A new language for Europe

[2322]

I think it should be English. It will save Americans from having to learn another language beyond the 10 or so Spanish phrases they currently use to tell their housekeepers and lawn care people what to do.

 

[D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse]

jason_els writes:

I think it should be English. It will save Americans from having to learn another language beyond the 10 or so Spanish phrases they currently use to tell their housekeepers and lawn care people what to do.


--------------------

Jason, this is a very funny thought. However, as far as epigrams and bon mots go, that "10 or so Spanish phrases" is acutely observed, yet, all in all, the sentence falls a bit flat -- "what to do" needs a bit jazzing up to keep the energy of the reader high.

If I may act as intermediary, might I suggest you pass this post on to Nick8 for a quick Oscar Wildean type rewrite? Nick8 is known for his terse, concise, brusque, pithy, neatly constructed bon mots.

Always yours,

Will

 

[eurotop40]

Another view by Yves Duteil:

La langue de chez nous

C'est une langue belle avec des mots superbes
Qui porte son histoire à travers ses accents
Où l'on sent la musique et le parfum des herbes
Le fromage de chèvre et le pain de froment

Et du Mont-Saint-Michel jusqu'à la Contrescarpe
En écoutant parler les gens de ce pays
On dirait que le vent s'est pris dans une harpe
Et qu'il en a gardé toutes les harmonies

Dans cette langue belle aux couleurs de Provence
Où la saveur des choses est déjà dans les mots
C'est d'abord en parlant que la fete commence
Et l'on boit des paroles aussi bien que de l'eau

Les voix ressemblent aux cours des fleuves et des rivières
Elles répondent aux méandres, au vent dans les roseaux
Parfois meme aux torrents qui charrient du tonnerre
En polissant les pierres sur le bord des ruisseaux

C'est une langue belle à l'autre bout du monde
Une bulle de France au nord d'un continent
Sertie dans un étau mais pourtant si féconde
Enfermée dans les glaces au sommet d'un volcan

Elle a jeté des ponts par-dessus l'Atlantique
Elle a quitté son nid pour un autre terroir
Et comme une hirondelle au printemps des musiques
Elle revient nous chanter ses peines et ses espoirs

Nous dire que là-bas dans ce pays de neige
Elle a fait face aux vents qui soufflent de partout,
Pour imposer ses mots jusque dans les collèges
Et qu'on y parle encore la langue de chez nous

C'est une langue belle à qui sait la défendre
Elle offre les trésors de richesses infinies
Les mots qui nous manquaient pour pouvoir nous comprendre
Et la force qu'il faut pour vivre en harmonie

Et l'Île d'Orléans jusqu'à la Contrescarpe
En écoutant chanter les gens de ce pays
On dirait que le vent s'est pris dans une harpe
Et qu'il a composé toute une symphonie

Et de l'Île d'Orléans jusqu'à Contrescarpe
En écoutant chanter les gens de ce pays
On dirait que le vent s'est pris dans une harpe
Et qu'il a composé toute une symphonie.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

It's just a matter of numbers and which country you live in. Mandarin is spoken by more people in the world than any other language. English (and all its varieties) comes in second, but a far second.

If you are speaking of native speakers, this is true.
But if you're speaking of all those speakers who can get by quite nicely in either language, English may well have an edge, and certainly will carry you through daily life over a much greater part of the globe, as I'm sure you know, mlb.
But of course, I'm sure you did mean native speakers.

 

[midlifebear]

The Normans who themselves were actually Danes - I believe - who adopted French as their language. There must have still been a fascination for romanic languages by all these germanic tribes such as the Longobards who moved to Italy in the 6th century and also dropped their original germanic dialect.

You're probably on to something. My memory of pre 20th Century European History has almost completely evaporated. Still, whether or not the Normans were a part of the Danes is sort of moot. The official language of the Normans was their particular version of French. Which leads me to a nagging question that neither of my nieces could sufficiently answer.

Their mother was born in Hamburg in 1940 and her family (three sisters, two brothers and the parents) left Germany in a New York minute once they found mormon sponsors in Salt Lake City who could support them in the USA. So, my nieces both grew up speaking German at home and English at school. And both moved to Switzerland at 20 years-old until the smart one moved to Tokyo and has achieved a economic level of living that far out strips anything I could ever aspire to thanks to her husband's family being an old Japanese banking family.

But I digress far too much.

What, if any, is the distinction between Deutch (or is it deutsch? sorry about that) and Suisse Deut(s)ch? It seems that both my nieces speak relatively decent German, but when I attempt to elicit responses in French from either of them they claim they cannot understand me. I believe it's a ruse on their part, because I never have a problem communicating effectively in French when I have to travel to Paris, Burgundy, Le Provence, etc.

Is the strange dialect spoken by most Swiss just German with a French accent? Or is it, as you have sort of alluded, simply German invaded by a lots and lots of French words. Note: I avoided the term "cognates."

Inquiring minds want to know. I trust your opinion over that of Wikipedia.

 

[D_Cleon W Ballbreath IV]

question for those who are more enlightened than I, are there other languages that have incorporated vocabulary from other languages as much as English has? Off the top of my head it seems French words have been the most actively adopted.

It happened all over the place:
Arabic vocabulary entered Turkish, Farsi, Urdu
Chinese vocabulary entered Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese
The list is long, and the process continues.

 

[midlifebear]

If you are speaking of native speakers, this is true.
But if you're speaking of all those speakers who can get by quite nicely in either language, English may well have an edge, and certainly will carry you through daily life over a much greater part of the globe, as I'm sure you know, mlb.
But of course, I'm sure you did mean native speakers.

Yeah, I meant native speakers. But I'm one of those odd types who finds Castellano (Spanish) and all its variations easier and more comfortable to speak than the English expected of me since birth. For some reason Spanish is like comfortable, well-worn shoes. I'm not certain why. Of course, imagine how popular this makes me among Mexican/Americans in the West who speak both languages seamlessly, but reserve Spanish only for those who do not appear to be Gabachos (es una lástima, pero soy Gabacho). They take such great offense that I force them to speak with me in their Spanish dialect when ordering at a restaurant or doing business at a Wells Fargo bank. After all, they have been speaking in Spanish among themselves about me before approaching me to dispense service.

As for you Quebecers, I love feigning that I do not understand Quebecois or English when ordering breakfast at a Westin or Hilton in Montreal. I´m real good at flustering about in Spanish and pointing at a menu without photos or illustrations. It irritates the waiters and waitresses so much I'm certain they have headaches the rest of the day. But it's great FUN!:biggrin1: After all, how hard is it to decipher pan tostado? :biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

...I'm one of those odd types who finds Castellano (Spanish) and all its variations easier and more comfortable to speak than the English expected of me since birth. For some reason Spanish is like comfortable, well-worn shoes. I'm not certain why.

At what age did you start learning Spanish?

As for you Quebecers ...

Actually, I'm in Ontario, and Quebec is five minutes away ...

...I love feigning that I do not understand Quebecois or English when ordering breakfast at a Westin or Hilton in Montreal. I´m real good at flustering about in Spanish and pointing at a menu without photos or illustrations. It irritates the waiters and waitresses so much I'm certain they have headaches the rest of the day.

Tabarnak!!!
Câlice!!!!
Cinq six boîtes de tomates vartes!!

 

[eurotop40]

What, if any, is the distinction between Deutch (or is it deutsch? sorry about that) and Suisse Deut(s)ch?

Is the strange dialect spoken by most Swiss just German with a French accent? Or is it, as you have sort of alluded, simply German invaded by a lots and lots of French words. Note: I avoided the term "cognates."

Inquiring minds want to know. I trust your opinion over that of Wikipedia.

