" A government big enough to give you everything you want...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wyldgusechaz, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    is a government strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

    The bailout is now up to $3 trillion dollars. You could have given $9000 to every man woman and child in America for that. So a family of 5 would have gotten a check for $45000.

    Instead the Democratic party is creating a whole new group of entitlements rather than do the smart thing and reduce taxes. How about eliminate payroll taxes for 6 months including FICA?

    I was as excited as anyone to see President Obama as our commander in chief but he is a complete dunce when it comes to the economy.
     
  2. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    I, on the other hand, was so terribly frightened.
     
  3. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    You, I fear, were the more astute of the 2 of us. He hasn't done one thing right since taking office. He can't even find honest nominees, what a stumblebum.
     
  4. Indybottombiguy

    Indybottombiguy New Member

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    P3 - Pelosi's Puppet President That's the nice version; I'm sure others can up with something more degrading (no thank you).
     
  5. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Yes this bailout is going right into the pockets of the executives who are responsible for this mess. The bonus cap is a total joke, any CEO worth his salt can get around that. Recipients of bailout money have already found a way around the bonus cap and are STILL unjustly enriching themselves with taxpayer money.

    A Bonus by Any Other Name Still Smells Like Money -- Daily Intel -- New York News Blog -- New York Magazine

     
  6. sarah-o

    sarah-o New Member

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    You Americans think you have politician problems - we in the UK have Gordon 'Gormless' Brown who is currently borrowing, borrowing, borrowing to spend, spend, spend.
     
  7. Flashy

    Gold Member

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    Gordon Brown is a very dour fellow, seemingly.

    He makes John Major seem dynamic :smile:
     
  8. D_Ted Riding Hooded

    D_Ted Riding Hooded New Member

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    I not saying I like the 'sweaty' but he hasn't got the North Sea oil/gas revenues to fall back on like Thatcher did, which she blew!!
    Oh and she sold off things we already owned and wasted the proceeds.....
     
  9. mindseye

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    No, you weren't. Do you want me to dig up the "figurehead in blackface" quote? Or the affirmative action thread? This is anything but an "I liked him at first, but I've changed my mind" thread.

    So, yeah, how dare Obama try something that worked during our last great Depression instead of more of the same tired crap that got us into this depression.

    And finally: Your quotation isn't by Thomas Jefferson. It's Gerald Ford (source).
     
  10. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Sadly my figurehead in blackface was accurate. Pelosi and Reid are playing him like a puppet. He nominates people who lie to him until caught. Affirmative action is a joke and anti American and has a stunningly low favorable rate

    If you had any education at all and have followed economic theory like I have had and read countless essays on economic theory you would know what is being tried now failed miserably after the Great Depression. Roosevelt said it himself. Keynes discounted his own theory.

    Here is a link:

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/01/14/did-the-new-deal-help/

    Well whoever said it, it is damn true. I can't find out who said it. Some say it WAS Ford's quote and mis attributed to Jefferson. Still works for me. Good work on your part.

    And go ahead dig up my posts . I never said I thought he would be a bad president IF he stood up to the democratic Congress. Right now he is Stepin Fetchit to Pelosi's Geppetto. Stimulus for health care???!!!!! Health care unemployment is 1.5%!!.
     
  11. sargon20

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    Don't anyone bother going to a Cato Institute link. Neo-cons who got us into this mess now says they know how to get us out. Right. Right.
     
  12. slurper_la

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    reduce taxes for whom? the rich again?

    and eliminating payroll taxes has absolutely no effect on 6 million people who DO NOT HAVE JOBS!!!
     
  13. Jason

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    We've had a decade of superb PR from Blair-Brown. Everyone loved them. The US seems to think that Blair is both superman and best friend of the US, while Brown goes one better and actually believes he is superman. The EU apparently wants to make Blair the first president. We've had a deceade of Alice in Wonderland economics - spend now, borrow some more, and someone else will pay the day after tomorrow. Everyone loved it, and voted for Labour despite the catastrophy of the Iraq war. The PR was wonderful. Labour told us the socialist utopia was here.

    Now it has gone spectacularly wrong. Underneath the PR there is no substance. The government is mired in sleaze and facing a series of court cases. Before Christmas they thought they might win a spring election so they spent money they didn't have to bribe the electorate. Of course the economy has got worse - Gordon Brown has now called it a depression - and if he cared about the country would call an election because no one trusts him to build a way forward. Instead we face another 18 months of a failing Labour government seeking to entrench socialist values within society.

    Gordon Brown has broken Britain. Because of his stupidity and arrogance the problems for Britain are far bigger than they should be. Now he's talking of printing money, and the probability is that it will happen.

    The lessons for America are don't follow the mistakes of Britain. I'm curious to know how Americans would react in a few months' time if Obama says he is going to print dollars. It would have been unthinkable in Britain to print pounds, but now it is more likely than not that it will happen. Will Obama follow the lead of Gord the Gormless?
     
  14. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    That decision is not really up to Obama but the Federal Reserve, which is Federal in name only, ie, a private bank.

    Not only is it bad that it would print more money, but it does so and charges the government interest for that new money printed to pay off old debt.

    So when that money runs out, they will print even more money, with interest.

    It goes on and on which means so long as our central bank exists, we will ALWAYS be in debt. It's built into their system.

    Which is why the best thing we could do as a country is dissolve the Federal Reserve and institute a truly nationalized bank.
     
  15. Elmer Gantry

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    But it didn't work. FDR made a lot of mistakes in his first term and probably turned a bad recession into the Great Depression.

