A long one...

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Rugbypup, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Rugbypup

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    I have a question, perhaps somewhere between a curiosity and a rambling, lol. All are welcome but please, no bitchers with reference to centuries old posts if they exist and a cutting remark. Its just rude.

    99% of you are beautiful people and I love LPSG for the genuine quality of its members, even if some of you are straight, lol. That was a joke for the over sensative among us. :)

    Anyways, i want to ask about masculinity, more so the difference between just being a male and being a 'man'. I use the term 'man' as in it traditional conotations, qualities and even its architype, which, perhaps rightly or wrongly, many many men are still measured against today.

    I read that as men, the only way (as males) we achieve recognised masculinity is by having it given to us by other mens acknowledgment of it and to a lesser degree, of women too. It's not something you simply have or achieve by yourself.

    So... straight, bi or gay...

    Do you consider yourself to be a 'man' or do you feel you somehow fall short of the definition or the perseption? If you do, what is it that gives you the sense of identification? If you dont, what is it you feel you're missing?As men, we are all males yes, but are you a man? What dose being a man mean to you, how do you define in?

    I find this subject fasinating because ultimatly, although i feel male and in no way effeminate, i dont really veiw myself as a 'man'. Im not talking gender confusion before someone starts, im male and know and feel it, i dont want to be a woman thank you, lol, nothing against women there, i respect women, even if they can frighteningly bleed throughout the year and not die, lol.

    What i mean is you can look or meet some guys, regardless of sexuality and you kinda instinctivly know they're a 'man' and i just dont feel that regarding myself. It's like, some guys where given a hand book on being a 'man' and i just missed the memo about it if that makes senses.

    Am i the only one out there?

    Feel free to ramble in reply, i love listening to the thoughts and views of other men about their sense of masculinity.
     
  2. Mule

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    Yes I do consider myself a 'man.' Why? Well I suppose it means that I do everything I can to live up to my idea of what a man should be: I try to be honest, to conduct myself with honour and integrity. I can be a steadfast rock for others, but I look for my own weaknesses so that I might improve. I am confident in my abilities but I am always trying to be better. I hold my opinions because I have carefully thought them through, but I'm willing to be challenged and change my views if a new way seems better.
     
  3. Sixofspades

    Sixofspades New Member

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    It's my opinion that for a straight guy, 'being a man' is mostly about the pressures that come with having a wife and children. Guys as such are happy doing anything, whether it's watching tv all day or playing guitar under a bridge, and I think given the choice, a lot of us would choose a headache-free life. But we're sort of suckered into this notion that starting a family is really the only way to go, and with that comes the responsibility of being the head of the house and making ends meet, ensuring that you're being a proper provider and catering to the needs of your woman and kids.

    The problem is that the demands put on a guy seem to grow exponentially with each generation. When my dad was young, saving for the kids' university for example was not a done thing, and now I have debt because I went. When I see the kind of pressures put on my parents by us kids, and how that only seems to magnify itself with every generation, I think 'no thanks'. We're all working longer hours and have more and more things to manage to the point where you think 'where does this madness end?' - it's no wonder we're all on medication for depression and insomnia.

    I'm a young guy but I already feel the forces of the world funneling me into that void, which is something I'm actually going to try to escape for as long as possible. They build up the ideal of creating a family as something wonderful and meaningful and I'm sure that it is for a lot of people. It's just that it's too much for someone like me. Maybe that's just a personal shortcoming though, I don't know. It's just that the thought of everything in life combined - building credit, paying all bills, saving for retirement, building equity, saving for kids' education, etc etc seems like a path to the mental hospital.

    It's funny too how when you're young, being reckless and carefree is a cool thing to do - whoever fucks about the most, skips school and smokes pot is the man. But then you grow up and unless you completely do a 180 and become responsible in every aspect of life, you're a failure.

    In any case, I think it's a shame that kind of thing is what we're measured by now, but I suppose it's the way of the world. It won't affect my view of myself if I decide to not start a family later or manage my life efficiently and I suppose really, that's all that matters. At the end of the day, your own personal convictions trump all else.
     
  4. psidom

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    from my viewpoint, i always felt "being a man"
    means you are mature enough to feel true compassion and empathy.
    without that you are still a boy i feel.
    same goes for girls/women as well.
    just my idea.:smile:
     
  5. pavement

    pavement New Member

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    Well if I'm not mistaken man is the derivative of the word human so a man is 1 who is human.
    Evaluating any inexorable delineation between masculinity and man unless self corrective may retain a gap between the necessary and the possible. Externalised objective methods of determining verifiability might remain elusive but in it's importance be questioned.
    So as to how interesting it invariably is might be deemed to be preferable.
     
  6. crescendo69

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    To me, it has to do with standing up to life's "bullies", whether they be actual people, organizations, or even your own fears, imagined or not.

    A certain boss had it in for me and tried to fire me. After almost giving in, my uncle advised me to "be a man" and stand up to him. I took that advice and used various resources (including a union contract) to appeal his decision. Eventually he changed his mind.

    I seem to attract various kinds of bullies, and am still growing as a man, even in my 50's.
     
  7. kudo451

    kudo451 New Member

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    Being 43 and having known so many levels at which I have struggled with the question masculinity, I have to say there is some truth to the fact that masculinity is rewarded or dishonored by outside influences. However, Masculinity itself is a personal definition that everybody defines differently. Society usually judges you on how well you act out their version of masculinity but it is your own vision that will always be your foundation. Your own choice defines you as a man. of course there is strength and maturity and hopefully wisdom that go with that, but that is true for every person regardless of being male female, both or even trans-gendered. You pick the aspects of what makes you a man. The world will judge and you then you have to decide if you have been judged fairly. Though at some point everyone decides that they are just going to be who they are.
     
