9 Signs of America in Decline

[B_spiker067]

It does. I asked you because you implied that not all schools are $25k+ or more a year and I was asking what schools weren't because I don't see how they couldn't be given staffing and facility costs.

I thought you might know given that you spoke about it.

Math.

20 students a class * $5,000 a semester tuition * 12 grades = $1.2 Million a semester or 2.4 million a year.

What 12 teachers and 1 principal and staff....240 students...

Can't remember off hand the average cost to educate a kid in public school. I think in DC it is $14,000.

 

[B_New End]

OK, I really screwed up that post. I pressed the button before I was done.

I agree that schools do teach those things, some more than others. What bothers me is that kids seem to come out of school, and I include lots of colleges in that, entirely unprepared for the world at large. They can barely write, don't know how to research, are unfamiliar with formal argument, debate, and have no public speaking skills. They don't even seem to remember anything they've studied previously. It's rather shocking.

I ahd a friend who majored in "race, class, and gender studies", when she met my roommate, I said, "he has proletariat tattooed across his back!"... and she said "he he... what does that mean?"

My jaw dropped, and I said... "what... marxist theory, proletariat?... bourgeoisie?" She just gave me big, vapid eyes.

 

[B_spiker067]

The grand total of DC public school funding for 2007-08 is thus $1.216 billion. Divide that by the OSSE’s official enrollment figure of 49,422 students, and you arrive at an estimated total per pupil spending figure of $24,606.

The Real Cost of Public Schools | Cato @ Liberty

 

[jason_els]

Math.

20 students a class * $5,000 a semester tuition * 12 grades = $1.2 Million a semester or 2.4 million a year.

What 12 teachers and 1 principal and staff....240 students...

Can't remember off hand the average cost to educate a kid in public school. I think in DC it is $14,000.

OK, so at $45k a year per teacher in salary plus another $8k per person in health benefits, and principal's and staff costs (assuming 3 maintenance, 4 kitchen staff, 4 accounting, nurse, dean of students, librarian and one assistant, counselor, 2 secretaries, dean of admissions and assistant, alumni director and assistant, director of development and assistant, plus separate teaching staff for physical education (2), music, and art), that would go way over even the 2.4m a year.

Then there are utilities, other insurances, maintenance, capital improvements, board fees and reimbursements, and equipment.... I have no idea how much those are to make them at least equivalent (or better) to a public school's facilities.

I don't see how they can do it.

 

[B_spiker067]

OK, so at $45k a year per teacher in salary plus another $8k per person in health benefits, and principal's and staff costs (assuming 3 maintenance, 4 kitchen staff, 4 accounting, nurse, dean of students, librarian and one assistant, counselor, 2 secretaries, dean of admissions and assistant, alumni director and assistant, director of development and assistant, plus separate teaching staff for physical education (2), music, and art), that would go way over even the 2.4m a year.

Then there are utilities, other insurances, maintenance, capital improvements, board fees and reimbursements, and equipment.... I have no idea how much those are to make them at least equivalent (or better) to a public school's facilities.

I don't see how they can do it.

Some seem to manage

Good Shepherd Lutheran School - Tuition & Fees / Financial Aid- North Mankato, MN 56003

"According to a 2005 report from the OECD, the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency).[62] Despite this high level of funding, according to the OECD, U.S. public schools lag behind the schools of other developed countries in the areas of reading, math, and science.[63]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States

 

[jason_els]

I ahd a friend who majored in "race, class, and gender studies", when she met my roommate, I said, "he has proletariat tattooed across his back!"... and she said "he he... what does that mean?"

My jaw dropped, and I said... "what... marxist theory, proletariat?... bourgeoisie?" She just gave me big, vapid eyes.

I have a cousin who majored in 20th century history, has a master's in gender studies, and is now a PhD candidate in 20th century gender studies and she didn't know what McCarthyism is. I was very surprised as she went to a top tier school, has a very high IQ, and supposedly studied a subject where McCarthyism would be a topic. She was eager to know about McCarthyism and I didn't belittle her for not knowing about it. How could I? If the schools (expensive ones at that) aren't teaching her what she needs to know, then she's going to be ignorant through no fault of her own.