Swiss German dialects (they are not really homogeneous, although 90% mutually intelligible) are so-called Alemannic dialects, i.e. the language spoken by the Alemannic tribes that settled in the area of Switzerland, Alsace and South-West Germany. This is an older version of German that did not have the great vocalic shift that happened to German and English over the centuries. By far it is not German spoken with a french accent, although there is a loan of French words ("merci" for "danke", "jus" for "saft", etc.). In general, (Swiss) German speaking Swiss really consider spoken standard German as a foreign language and some are not even really fluent in it in spite of writing standard German. When speaking standard German the Swiss have a strong accent and Germans think that THAT is Swiss German.
Examples of words roughly in Zurich version (Swiss - German - English):
Füür - Feuer - fire
Huus - Haus - house
chly - klein - small
Chuchi - Küche - kitchen
Chüssi - Kissen - cushion
luege - gucken - to look
Buech - Buch - book
gärn haa - lieben - to love
etc... ("ch" spoken as fricative, that is that terrible guttural sound you also have in Hebrew and that is accurately eliminated from all Israeli songs for the European Song Contest in order not to scare listeners from other countries).

 

[JustAsking]

...
Tabarnak!!!
Câlice!!!!
Cinq six boîtes de tomates vartes!!

Haha, yes. Sti' Tabarnak!

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Haha, yes. Sti' Tabarnak!

JA, I have a feeling that even when the angels are coming for you, you'll still be able to swear like a Québécois lumberjack.:biggrin1::tongue:

 

[midlifebear]

At what age did you start learning Spanish?

Mi abuela was appropriated from somewhere outside of Monterrey, MX, and passed on up into Pleasant Grove, Ewetaw to be raised as a "Laminite child" by rencent Welsh converts to the mormon church (circa 1890).Basically, she was adopted to be a house-slave, although that strange cultish religion insists that the people of Central 'Mericuh are one of the lost tribes of Israel (hence the invented name of Laminite). Trouble is, no mormon ever asked any Central Americans if they held the same belief.

So, I always heard northern Spanish, but didn't start speaking it until I entered the 6th grade where we were exposed to 15 minutes of conversation every day. By the 7th grade, most of us could understand and actually respond in any one of the four subjunctives. I took a beginning Spanish class my first year of university only to work on getting rid of bad grammar spoken by los nortenos de Sonora, Chihuahua, and Baja. After that it was if I was born understanding the language; not unlike how Golden Retrievers are born understanding complete English sentences.

But before I could speak Spanish, much to my parent's chagrin I came home to my parent's farm house every day until I was 12 speaking Japanese, because all of my playmates were kids from the Japanese farming families who surrounded us. I can still hold my own in a Japanese restaurant.

Actually, I'm in Ontario, and Quebec is five minutes away ...

Ah, oui, je me souviens. Pero disculpeme, I did know that fact about you, but forgot. Still, you're geographically close enough for Jazz.


Tabarnak!!!
Câlice!!!!
Cinq six boîtes de tomates vartes!![/QUOTE]

We really need to meet for a long lunch that starts with a couple of bottles of Pinot Noir, may include a pinot grigio, and ends with at least one over-iced bottle of Freixnet Cava (extra dry, it's the official cava of my adopted home and is especially good when poured from about one meter above the glass).

Notice that in all of my posts I've never said anything bad about French Canadians? Just the French. I really like French Canadians. I also like French men (sorry, keep the women at home). Used to have a handsome IBM office equipment salesman from Quebec who kept me in IBM Selectrics (I tended to break them). He was a great salesman and except for his wife and six kids, he was an exceptionally good fuck. Also have a long-time boyfriend that the SLC first hockey team had imported from Quebec. I never tired of his almost blue/black hair and alabaster skin. Nice cheekbones, too. But he ended up being traded to play for the BC Canuckers. Oh, where are yea now, Etienne?

BTW: I watched David Letteman this morning via satellite. He mentioned in his monologue tht McDonalds opening a fast food franchise in the Lourve? It has to be a joke. But one of his better observtions was that instead of a "kids meal" they would offer an "ennui meal" for toddlers that consisted of just small pack of Gitanes.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Mi abuela was appropriated from somewhere outside of Monterrey, MX, and passed on up into Pleasant Grove, Ewetaw to be raised as a "Laminite child" by rencent Welsh converts to the mormon church (circa 1890).Basically, she was adopted to be a house-slave, although that strange cultish religion insists that the people of Central 'Mericuh are one of the lost tribes of Israel (hence the invented name of Laminite). Trouble is, no mormon ever asked any Central Americans if they held the same belief.

