A mosque at Ground Zero!

[Industrialsize]

I think it depends largely on where you are getting your data for these polls. The polls of NY voters state that 54% percent are opposed. Even more sadly for those of us who live in NY... The MTA has accepted advertisements depicting the photos of the Twin Towers on 9/11 from a group in opposition to the project. They are supposed to be on the NYC buses and subways as early as next week.
I think I'll go back to Hawaii

You are right, about 54% of New Yorkers are opposed. But when you break it down by borough, Manhattanites are 53% in favor.

 

[nudeyorker]

You are right, about 54% of New Yorkers are opposed. But when you break it down by borough, Manhattanites are 53% in favor.

This was just reported on NY1 that 54% of NYC (Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island and The Bronx are opposed) I'll see if I can find a link, it was just on television a minute or two ago.

 

[Boondocksaints]

Who cares what all these polls say? They can't do anything about it. The law is the law and it guarantees freedom of religion. These politician's are just using this local issue to score brownie points with the dumb, ethnocentric hillbilly crowd.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Who cares what all these polls say? They can't do anything about it. The law is the law and it guarantees freedom of religion. These politician's are just using this local issue to score brownie points with the dumb, ethnocentric hillbilly crowd.

Freedom of religion has nothing to do with whether a particular religious building can be put at spot X.
At least, I don't think it does.
I liked duc's post on this matter:

If we get back to the First Amendment of the Constitution, as it's oft quoted here as the open and shut rationale for allowing the mosque, the US Constitution says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...." It seem to me this language doesn't guarantee any place of worship may be built anywhere, but only that the Congress may not prohibit a religion, just as it may not declare a state sanctioned one.

 

[DevonTexas]

Who cares what all these polls say? They can't do anything about it. The law is the law and it guarantees freedom of religion. These politician's are just using this local issue to score brownie points with the dumb, ethnocentric hillbilly crowd.

so, you're calling half of NYC "dumb ethnocentric hillbillies"?

 

[Industrialsize]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....

It's the last part.If the Cordoba Center meets all local regulations and are denied the right to build simply because they are Muslim, you can bet that if they chose to do so, that decision would be overturned in Court so rapidly your head would spin.

 

[DevonTexas]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....

It's the last part.If the Cordoba Center meets all local regulations and are denied the right to build simply because they are Muslim, you can bet that if they chose to do so, that decision would be overturned in Court so rapidly your head would spin.

Yes. But you're quoting what congress can do. The local municipal government can probably attempt to re-locate it. Cities do this all the time with non-profits, businesses and schools and art centers.

 

[Industrialsize]

Yes. But you're quoting what congress can do. The local municipal government can probably attempt to re-locate it. Cities do this all the time with non-profits, businesses and schools and art centers.

Non-profits, businesses and schools and art centers are not protected by the US constitution, free exercise of Religion is.

 

[tigolbitties]

Let's face some facts... Islam is more than a religion. It's a way of life that demands the death of everyone who disagrees with them. Allowing them to build a place of worship to their god who demands them commit violent acts on top of the graves of the thousands they murdered is not a good idea.

 

[Industrialsize]

Let's face some facts... Islam is more than a religion. It's a way of life that demands the death of everyone who disagrees with them. Allowing them to build a place of worship to their god who demands them commit violent acts on top of the graves of the thousands they murdered is not a good idea.

Actually, for Al-Qaeda and other terrorists(not the majority of 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide) a PERVERSION of Islam is a way of life that demands the death of everyone who disagrees with them.

 

[tigolbitties]

Actually, for Al-Qaeda and other terrorists(not the majority of 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide) a PERVERSION of Islam is a way of life that demands the death of everyone who disagrees with them.

Umm... no. The Koran commands it.

If these Muslims want to build this Mosque, they should be forced to:

A) Apologize and condemn the attacks of 9/11 publically
B) Denounce all sections of the Koran that are violent and sign an agreement that if such parts of their text are read at worship that they will donate the building to a charity that works with families of 9/11 victims.

 

[flame boy]

The way I see it personally, presuming all people who worship the Islamic faith are up to no good is no better than presuming all Christian people are far-right gun-toting homo-hating bible-bashing nutjobs. Tarring people with the same brush is a very unwise and narrow minded thing to do. The actions of one does not represent to the actions of all.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Let's face some facts... Islam is more than a religion. It's a way of life that demands the death of everyone who disagrees with them.