 

[B_spiker067]

I have a cousin who majored in 20th century history, has a master's in gender studies, and is now a PhD candidate in 20th century gender studies and she didn't know what McCarthyism is. I was very surprised as she went to a top tier school, has a very high IQ, and supposedly studied a subject where McCarthyism would be a topic. She was eager to know about McCarthyism and I didn't belittle her for not knowing about it. How could I? If the schools (expensive ones at that) aren't teaching her what she needs to know, then she's going to be ignorant through no fault of her own.

I new a Harvard Law graduate who didn't know how to pronounce segue. Didn't treat her like a "Jay Walking" victim though.

 

[jason_els]

Some seem to manage

Good Shepherd Lutheran School - Tuition & Fees / Financial Aid- North Mankato, MN 56003

"According to a 2005 report from the OECD, the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency).[62] Despite this high level of funding, according to the OECD, U.S. public schools lag behind the schools of other developed countries in the areas of reading, math, and science.[63]"

Education in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good Shepherd Lutheran's cost per pupil is $6,000 per year. That's quite good. The problem is they have a single teacher for every three grades plus the principal is also the kindergarten and first grade teacher. They don't have a gym. It seems to me they have a severe staffing problem unless their enrollment makes single-room teaching possible. I don't see anything that says how many children attend.

It is also a parochial school with academics taught with, "A Christ-centered world view." Even were I a devout Lutheran, I wouldn't send my kid to a school that teaches the world was made in 7 days in science class. That's not a liberal arts education based upon rigorous academically tested theories and so, therefore, not really an education that's serviceable in the outside world.

 

[jason_els]

I new a Harvard Law graduate who didn't know how to pronounce segue. Didn't treat her like a "Jay Walking" victim though.

Maybe this is why I know so many people who have expatriated to Europe. It just gets worse.... UGH!!!!

 

[B_spiker067]

Maybe this is why I know so many people who have expatriated to Europe. It just gets worse.... UGH!!!!

I've met some Europeans they weren't all bright. I've met Indians from India back in the day and they leave you with the impression they are all geniuses. They told me that was an illusion.

 

[jason_els]

I've met some Europeans they weren't all bright. I've met Indians from India back in the day and they leave you with the impression they are all geniuses. They told me that was an illusion.

No, but their education systems seem to better. I've a friend who's an elementary school principal in Ireland and she's constantly amazed at what we don't teach kids in elementary school.

 

[B_spiker067]

No, but their education systems seem to better. I've a friend who's an elementary school principal in Ireland and she's constantly amazed at what we don't teach kids in elementary school.

Last I heard we compare favorably with the rest of the developed world when it comes to primary education. We fail miserably 7-12th with those kids NOT interested in a college track.

 

[jason_els]

Last I heard we compare favorably with the rest of the developed world when it comes to primary education. We fail miserably 7-12th with those kids NOT interested in a college track.

And how!! Our elementary education isn't awful but kids walk out of Irish elementary schools with three languages and a basic understanding of algebra, history, science, and (most importantly) an understanding of how to do school work. They work to teach kids how to study, how to know what information is important, how to manage school work with other things, how to write reports, and how to take notes. They also spend a great deal of time making sure the kids are healthy, cared-for, and have issues addressed before they get out of hand or go undiagnosed. As Maire puts it, "We prepare them to be students for the rest of their lives," and I think the record of the Irish system speaks to that. It certainly contributes to the ability of a student to stay in school down the road. They do have more freedoms than our teachers do. They teach etiquette, ESL, how to do living tasks, but also have the authority to discipline kids by keeping them after school or suspending or even expelling them. The Irish system is a hybrid of parochial and secular education. It's run by the Catholic church and the government pays for and co-administers it. The church does have to adhere to some policies which are contrary to church teaching (like teaching about contraception in sex ed, not buggering boys, etc.) but it works.

 

[B_spiker067]

The Irish system is a hybrid of parochial and secular education. It's run by the Catholic church and the government pays for and co-administers it. The church does have to adhere to some policies which are contrary to church teaching (like teaching about contraception in sex ed, not buggering boys, etc.) but it works.

