A bill so reckless that it has to be rammed through on a partisan vote on xmas eve
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B_VinylBoy
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Most people can't think that far ahead.
Besides, it wouldn't make for a reasonable excuse to fuel a so-called civil revolt that will NEVER materialize anyhow. I guess they're just waiting for the snow to clear, or for Santa to bring them an extra gun for Christmas. Maybe it's their New Year's resolution?
Most people can't think that far ahead.
Besides, it wouldn't make for a reasonable excuse to fuel a so-called civil revolt that will NEVER materialize anyhow. I guess they're just waiting for the snow to clear, or for Santa to bring them an extra gun for Christmas. Maybe it's their New Year's resolution?
well while ur sittin back in ur lazyboy, china is in the process of kicking our ass. the US will no longer be the #1 player, and it will be because of our dysfunctional government that can't get ANYTHING done.
we can't wait six more sessions of congress, or 3 more presidential administrations, or 4 generations to get healthcare figured out, IT'S KILLING OUR ECONOMY! and since they're gonna get everything they wanted in this bill, the insurance companies WILL strangle this country to death.
seterwind
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You know it's kind of scary, most high level games like this have to take place in closed doors and only the paranoid seem to come up with horrible scandals out of what seems like normal process.
This whole health care reform manipulation and buying senators and such has been SO blatent, the manipulation so in our faces. The obviousness of lies and the blocking of REAL debate. It's quite sickening and frightening. There was a day when this kind of behavior sank a company and could get people linched by the angry populace.
But now insurance companies steal our money in front of our faces, hand it to corrupt senators to procure more money, and the people are powerless to stop it. It's frightening and sickening.
This whole health care reform manipulation and buying senators and such has been SO blatent, the manipulation so in our faces. The obviousness of lies and the blocking of REAL debate. It's quite sickening and frightening. There was a day when this kind of behavior sank a company and could get people linched by the angry populace.
But now insurance companies steal our money in front of our faces, hand it to corrupt senators to procure more money, and the people are powerless to stop it. It's frightening and sickening.
B_VinylBoy
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Let's not mistake my seemingly lack of obsession to be the number one country as laziness. My "pride" in my country is not so blinding that I don't recognize the need to work or to consider the advice of others.
Besides, if corporations in our own country weren't so obsessed with saving money, they wouldn't have outsourced most of our jobs and labor to other countries to begin with. We could have focused on creating more factories on our shores, hiring our people to do the work here and keeping the unemployment down in the process. We're supposed to be "number one", right? If so, then why did our corporations have to hire people in China to make our sneakers, our computer chips, televisions, or just about everything we use? Alas, none of that matters when you only measure success through dollar signs and profits.
America fucked up on that regard, and I'm not afraid to admit that especially since I once had a great paying job that was lost due to outsourcing back in 2003. So much for the "we're number one" rhetoric. I burned my rally cap & foam finger glove a long time ago because I could use my own hands in this regard to express myself. Unfortunately, it's not the pointers or the thumbs that I'm using.
But I digress, of course.
Which is exactly what will happen if we "kill the bill" now. When you have an opposition whose only interested in obstructing, what makes you think that if the Senate starts over that it'll be any different, especially in 2010 if the Democrats lose the majority? The current Congress has rabidly used the filibuster for 70% of legislation that has been presented, including on a bill to help fund the Military last week. That's more than triple than any other time in our nation's history. Read the writing that is already on the wall, thadjock... if the Senate doesn't pass a bill while they can, they'll NEVER do it. That will result in the status quo, and more whining and bitching from people who want to see reform.
Completely disingenuous. Many other things are hurting our economy besides Health Care Reform. This is one of many parts to the problem.
So either you don't know what reconciliation is, or you've just abandoned all possible hope for the process to complete itself and generate a final result. Be honest and say you don't know what to expect. Even I'm not 100% certain as to what the future brings, but I'm not going to panic because of it.
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REALLY? do you really think there's any chance in hell that the "final result" will include a public option, or any regulatory provision to crack down on runaway costs? this bill will not contain either. gauranteed!
you should consult your physician for a dose of reality.
while u can still get any healthcare at all.
Exactly. Democrats and progressives have a lot to celebrate with this bill. If the election had gone the other way we would have nothing. Nothing except the ghost of HillaryCare. Rejecting an imperfect deal in the hope of eventually getting something better is a recipe for getting nothing at all. If we had no bill it would have been yet another defeat for health care and we would not have another chance for another 10 years at least. Meanwhile more and more Americans go uninsured.
