A mosque at Ground Zero!

[ColoradoGuy]

I see the President supports the building of the mosque and I get his reasoning.


His words given at an Iftar dinner at The White House yesterday:




But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. (Applause.) And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure.

We must never forget those who we lost so tragically on 9/11, and we must always honor those who led the response to that attack -– from the firefighters who charged up smoke-filled staircases, to our troops who are serving in Afghanistan today. And let us also remember who we’re fighting against, and what we’re fighting for. Our enemies respect no religious freedom. Al Qaeda’s cause is not Islam -– it’s a gross distortion of Islam. These are not religious leaders -– they’re terrorists who murder innocent men and women and children. In fact, al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion -– and that list of victims includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11.

Above quotes from President Obama located at Obama Backs NY Ground Zero Mosque : The Two-Way : NPR

I appreciate that the President resisted the urge to voice his opinions until the matter had been fully settled in New York. I know some people felt he was wrong to delay weighing in on the subject, but I think he learned silence can sometimes be preferable after getting caught up in the middle of the Gates arrest controversy in Cambridge before the local authorities had the ability to exercise their prerogatives.

I think the President's comments are spot on and I applaud his statement.

 

[Industrialsize]

"An enormously complex and emotional issue -- but ultimately the right thing to do. A president is president for every citizen, including every Muslim citizen. Obama is correct that the way to marginalize radicalism is to respect the best traditions of Islam and protect the religious liberty of Muslim Americans. It is radicals who imagine an American war on Islam. But our conflict is with the radicals alone,” - Michael Gerson, former speech-writer for George W. Bush.

 

[Kevin7X6]

I think we should build a mosque next to every prime target in the United States.

 

[Stretch]

I think we should build a mosque next to every prime target in the United States.

To feed your unique brand of ironic humor?

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Good to see a President sit on the right side of the fence. No Pun intended.

 

[Industrialsize]

And it turns out the "9/11 Families" are NOT a monolith:
September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows strongly supports efforts to bring an Islamic Cultural Center to lower Manhattan, near the Ground Zero site. We believe that welcoming the Center, which is intended to promote interfaith tolerance and respect, is consistent with fundamental American values of freedom and justice for all.
Peaceful Tomorrows : 9/11 Families Group Announces Support for Islamic Cultural Center in Lower Manhattan

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

Before seeing Indy's post, I was surprised that in all of the myriad opinions this topic raises, that the feelings of the families, who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks, had not been measurably taken into account. That still seems like the obvious place to have started any discussion of the subject.

A couple of NYC notes, if polls are to be believed, 68% of New Yawkers oppose building the mosque. The figures seem to cut across gender, age, and political lines.

Rick Lazio, Republican candidate for Governor, brings up a relevant point: the group who has proposed building the project, The Cordoba Initiative, has only $14K in their bank account, which is a bit short of the purported $100M price tag. Given the disparity between the two $$ figures, Lazio wants to know where is the money going to come from, i.e. is it coming from overseas. Which seems a fair question. However, would it be asked if the project was a church? The answer would probably be no, but if members of that church had flown planes into a building close-by, then I think it would also be a fair question.

BTW - the construction on the "Freedom Tower" (GZ) is finally moving with some speed. The area is buzzing with work.

» Image1 - Freedom Tower News

Here's the home page of the group leading the effort: (apologies if any or all of these points have been covered already...)

Home Page | Cordoba

Allegedly the ADL has committed to a bus billboard campaign against the project. Here's their op-ed response on the subject.

http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Interfaith/Mosque_Ground_Zero.htm

Here's an effort to block the mosque on the basis of landmark building status. A contention Mayor Bloomberg, who to his credit supports the project, denies.

Group Sues to Block Ground Zero Mosque Project - DNAinfo.com

Here's an interview with a construction worker calling for a boycott to build the mosque. He was also on Fox News.

’9/11 HARD HAT PLEDGE’ against the Ground Zero Victory Mosque

Here's a variation on the subject I had not anticipated, but does has resonance, on the theme of tolerance, in all it's aspects, especially here.

Liberal Dilemma Over Ground Zero Mosque Gay Bar

Lastly, here's a topical note on the tolerance of Christianity in Islamic Turkey, which was brought up earlier. Apparently the Turks have allowed a Christian mass in a Greek Orthodox Church in Sumela for the first time in almost 90 years.

Turkey Allows Christian Service - WSJ.com

 

[Industrialsize]

I think the obvious place to start is the US Constitution.

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

I think the obvious place to start is the US Constitution.

Ordinarily yes, but the circumstances here are not ordinary.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Allegedly the ADL has committed to a bus billboard campaign against the project. Here's their op-ed response on the subject.

http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Interfaith/Mosque_Ground_Zero.htmhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703382304575431400969083186.html?KEYWORDS=turkey

This link is screwed up.
At least on my computer, it leads to the story about Turkey allowing a Christian religious service for the first time in nine decades.
(Copying the link and pasting it into the browser calls up the right story.)