I find this compelling. I must look into it.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

VinylBoy - I don't recognize the picture you paint of the US. I live in Europe and because of Whie House imposed agreements we have to take 60 plus % of our tv coverage from the US producers,
and I never see any of the problems you have highlighted in the US programmes screened here. Are you sure you have the facts right? A 17% poverty rate I doubt, I mean the American tax payer is prosecuting the most expesive war ever in the middle east to protect your fuel supplies and every congressman's and senator's sons and daughters are chafing at the collar to finish Harvard and go fight the good fight.

 

[vince]

As a parent who's child graduated from a public high school five years ago, I have a couple of comments.

The quality of the school and results produced are to a great extent determined by the parents of the children. Parents have to be involved and know what's going on at and in the school on a daily bases. They have to be helping with the extra curricular activities, volunteering in the classrooms, they have to keep tabs on what's going on with their kid's friends, and on and on.

An expensive and well equipped school doesn't guarantee results. We lived in the most affluent community in Canada. Their are two public High Schools and one private one. Academically, the public schools kicked Collingwood's butt every year in spite of receiving the same, standard amount of funding as all other public schools in the province. The difference was parental involvement. In the school and in the kids non-school lives. Our kids told us that if you wanted to score good drugs, you had to go up to Collingwood to get them. LOL

I checked out the fees for the top private schools in Vancouver and they are 16 to 17.000 dollars (total) for day students. Are private schools in the eastern US that much more? 25.000 seems a lot.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

VinylBoy - I don't recognize the picture you paint of the US. I live in Europe and because of Whie House imposed agreements we have to take 60 plus % of our tv coverage from the US producers, and I never see any of the problems you have highlighted in the US programmes screened here.

That's probably why you're not seeing some of the problems we're really having with our Nation. If your only exposure to our country is through television, a media format which has its own ways to exaggerate and glamorize any particular message, then one would have a difficult time being able to read between the lines.

I'm sure there's probably some underlying issues with the UK as well. However, I wouldn't be able to know the full extent to the country's politics and social issues if my only real exposure to your country is CNN International, BBC America, a Radio One webcast (yes, I love Essential Mix), and the occasional "Are You Being Served" marathon on PBS. Although I do love Mr. Humphries (RIP).

Are you sure you have the facts right? A 17% poverty rate I doubt,

Just to reiterate, I didn't post the article as if it was some kind of factual statistics to go by. I just thought it was an interesting read about some of the things that are going wrong with our country. Even if the Poverty rate isn't as high (or higher) than the one presented in this article, I'm sure there's some room for error with the statistics listed. For instance, here's Census data regarding the Poverty Rate in America from 2007/2008 - http://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/acsbr08-1.pdf

According to these figures, roughly 39.1 million people are considered poor in America. But I'm not sure if this also counts those who didn't even answer the Census. Regardless, for a country that considers itself a "superpower", we should be trying to do something about this.

I mean the American tax payer is prosecuting the most expesive war ever in the middle east to protect your fuel supplies

And trust me, the majority of us do not want these wars to continue much longer if at all. You'll never see that in the news or any news poll.

and every congressman's and senator's sons and daughters are chafing at the collar to finish Harvard and go fight the good fight.

The reality is, very few people who go to Harvard will be found on the front lines at this or any war. If they have the funds to afford that college,they most likely have other plans. A good number of the people who will be doing the labor (and unfortunately getting killed in the process) will be poor, working class people who will see the Military as an opportunity not only to "serve their country", but as an escape out of the cycle of poverty they themselves or their family has fallen victim to for so long.

 

[eurotop40]

One sign is maybe the dollar (40 yrs ago 1 USD = 4 CHF, todaz 1 USD = 1 CHF).
Which is ok with me (I like to go shopping), but not a good sign.

(CHF = ISO denomination of the Swiss currency)

...although by this reasoning the UK should be a total desaster (40 years ago 1 GBP = 20 CHF, today 1 GBP = 1.68 CHF).

 

[SilverTrain]

I new a Harvard Law graduate who didn't know how to pronounce segue. Didn't treat her like a "Jay Walking" victim though.

Knew


Couldn't resist, as it is rather "on topic."

 

[B_spiker067]

Knew


Couldn't resist, as it is rather "on topic."

Nice to know I'm being read so closely.