    He also didn't inherit the largest deficit ever seen before, so he had a bit of spending power to begin with.
     
  16. Elmer Gantry

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    No, but it would enable businesses to employ an extra person or two if it wasn't so damn expensive to do.
     
  17. Phil Ayesho

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    What an idiot.

    Borrow money from Future American tax payments and give it to the taxpayers...
    And what will you do with that?



    Look... stop blaming this ion the Dems... IT was the Republicans who pushed thru the bank bailouts... with ZERO oversight and accountability.

    It was the Republicans who WEAKENED federal regualtion and oversight to the point where greed and avarice sucked 3 TRILLION dollars out of circulation.

    You know where that 3 trillion IS right now?

    Its sitting in the offshore accounts of 400 of Bush's closest family friends and political supporters.

    What do you think the chances are that we can get them to just GIVE IT BACK?

    I just love that way gys like you just disregard the fact the Republican legislation, republican rule, has totally FUCKED the entire global economy.

    You guys fucked up getting Bin Laden, fucked up iraq, fucked up our army, and fucked up our economy...

    And now that the Democrats have to try and fix what you have broken... you start whining about entitlements.

    Fact- no entitlement is in the bailout bill. NOT ONE.

    Fact- Give taxpayers money and they will NOT buy things with it, they will pay off their debt with it... and that won't create ONE job.

    Tax cuts ONLY benefit the people who STILL HAVE JOBS. It won't put ONE person back to work.

    You want proof?
    Compare you PRE-Bush era tax cut home value to your Post bush adminstration home value. Compare your PRE_Bush tax cut stock value to your Post Bush tax cut stock value.

    For 8 years, no growth in real income for most Americans... no growth in real home value...
    All just hyperbole and wild speculation... a house of cards.


    ECON 101
    To stimulate spending, you do not give money to people who already have enough money to live comfortably.
    They don't HAVE to spend the money.

    To stimulate the economy you give money to the lower income earners and create jobs that employ people who are out of work.

    People earning less than $80,000 a year don't have a choice, they HAVE to spend nearly all the money they earn.

    THose people BUYING things is what ramps up demand and gets CEOs to hire back laid off workers.


    See?
    It really is simple.



    PLUS... by creating those jobs in sectors like Public works and infrastrsuture, the Federal government gets the BENEFIT of actually GETTING something for all tha money... namely, updated infrastructure.

    Again, thanks top dipshit republicans since Reagan UNDERFUNDING infrastructure maintenance, we are a super power whose roads and damns and levees and electrical grids are crumbling into rubble.


    Just more proof that the theory that "Government is the Problem" is believed only by numbskulls who CAN'T GOVERN.

    I guess if you don't understand something... if its way over your head... the easiest thing to do is to deride it.


    The Democrats are going to have to try and bring the nation BACK from the literal edge of the right wing precipice that YOU GUYS made happen.

    They will not turn the nation "communist", they will turn the nation back to a balance of governmental authority OVER a regulated free market.

    Oh, and, BTW- your evocation of Jefferson?
    Jefferson was the one who insisted that the primary job of the federal government was to REGULATE commerce.

    And he was in favor of regular revolutions- Jefferson would have been the one leading the charge to overthrow the Bush administration and the Republican led congress for violating the constitution.

    Sorry- Republicans HAD their lock on power... and showed themselves to be the Corporate lapdogs and treasonous enemies of the constitution that they have evolved into.

    You guys really need to come up with some other tactic than mindless opposition...

    Try making FACT based arguments and admitting the difference between truth and spin.
     
  18. treefarmer

    treefarmer New Member

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    Only the "rich" can get a tax cut of any significance. I talked with a woman (single--living with her boyfriend and her two girls) at work who makes about $8,500 a year out of which the withholding totaled just over $700. I knew she didn't make much, but she kept saying she should get a taxcut. She also talked about getting her tax refund check and how she spent it on new furniture and a couple of nights on the town with her husb ... boyfriend. I asked her how much she got and she said just over $3,000. Even though she got back 3 times as much as was withheld, after one hour trying to explain her situation and where her refund was coming from, she said she still thought she ought to get a taxcut and not the "rich."

    How dense are leftists about this issue? She voted for Obama and made it plain and clear that she did. No wonder Obama was elected with dense leftists like this.
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And maybe she does.
    You don't know her daily, weekly or monthly expenses. Just going by numbers without even going into major detail about her way of life is very naive. Dare I ask if you raise children?

    Well, that sucks. Regardless, it's not unusual for people to try and treat themselves. We'd hope that most people would have some sense on this issue, however, that differs from person to person. Some people buy furniture and take their loved ones on the town. Others buy private jets and spend millions on weekend excursions. :rolleyes:

    That's because she has two children and our current tax laws give much more leniency to those who have kids. Pretty obvious if you ask me.

    From what you've listed, even with the tax benefits she only grosses about $12K a year. She also has to raise two kids and doesn't have any real way to contribute to her or her children's future. Technically, this woman's financial breakdown puts her below the national poverty level. If she didn't live with her boyfriend she would be screwed right now.

    Not dense enough to ignore the fact that $12K a year isn't enough for anyone to live on. :rolleyes:

    So did nearly 67 million other people as well.

    If you look in the poor areas of the South, especially in places like New Orleans, you'll find plenty of conservatives who are in the same financial situation as the woman you're trying to criticize. When you learn how numbers actually work in this country and not just assume those who don't make a lot of money are just lazy, then we can have a better discussion about money & taxes. Otherwise, just stick to your own "riches" and financial obligations.
     
  20. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    government can fix ANY and EVERY thing...
     
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