 

[TomCat84]

Ordinarily yes, but the circumstances here are not ordinary.

duc, I like all the sources you posted, except for the last one. The tolerance (or non tolerance for that matter) of various Islamic countries for religions other than Islam is NOT relevant in this debate. This debate is whether or not the US Constitution allows for this mosque to be built. This is an open and shut case. The feelings of the 9/11 families is NOT relevant. The fact that the vast majority of New Yorkers oppose this is NOT relevant. Please leave these out of the debate, and stick to the core issue: whether or not the US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion.

 

[Bbucko]

Harry Reid, when pushed by Sharon Angle to comment, has come out against the Cordoba House. I''m unclear how he can justify the cognitive dissonance of being a Mormon who doesn't understand religious tolerance.

 

[nudeyorker]

duc, I like all the sources you posted, except for the last one. The tolerance (or non tolerance for that matter) of various Islamic countries for religions other than Islam is NOT relevant in this debate. This debate is whether or not the US Constitution allows for this mosque to be built. This is an open and shut case. The feelings of the 9/11 families is NOT relevant. The fact that the vast majority of New Yorkers oppose this is NOT relevant. Please leave these out of the debate, and stick to the core issue: whether or not the US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion.

Whether you agree with it or not all of the issues and view points brought to this discussion are actually relevant.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Harry Reid, when pushed by Sharon Angle to comment, has come out against the Cordoba House. I''m unclear how he can justify the cognitive dissonance of being a Mormon who doesn't understand religious tolerance.

Do you think all opponents of building the mosque at the proposed site are religiously intolerant?
I'm sure many aren't ... they merely oppose this particular location.
(I have no idea about Harry Reid.)
Personally, I have no problem with the location, but neither do I believe that all opponents of the project are intolerant.

 

[TomCat84]

Whether you agree with it or not all of the issues and view points brought to this discussion are actually relevant.

No. I strongly disagree. The only relevant question is whether US law permits us to deny the building of the mosque.

 

[TomCat84]

Do you think all opponents of building the mosque at the proposed site are religiously intolerant?
I'm sure many aren't ... they merely oppose this particular location.
(I have no idea about Harry Reid.)
Personally, I have no problem with the location, but neither do I believe that all opponents of the project are intolerant.

No, I guess we're not saying they are intolerant- maybe Islamaphobic, even slightly. To oppose it being so close to Ground Zero (how far is far enough, BTW?) implies they think Islam itself is responsible for the 9/11 attack. How is this not Islamaphobic?

 

[nudeyorker]

No. I strongly disagree. The only relevant question is whether US law permits us to deny the building of the mosque.

Last time I checked the title of the thread was still *A Mosque At Ground Zero* Not *Does US Law Permit Us To Deny The Building Of The Mosque*

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

No. I strongly disagree. The only relevant question is whether US law permits us to deny the building of the mosque.

I don't think public sentiment is entirely irrelevant. What if New Yorkers were 97 percent opposed to the project, and Americans generally were 93 percent opposed?
Also, quite apart from legal perspectives, there are always moral considerations to apply.
I'm not saying what those moral considerations might be ... only saying that answering the legal questions won't answer all the substantive and relevant questions.
(Now, if the project were illegal, that would ordinarily put paid to the project, and rightly so.)

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

To oppose it being so close to Ground Zero (how far is far enough, BTW?) implies they think Islam itself is responsible for the 9/11 attack. How is this not Islamaphobic?

I don't think it implies that.
It means merely that they sustain a deep feeling of discomfort from that siting. Which would be human enough, imo.
And if they feel such discomfort, they will oppose building the mosque at that location.
Whether that discomfort should carry the day is another question.

How far is far enough? Dunno. Two blocks is far enough for me ... but who am I?:shysmile:

 

[Bbucko]

Do you think all opponents of building the mosque at the proposed site are religiously intolerant?
I'm sure many aren't ... they merely oppose this particular location.
(I have no idea about Harry Reid.)
Personally, I have no problem with the location, but neither do I believe that all opponents of the project are intolerant.

I think that a reflexive recoil from building the Cordoba house is centered around Islamophobia, yes. Of course I cannot account for what goes on in the head of everyone who opposes it: in Harry Reid's case, I think it's a cynical political ploy to exploit Islamophobia in NV. He's got an election coming up.

I'm actually really familiar with the area. In 1988, I lived on Greenwich St between Warren and Murray Sts (look at the top of this map, just left of center). If you take a look at the slide-show that begins with that map, you'll see exactly how diverse that neighborhood really is, though someone as well traveled as Hhuck surely has a passing familiarity with Lower Manhattan :wink: