A new language for Europe

[B_Nick8]

Not worried. I have no desire to be kicked in the ass or kissed by Willtom27.

Ah. Then apparently you haven't been paying attention. Because I would, and I have, accepted both. With all requisite appreciation.

 

[jason_els]

Ah. Then apparently you haven't been paying attention. Because I would, and I have, accepted both. With all requisite appreciation.

Of that, I am more than abundantly aware.

 

[B_Nick4444]

I am not a "professional" linguist, nor do I pretend to have taht level of mastery

but it was a and remains an area of interest

I would interpose the thought here that this (a common language) is not something to aimed for

Different languages result in different cognitive patterns; it has been posited, for example, that German pre-eminence in science and philosophy can be attributed to the synthesizing capabilities of that language

likewise, because of the emotive aspects of languages like Spanish and nipponese, one who was truly bi-lingual in, say English (an analytical language under the typology I was looking at) and either Spanish or nipponese, would have demonstrably greater scientific thinking capabilities, something that was never quite clear to me as to why, when I was reading those propositions

 

[dong20]

...

I would interpose the thought here that this (a common language) is not something to aimed for

Different languages result in different cognitive patterns; it has been posited, for example, that German pre-eminence in science and philosophy can be attributed to the synthesizing capabilities of that language

likewise, because of the emotive aspects of languages like Spanish and nipponese, one who was truly bi-lingual in, say English (an analytical language under the typology I was looking at) and either Spanish or nipponese, would have demonstrably greater scientific thinking capabilities, something that was never quite clear to me as to why, when I was reading those propositions

What??

Certainly German has (had) a 'tradition' as a (the?) 'scientific language', and I'm sure there's evidence that cognition and liguistic form/function are related, as I'm sure there's evidence they're not.

Still, truth be told I imagine there's something in the notion, even if it's primarily cultural as opposed to biological in origin or perhaps merely a side effect.

Also, Nipponese isn't a language in itself, it's a cultural reference. In any event, right or wrong, Boroditsky would love ya for the plug - at least it sounds like her line of thinking.:smile:

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of some of the more ridiculous English spellings, or I should say altering them to make them more phonetic. Everyone would get used to it.

Languages change really slowly. The double consonant thing has pretty much gone away here in the States; but it has been over the course of my lifetime. It seems like doubles are still used though where elimination may have the effect of changing pronunciation. Examples: traveling for travelling, but not commiting for committing. (The double consonant is supposed to make the pronunciation of the vowel short.) So just introduced less uniformity, not more. :frown2:

 

[midlifebear]

[eurotop40: Thanks for the info on German Swiss accents. Most enlightening.

Jason_Els: About those 10 Spanish phrases: When I first met The Squeeze the first thing he tried to teach me was to say "No hay problema." (There is no problem.) because one of his greatest irritations was to hear Anglos say "No problema" or more often "No problemo." He failed to notice that I already said "No hay problema," assuming that I didn't just because I'm a Gabacho. Then one day he realized, despite the lazy Gabacho accent I succumb to when tired, that I usually speak with a clear and distinct Iberian accent -- sort of like an 'Mericuhn trying to speak with a formal British accent. Quite posh.

When he moved to Barcelona with me I was amazed and very amused to hear him immediately lose his porteño accent. Prior to our move, he insisted he could not understand me and that "¡Hablas como un indio!" (You speak like an Indian!) The reality was (and still often is) that I speak Castellano better than he does. Anyone who has spent any time with Argentines, especially those who proudly claim to be porteño -- someone living within the confines of the autopistas that define the Capital Federal -- knows that Argentines speak a dialect of Spanish that is almost its own separate language. It's even more distinct in Uruguay. And compared to the rest of the Spanish-speaking world it is called Rioplatense. What one hears on the streets of Buenos Aires is a fusion of a lot of Italian and English mixed with a dialect of Spanish where the familiar/singular "tu" is never used. And it is all inflected/accented as if it were Italian. In addition, everyone uses the familiar/plural "vos." In the rest of South and Central American countries and Mexico the use of tu is always used and it's a rare moment to hear anyone use the voseo at all. Even Spaniards tend to quickly eliminate using the "voseo" when traveling in Mexico and Central America.