That is not a fact, but another convoluted belief. All of the links to propagated YouTube videos, politically opinionated editorials and percentages reflecting the opinions of other discriminating people do not turn opinions into facts. Maintaining the rights of the Constitution is never reduced to a popularity contest either. And unless there is a gross misrepresentation of its words (as with previous outbursts of political wingnuttery over the last 18 months) there are no exceptions. End of story.

Am I the only one that feels as if the civil rights movement came to a screeching halt and started rolling backwards over the last year or so? At the current rate, it won't be long before I receive a letter from the government telling me that my name is Toby and where to report to duty.

If these Muslims want to build this Mosque, they should be forced to:

A) Apologize and condemn the attacks of 9/11 publically

The ones you need to speak to are all dead. Funny thing about suicide bombing attacks is that the culprit usually doesn't have much to say once the act is completed.

However, why are you willing to hold the rest of the 1.57 billion people who follow Islam accountable for the actions of 19 lunatics? Because "killing" is in their Koran? That would be the same as holding 2.1 billion Christians accountable for the actions of Scott Roeder or Timothy McVeigh. It makes no sense, regardless of whatever resentment you may have. And yes, the Holy Bible has plenty of references to killing if you're a non-believer as well.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....

It's the last part. If the Cordoba Center meets all local regulations and are denied the right to build simply because they are Muslim, you can bet that if they chose to do so, that decision would be overturned in Court so rapidly your head would spin.

I may be blowing smoke out my ass, indie ... but there's no suggestion they wouldn't be allowed to build ... there is just a sentiment on the part of many people that they shouldn't build there.
I'm not sure the SCOTUS would find that a violation of the constitution.

 

[tigolbitties]

The facts I state aren't based on youtube videos or websites.
It's based on the damn Koran. I've read it.

The fact that these people ARE going out and killing people because their Koran tells them to is SCARY. We shouldn't just let them set up shop whenever they want.

Do you really think the people that want this Mosque would both:
A) Apologize and condemn the attacks of 9/11 publically
B) Denounce all sections of the Koran that are violent and sign an agreement that if such parts of their text are read at worship that they will donate the building to a charity that works with families of 9/11 victims.

???

 

[Boondocksaints]

so, you're calling half of NYC "dumb ethnocentric hillbillies"?

Ok I made a mistake- half of NY are being dumb, ethnocentric city people... whatever.

This issue is total bullshit. Legally, no one can do anything if they really wanted to build the mosque there. It's called the Constitution.

I went to HS a couple of blocks away from the World Trade Center (when it still existed) I used to walk by the Mosque building all the time
(it was Burlington Coat Factory then) You can't even see Ground Zero from there. It's just a faceless building in the middle of other faceless buildings.

These asshats like Newt Gingrich are just making it an issue for political reasons.

Umm... no. The Koran commands it.

If these Muslims want to build this Mosque, they should be forced to:

A) Apologize and condemn the attacks of 9/11 publically
B) Denounce all sections of the Koran that are violent and sign an agreement that if such parts of their text are read at worship that they will donate the building to a charity that works with families of 9/11 victims.

If Christians want to build a Church, they should be forced to:

A) Apologize and condemn the attacks of the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials, the Holocaust, Apartheid apartheid was maintained by the church-going white community with the blessing of the churches and was practiced by the churches themselves), etc. publically <--- LOL
B) Denounce all sections of the Bible that are violent and sign an agreement that if such parts of their text are read at worship that they will donate the building to a charity that works with families of almost every single nation on Earth.

I was raised as a Christian, but these demands are ridiculous. It's a free country and not every terrorist is a Muslim.

 

[Industrialsize]

The facts I state aren't based on youtube videos or websites.
It's based on the damn Koran. I've read it.

The fact that these people ARE going out and killing people because their Koran tells them to is SCARY. We shouldn't just let them set up shop whenever they want.

Do you really think the people that want this Mosque would both:
A) Apologize and condemn the attacks of 9/11 publically
B) Denounce all sections of the Koran that are violent and sign an agreement that if such parts of their text are read at worship that they will donate the building to a charity that works with families of 9/11 victims.

???

And why would they need to apologize?..they are Muslims, not terrorists

 

[tigolbitties]

And why would they need to apologize?..they are Muslims, not terrorists

Why does Barrack need to constantly apologize for all the shit America did back in the day?

The fact remains that their book says they should murder people.

 

[Industrialsize]

Why does Barrack need to constantly apologize for all the shit America did back in the day?

The fact remains that their book says they should murder people.

Actually it doesn't:Here's a reading list for you:
A Message from the Council on American-Islamic Relations
American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks
American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism
American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11
Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack
Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say
Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say
British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism
British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders
Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses
Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say
Muslim Reactions to Sept 11
Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism - Part II - Statements by Organizations
Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.
Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks
New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism
Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism
Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say
Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism
Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings
U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks
UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe'
When is jihad OK? Muslim Perspectives

A Common Word Between Us and You, by 130 Islamic scholars
Attacks on Civilians: Forbidden by Islam, by Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi
Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah of Lebanon condemns Osama Bin Laden, by Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah
Bin Laden's Violence is a Heresy Against Islam, by AbdulHakim Murad (Tim Winter)
Defending the Civilians (a fatwa against terrorism), by Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti
Expert Says Islam Prohibits Violence Against Innocents, by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Condemns Suicide Bombings, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi
High Mufti of Russian Muslims calls for Extradition of Bin Laden, by Russian Muslim leaders
Iran's Supreme Leader Condemns Attacks on U.S., by Ayatollah Ali Khamanei
Islam and the Question of Violence, by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Iranian scholar
Jihad and the Modern World, by Dr. Sherman Jackson
Jihad: Its True Meaning and Purpose, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui
Most Prominent Sunni Muslim Scholar Condemns Killing of Civilians, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University
Muslim Attitudes about Violence, by Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part I - Fatwas, by various scholars
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part IV A few Quotes, by various scholars
On the Terrorist Attacks, by Imam Zaid Shakir
Prominent Pakistani Cleric Tahir ul Qadri condemns Bin Laden, by Tahir ul Qadri
Reclaiming Islam from the Terrorists, by AbdulHakim Murad, British scholar
Reflections on the National Horror of September 11, 2001, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui
Refutation of Bin Laden's Defense of Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar
Response to a Question about Islam and Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar
Saudi Clerics Condemn Terrorism, by Sheikh Abderrahman al-Sudayes
Saudi Grand Mufti Condemns Terrorist Attacks in U.S., by Shaikh Abdulaziz Al-Ashaikh
Scholars' Statements Regarding The Attacks In The United States, by Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Aali-Shaykh, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and President of the Committee of Senior Scholars, and Shaykh Saleh Al-Lehaydaan, Chief Justice Of The Saudi Arabian Judiciary, and Shaykh Dr. Saaleh Ibn Ghaanem As-Sadlaan, Pres. Higher Studies Dept. Al-Imaam Muhammd Ibn Saud Islamic University
Spanish Muslim Clerical authorities Issue Fatwa against Osamah Bin Laden, by Spanish Muslim leaders
Terrorism Is at Odds With Islamic Tradition, by Khaled Abou El Fadl
Terrorism: Not a doorway to heaven, by Jamil Abdul Razzak Hajoo, of Idriss Mosque, Seattle
The Myth of Islamic Terrorism Exploded, by Shaykh Abdul Azeez bin Abdullah bin Baaz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al Uthaymeen
The worst enemies of Islam are from within, by Hamza Yusuf
Top Saudi Cleric Says Attacks on U.S. a Terrible Crime in Islam, by Shaykh Salah al-Lahidan, head of the Islamic Judiciary of Saudi Arabia
Violence Against Innocents Violates Islamic Law, by Imam Siraj Wahhaj
What is jihad? What is terrorism?, by Statement by Muslim scholars

 

[tigolbitties]

Oh wow! Muslims deny that they're violent people!? OH! That changes everything!

Like they'd fucking admit it.

Why don't you stop reading their fucking statements and open their fucking evil book:
Check out al-Ma'idah 5:51, 47:4, Sura 9:5, Sura 2:193, Sura 9:123, Sura 6:152, just to get you started.