So, I always heard northern Spanish ...

Well, I'm guessing that that gave you an ear far more acutely tuned to the sound system than you would have otherwise, and maybe a far more intuitive command of basic grammar than you would have if you had started to hammer things in much later.
(I'm originally from Southern Alberta, btw, so grew up, as I believe I've mentioned to you, surrounded by a lot of Mormon folk. You clearly never 'took' ... and that's .... a good thing.)

... but didn't start speaking it until I entered the 6th grade where we were exposed to 15 minutes of conversation every day. By the 7th grade, most of us could understand and actually respond in any one of the four subjunctives.

So things were developed further before puberty (or are you one of them peeps who started puberty at age eight? ... somehow seems not implausible ... in fact, almost predictable).

I took a beginning Spanish class my first year of university only to work on getting rid of bad grammar spoken by los nortenos de Sonora, Chihuahua, and Baja. After that it was if I was born understanding the language; not unlike how Golden Retrievers are born understanding complete English sentences.

Ah, the Golden Retriever Gift ... you are a lucky man, mlb.

But before I could speak Spanish, much to my parent's chagrin I came home to my parent's farm house every day until I was 12 speaking Japanese, because all of my playmates were kids from the Japanese farming families who surrounded us. I can still hold my own in a Japanese restaurant.

Funny. I, too, was surrounded by quite a few Japanese ... progeny of the many hundreds of Japanese who settled in southern Alberta after the closing of the Second World War internment camps in British Columbia, a horrific shame in Canadian history.
My two best friends were a pair of Japanese brothers. There was still some Japanese spoken in the home, but the only word I learned was [forgive my phonetics] bukka, which meant stupid. (Their mother was, um, colorful ... and a firm believer in tough love.)

We really need to meet for a long lunch that starts with a couple of bottles of Pinot Noir, may include a pinot grigio, and ends with at least one over-iced bottle of Freixnet Cava (extra dry, it's the official cava of my adopted home and is especially good when poured from about one meter above the glass).

That would be a delight.
I assume the virtuosic pouring comes with the earlier libations.
In any case, Rubi is game.
Count on it, chum.

 

[2322]

Jason, this is a very funny thought. However, as far as epigrams and bon mots go, that "10 or so Spanish phrases" is acutely observed, yet, all in all, the sentence falls a bit flat -- "what to do" needs a bit jazzing up to keep the energy of the reader high.

If I may act as intermediary, might I suggest you pass this post on to Nick8 for a quick Oscar Wildean type rewrite? Nick8 is known for his terse, concise, brusque, pithy, neatly constructed bon mots.

Always yours,

Will

I'd follow your advice if you were a better writer than I.

 

[earllogjam]

What ever happened to Esperonto?

esperanto language - Google Videos

 

[D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse]

touché, jason!

 

[2322]

What ever happened to Esperonto?

esperanto language - Google Videos

I think it's alive and well living in Brasilia, that model of human-scale architecture and ease of transportation.

 

[2322]

Esperanto always struck me as the Gogie of languages... I can see the poster now [cue theremin]:

ESPERANTO! The language of TOMORROW!
​

With a streamlined silver rocket ship and artistically woven contrail encircling it.

Yes.... Esperanto! The language your children will be speaking when they colonize Mars. Esperanto is an easy, sensible language which will unite the world in happy middle class American consumerist democracy. Learn Esperanto today!

 

[B_Nick8]

I'd follow your advice if you were a better writer than I.

Don't take it personally, Jase. When Will gives a kiss, it's just as likely to be a kick in the ass as well.

Yo boy, awhora.

 

[2322]

Don't take it personally, Jase. When Will gives a kiss, it's just as likely to be a kick in the ass as well.

Yo boy, awhora.

Not worried. I have no desire to be kicked in the ass or kissed by Willtom27.