Has anyone been in an emergency room lately? It's not a pretty picture. It's pretty obvious how people with no health care get 'health care' and it's not really health care.
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the capacity for rationalization on the left amazes me.
instead of being enraged , we're supposed to celebrate this steaming pile of dog shit bill? and not complain?
RE: getting the uninsured insured, all this bill does is create a mandate that forces people to buy insurance they can't afford, and the subsidy proposed doesnt' cover it either. but hey , break out the champagne! at least we got something passed!! woo fukin hoo!!
this could only be considered a victory by people who get all their news from the today show.
At its core, the bill would do two things. First, it would prohibit discrimination by insurance companies on the basis of medical condition or history: Americans could no longer be denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition, or have their insurance canceled when they get sick.
Second, the bill would provide substantial financial aid to those who don’t get insurance through their employers, as well as tax breaks for small employers that do provide insurance.
And if this bill displeases thadjock so be it.Second, the bill would provide substantial financial aid to those who don’t get insurance through their employers, as well as tax breaks for small employers that do provide insurance.
'I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" - Bill Cosby
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the first thing insurance cos. are going to do once they're forced to take on all the "bad risks" and can't descriminate by charging them more, is pass on that expense to everybody else in the form of higher premiums.
hey, you mean i get to pay more because my insurance co. can no longer pick and choose who they insure? great!! sign me up!!
and "...substantial financial aid..." will come from tax dollars, my tax dollars.
so i actually get to pay for other people's insurance in two different ways now instead of just my own, great!! sign me up!!!
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You already do. You pay for the fire department. You pay for the police department. You pay for schools. All things you probably have NEVER used well maybe school. It's too bad you have to pay to put fires out you didn't start or for police calls that you didn't make. Or for schools you have no kids in. What a goddamn shame.
B_VinylBoy
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You've constantly ignored the complete situation and have done nothing but predict doom without the process finishing its course. You're running around these threads like Chicken Little based on your own fears of what may be looming in the distance. Seriously, you should put down the crystal ball. Just because "crystal" is in the name doesn't mean it's made out of meth.
That's how it usually works right? Pick up the 'death panel' disinformation and run with it to the Town Hall. Add a little hysteria, add a Faux News reporter and bingo you have a huge story.
You've constantly ignored the complete situation and have done nothing but predict doom without the process finishing its course. You're running around these threads like Chicken Little based on your own fears of what may be looming in the distance. Seriously, you should put down the crystal ball. Just because "crystal" is in the name doesn't mean it's made out of meth.
the reason i'm so damn mad is that opportunities were squandered by people pandering to the right and the media.
yeah exactly the death panel lie got traction because the dems were spinning their wheels, and never responded effectively. have we learned nothing from the rove years?
B_VinylBoy
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That's essentially what you have to do if you want a bipartisan deal. You have to cater to the demands of the opposition to some degree and see if they're willing to give their support. Who would have thought the conservative opposition would want the bill to be this watered down, only for them to all vote against it anyhow?
Believe me when I say that I'm not satisfied with what is happening in the Senate right now. I'm just trying to find any glimmers of hope here so I don't go insane. It prevents me from frothing at the mouth.
Perhaps you need some alternative sources? :wink:
All things in time. The vitriol from the Republicans and all others is so great because they know once you give the people something and they like it, they can never take it away. And this bill will be modified and go through many iterations but it will NOT be abandoned. They tried so hard, so hard to dump Social Security during Bush's second term but had to retreat. Bless them. :wink:
apparently rom emanuel did, cuz he basically forfeited the game b4 it started,
but ur right I have completely misread the whole situation, see i didnt' realize that THIS is the change we're supposed to believe in, not the one they advertised during the campaign.
i guess the part about backroom deals with insurance & drug companies got left on the editing room floor when the "believe in universal healthcare for all" commercial was aired.
now that i understand my own stupidity i'll shut up.
B_VinylBoy
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Sarcasm noted. Validity of statement exaggerated.
Again, why did you vote for Obama? Please don't tell me you believed the political slogans? Even my reasons for voting for Obama had nothing to do with that.
You didn't need to see the behind the scenes antics to know that was going on. Come on, you're not that naive. We ARE talking about politicians, aren't we?
Would never say you're stupid, although I do find some of your statements alarming.
It's myth like the death panel myth that this bill is a gift to industry. They are spending millions to fight it. A lot of things that are standard practice would now be banned or heavily regulated. Yes they will get more customers but more profits? Well that is going to prove difficult.
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