a lifetime in jail cause you cut a beard?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Perados, Nov 26, 2011.

  1. Perados

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    do you think that this is the right use of the law "crime out of hate"?
    Or do you think this law is rubbish anyway?
    Maybe you have noticed that some amish got arrested cause they cut their "priest" the beard... Now it looks like they go a lifetime in jail cause of this... On the other hand it was the priest who raped their women and beat the men and nothing will happen to him...

    Okay its not nice to cut his beard cause they wanna humilate him... but a LIFETIME?
     
    #1 Perados, Nov 26, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
  2. B_enzia35

    B_enzia35 New Member

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    Crime is crime.
     
  3. Industrialsize

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    How about a link to the story so this thread conforms to forum rules.
     
  4. MickeyLee

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    link

    OP got a few of the facts a bit jumbled.
     
  5. monel

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    Just goes to show, the incidence of "Prick-ness" knows no bounds.
     
  6. Joll

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    Hmm, not just for the beard-cutting then. And the lifetime sentence is the max possible.

    Altho...ppl do seem to get longer sentences in the US - to be made an example of? Bloke I know of is serving at least 20 years for armed robbery when no-one was actually hurt. Would probably get 5 here.

    I don't pretend to know the statistics involved tho (in comparing US and UK sentencing), it's just an impression I've got, lol.
     
  7. ConanTheBarber

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    That would be the maximum penalty, Perados.
    That doesn't imply that they'll get sentences anywhere near as severe as that.
     
  8. Domisoldo

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    Lindsay Lohan may not agree with your assessment...

     
  9. Joll

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    Lol...she wouldn't. :wink:
     
  10. Perados

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    I know thats the maximum... But even the possibility is stupid.
    And why this penalty? Cause he is an amish priest...

    If they had done it with a catholic priest or an ordinary neighbor it wouldnt be so hard... (cause the beard isnt "holy" for others)
    Crime is crime no matter who i harm...
    Its so stupid to say please hurt only your rase. If a white men kills a black one its a "crime out of hate" but if a white men kills a white men not... So would it be a "crime out of love"?

    My point is that its stupid or even rasistic to say if i harm someone with a different religion or skin color its a bigger crime then else...


    ... Amish... What a luck that they left germany ;)
     
    #10 Perados, Nov 26, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
  11. houtx48

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    6 months for cutting old peoples, hair 98 years and 6 months for being religious nutbags
     
  12. Zayne

    Zayne New Member

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    I would cut my beard, but prison wouldn't be the cause. Good thread!
     
  13. dandelion

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    And justice is frequently not.

    The Uk has introduced higher penalties for religiously motivated violence (or anti-religious, as it might be), I was doubtful myself. Smacks of outlawing freedom of expression to say I may not claim religion x is a load of daft **** and everyone should have this explained to them. Are you any worse off because you were stabbed for being religion x rather than being rich?
     
  14. lucky8

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    Ya our justice system is pretty fucked. We throw people in jail for years for the dumbest shit, while we let violent and sexual offenders walk on probation and parole. Just look at this poor guy, he's facing 75 years behind bars for video taping police on his front yard..which is NOT illegal anywhere in the US. Michael Allison Faces 75 Years in Jail for Recording Cops with Cell Phone | Video | TheBlaze.com Part of the problem is a lot of cops really don't know the laws, they just arrest people with a "figure the charges out later" mentality. I mean, how can someone be arrested for ONLY resisting arrest? Does that make any sense?
     
    #14 lucky8, Nov 27, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  15. Fuzzy_

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    Thanks, Lucky. Apparently this guy was charged with "eavesdropping", a Class 1 crime in some states (15 years in jail). Is it just Fuzzy or does abuse of police powers seem to be increasing a lot lately?

    Police have discretion for arrest, detainment and pressing charges, which adds flexibility to a rigid, black-and-white system. Police departments can have charges dropped (or release a detained person), but it's not their sole fault if somebody is indicted for a nonsense crime. Prosecutors have a lot of discretion when choosing to seek an indictment, largely based on probable cause and precedents. Judges can dismiss the indictment in a preliminary hearing for the same reasons. Fuzzy finds it dumbfounding that nobody in this chain of command realized how ridiculous this charge was.

    CCTV cameras are used by the police more than ever, with new technologies being developed to allow them to see under our clothes. In downtown London, a person (or vehicle) can be visually tracked on CCTV without ever losing sight of them. Cops don't seem to like it when the tables are turned, and they are pressing for laws against being recorded in many countries.
     
  16. lucky8

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    It isn't just CCTV cameras anymore either. Police in the US have full authority to place GPS tracking devices on anyone's car, anytime, for any reason. Tracking devices!! It's been happening to innocent people who haven't done anything wrong! They're rolling out cameras, microphones, and audio systems in street lights here as well. On top of that, SOPA will give the police the right to come to our homes and arrest us for STREAMING copyrighted content on our computers. It's an assault on our rights and most people are just letting it happen
     
  17. dreamer20

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    The Amish in question weren't arrested for cutting their "priest's" beard. From an article which reveals what actually happened and to whom:

    Hate crime charges filed in Amish beard cutting - CNN

    "The Amish who were attacked are believed to be former members of Mullet's group who left over various disagreements. Mullet wanted to "seek revenge and punish the departing families," the federal documents said.

    "In doing so, the defendants forcibly restrained multiple Amish men and cut off their beards and head hair with scissors and battery-powered clippers, causing bodily injury to these men while also injuring others who attempted to stop the attacks," the Justice Department said. "In the Amish religion, a man's beard and head hair are sacred."
     
    #17 dreamer20, Nov 27, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  18. Perados

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    who cares if its sacred... Its just hair it will grow back. To say i have to punish someone harder cause "something" is sacred dangeros... Who desites what is sacred, the gov or you?

    For the amish the beard hp sacred... Okay for me is my car sacred. As soon as someone gets me in a trafic crash i want him a life time in jail...
    For moslems is mohamed sacred, no more jokes about him or jail...
    For christians is it jesus...
    I guess you get to what sutch a law can lead

    And as soon as you say the race or religon is importent when we talk about crime. Like to make a different in punishment if you harm someone of the same/different race... Then it isnt far to say to harm one race/religon is more bad then the other


    Okay they went in his house and cut some hair... I dont say they shouldnt get punished maybe 6 month and 500$ each... Its about the law and the possibility of sutch a hard punishment
     
    #18 Perados, Nov 27, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  19. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    When this story came over the news I was initially perplexed, and the more I heard from actual news sources the issues were really not what was initially thought.

    Those arrested for "beard chopping" were in fact a very power mad and small group of men from within a particular group of Amish Individuals. The individuals doing the cutting were nothing more or less than "thugs" who were sent by a controlling individual much as the perception is of Fred Phelps who uses incredible intimidation to accomplish what he does.

    You may be surprised but Fuzzy Ken has a friend back in Pennsylvania that is in fact Amish and came from that background. Though he left the religion himself he is still close to the family that is on the inside.

    To an Amish man within this particular sect the facial hair is a part of the religion as much as it is within certain parts of the Jewish faith. The removal of the beards was a personal invasion of the religious beliefs of the victims by a tyrant out to impose his views upon them and "keep them in line".

    This has potential to be a landmark case in many ways and there are parts of this case that have potential to come in to other cases where "religious dictators" resort to questionable means to keep their "flock" in line. It also has potential to affect the more radical religious figures including Fred Phelps. Time will tell on this one not because of the cutting or shaving of hair, but, because of the way these young men, members of a religious sect were sent out to commit an act of battery on others.
     
  20. dreamer20

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