of the conventional media narrative as a crackpot.

By using the label crackpot, it frames everything said or espoused as the ramblings of a loon or, if you prefer, the more commonly used "tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist". Always thrown out as a condescending insult whenever a person wants to end or avoid any debate or discussion that might poke any kind of hole in their carefully crafted dome of "reality".

Most people accept being raised to blindly follow and patriotically pledge themselves to the flag and the ideals it represents. Those ideals become intertwined with their very character. That, among other reasons, is how they get away with telling you one thing when you've actually seen something else with your own eyes. If the events of 9/11 were in any way proven to be planned and carried out by internal factions from within the States, and that high ranking "officials" were complacent in that planning, it would shake the very foundation and core of peoples belief systems. No wonder people become aggressive and patronizingly insulting whenever the idea of the official story not being true is broached. The Emperors new clothes indeed.
 

maxcok

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. . . If the events of 9/11 were in any way proven to be planned and carried out by internal factions from within the States, and that high ranking "officials" were complacent in that planning, it would shake the very foundation and core of peoples belief systems. . . .
Did you mean to say 'complacent' or 'complicit'? Or both?