  8. wannabigman

    wannabigman New Member

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    dam straight im a man because i take care of business.
     
  9. viking1

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    I have often wondered if I'm a real man. I'm still wondering now...
     
  10. Rugbypup

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    Thanks for answering, all very insightful.
     
  11. Osiris

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    I am a man. Period.

    People can think what they want to, at the end of the day it's you and those close to you who matter. Being "a man" is based on image or perception. Being a man means you are an adult who as wannabigman said "takes care of business". Being a man means you do what you have to to survive and live for you and your family.
     
  12. D_Rock_ N_Hardon

    D_Rock_ N_Hardon Account Disabled

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    I feel like a man, but when I'm with really butch, aggressive straight guys I feel more timid
     
  13. Rugbypup

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    That i understand, i often feel timid of guys. Especially if they're confident with their masculinity.
     
  14. widenine

    widenine New Member

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    Actually, I believe your qestion is deep........and troubling to many adult males. I believe an adult male is what you are if you're 'of age" in a given society and you have male genitalia. It's completely biological and completely void of societies superimposed mores and conditions. You are unconditionally an adult male, an adolescent male, a toddler male, an infant male or a fetus male.

    Being a man has encompasses all of the acceptable conditions that society, over time, has imposed. It's your culture at work.... defining how you walk and talk, how you approach a mate, how you drink beer and bond, and all the glorious trimmings that endorse human individuality. Unfortuntely, our society does not accept non heterosexual adult males as men. They are guys, fellas, boys and pals. They don't billed families from scratch or protect women and children in general.
     
  15. D_Coyne Toss

    D_Coyne Toss New Member

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    Being a man is for every male a daily struggle, it is not a goal you achieve once and forever.

    I try my best, but sometimes I fall short of my own standards.

    Being a man, for me, is being the strenght of the family, a shelter. A man can be weak, but in any emergency men cannot afford to panic: we have to be mean and bold, and sail our families out of danger.

    Being a man is being strong but yet tender and loving with your family, able to touch your heart while looking at your woman sleeping, but able also to be tough when necessary.

    A man should respect his woman, and fight for her. A woman deserves attention and care, and men are to give them. Being respectful but still the cornerstone of a family is irrenounciable.

    I own a penis and a pair of testicles, so I am a male.
     
  16. Corius

    Corius New Member

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    Our society imposes certain expectations on us as males, but it does the same with females. Many of those expectations were questionable eveb when they first appeared. Many of those expectations are weakening today. Growing up it was important to each of us to develop a image of ourselves with which we could be comfortable. And, we were also urged to become comfortable with others whose self-image differed from our own. It should be more important for each of us to become fully human never feeling the need to prove our manliness and never afraid to show those qualities which are mistakenly assigned almost exclusively to females: tenderness, caring, and the like. Many boys are cheated along the way because too many adults simply excuse their crudities by saying "boys will be boys." Even boys have to grow up. What grown ups view as befitting a man will vary but it ought never to be threatening to our sense that all persons have equal rights which the rest of us ought to respect.
     
  17. Stephenmass

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    I think being a man is accepting yourself fully. I think being a man is not only doing that, but having the maturity and the wisdom to realize that EVERY man has questioned himself all the way thru I bet in how well he is doing in being his perception of a man.

    I also think it's accepting yourself even realizing all of your own imperfections. And accepting those too.

    Realizing that in the long haul I think that all others are just like me, some guys just seem to "hold up" better than others!
     
  18. Indybottombiguy

    Indybottombiguy New Member

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    I know I'm a man. I can do nearly anything I want. I can fix things, destroy things, fight, defend, love, please a woman, make babies (not anymore), support myself and my family, and I carry my share and take respnsibility for my actions and charges given to me.

    I can hang out with guys in the Unions. I can talk to CEOs. I can also please a man like a woman cannot. Do some of the guys I hang out with wonder if I'm not 100% staight? I don't know and I don't care.
     
  19. hung

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    First of all, I am a Male. I am also a Man. I am comfortable with my own skin. In short that means that I am happy with who I am.

    I have enjoyed life and always tried my best to measure up to my own expectations. I must admit that at times I have fallen short. Did I let that get me down. No, not for the long term.

    I have lived as a U. S. Navy Sailor without the financial resources that many enjoy; however I consider that I have done quite well by managing my limited financial resources.

    I have also worked in a large factory. I enjoyed and appreciated the high pay and I am full of gratitude that this job has allowed me to retire in comfort. Do I have everything I want. No, but I have more than enough to meet my needs.

    I care about people and often share my limited wisdom with others. They can take it or leave it. I will willingly share. I have a large range of life experiences that I can share with others.

    I enjoy the present and look forward to the future. I keep myself busy with gardening, photography and enjoy the moment in time that I am placed in.

    Do I look back. Yes, but do I let the past hamper my future. No!!

    I try to be a great husband and lover - working on that since 1972 so I must be doing something correct.

    Yet I acknowledge that I was recycled in 1971, but that is another story.

    I am proud to be a Dad and even a Grand Dad!

    I look forward to a long healthy life and am now finally working on staying fit with proper food consumption and an exercise program.

    Being a Man can be a Challenge, but as I stated in the opening, I am comfortable in my own Skin.

    Yet I can appreciate all people and how they choose to live. Life on this earth is far to short to not appreciate the moment and all that abounds in Nature. Enjoy Life is my mantra.


    Thanks for the opportunity to participate in this topic.
     
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