There are other major distinctions that makes Argentine Spanish completely different than where Spanish it is spoken in any other country as the primary language. For example, all y sounds as in "ayer", "llamas", and "ellos" are changed to azsher, zhsamas, and ezshos, repectively. And then there is the habit of most Argentines to use Lunfardo, a parallel set of words and idiomatic phrases that began with the "prisoner" class of Argentines, but now everybody (including their grandmothers) thinks its just great to mix Lundfardo in everyday conversation. Twenty years ago this was considered a sign of a poor education. But not these days. Whenever I run into an Anglo who has moved to Buenos Aires for six months to learn Spanish I just shake my head, because they're are in for a big surprise if they try to use what they learn in Buenos Aires anywhere else in the world. So, whenever The Squeeze wants to confuse me or talk with his porteño friends and eliminate me from knowing what is going on he reverts to his thick Rioplatense accent and incorporates as much Lunfardo as possible.

But about that list of 10 phrases one should learn in Spanish (or any other language); one day The Squeeze reluctantly asked me if I could help him learn English. I told him that I would be happy to and in less than three weeks had him memorize the following partial list of sentences:

• "I am visiting your country to take photos of government military installations." "My country is home to a secret UFO base." "Bad luck will follow you unless you give me a Dollar." "You are the whitest person I've ever seen. Are you ill?" "You're not fat. Are you certain you are an American?" "I would like to smell your underwear."

It took him several months until he realized I had screwed him over.

It was a cruel joke, but he still loves me. However, I doubt he'll ever attempt to learn English again, which is no great loss. In the last 9 years he's become incredibly fluent in French and now corrects bad errors I tend to make in French.

 

[Bbucko]

I learned two key phrases in Spanish for a solo trip I took to Barcelona and Sitges in 1990:

Culito cerrado;

and

No esta mi culpa que te me quieres.

Aside from my deplorable Miss Piggy Spanish learned a la cama (nouns and adjectives, mostly), I can communicate sufficiently in Spanish to do the three things I always do in Spanish-speaking places: Buy shoes; order food in a decent restaurant; and pick up men in bars.

What more could I possibly need to say?

 

[midlifebear]

Bbucko, you've hit upon the right set of subjects to master. However, it is a sad thing -- or too bad (Es una lástima) that your little ass is closed. And depending upon the vibes you may be broadcasting, you just might be guilty of someone liking you (very much). When someone comes on to me and says they want to fuck me I prefer to say "Mi culo no funciona/o)"

But I would agree that if you can buy shoes, order a good meal, and pick up men, whether in a bar or not, those are the three best subjects we should all understand in any language. Unfortunately, I also know enough Russian, Czech, and Japanese to get into a fight. My bad.

 

[eurotop40]

What??

Certainly German has (had) a 'tradition' as a (the?) 'scientific language', and I'm sure there's evidence that cognition and liguistic form/function are related, as I'm sure there's evidence they're not.

...

I am not sure. I would say "as the technical or the engineering language".

 

[JustAsking]

Two phrases I find important to know in the native language when traveling.

1) My hotel room is on fire.
2) Are those persons lepers?

You can't get by without these.

 

[B_Nick4444]

don't think it was [SIZE=-1][SIZE=+3][SIZE=+1][SIZE=-1]Boroditsky it was recalling, but I'm actually impressed you knew her work

and, BTW, I do think language both enables and constrains conceptualization

As Tennyson would put it:

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]I sometimes hold it half a sin
To put in words the grief I feel;
For words, like Nature, half reveal
And half conceal the Soul within.

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=+3][SIZE=+1][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=+3][SIZE=+1][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

What??

Certainly German has (had) a 'tradition' as a (the?) 'scientific language', and I'm sure there's evidence that cognition and liguistic form/function are related, as I'm sure there's evidence they're not.

Still, truth be told I imagine there's something in the notion, even if it's primarily cultural as opposed to biological in origin or perhaps merely a side effect.

Also, Nipponese isn't a language in itself, it's a cultural reference. In any event, right or wrong, Boroditsky would love ya for the plug - at least it sounds like her line of thinking.:smile:

 

[Drifterwood]

Two phrases I find important to know in the native language when traveling.

1) My hotel room is on fire.
2) Are those persons lepers?

You can't get by without these.

Add this one, JA.

Woo boo kuh-ee chih jun guh.

 

[midlifebear]

don't think it was [SIZE=-1][SIZE=+3][SIZE=+1][SIZE=-1]Boroditsky it was recalling, but I'm actually impressed you knew her work

and, BTW, I do think language both enables and constrains conceptualization

As Tennyson would put it:

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]I sometimes hold it half a sin
To put in words the grief I feel;
For words, like Nature, half reveal
And half conceal the Soul within.

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=+3][SIZE=+1][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=+3][SIZE=+1][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

Quite frankly, Nicky o da Sixes, I'm certain that plain old-fashioned reality -- verbalized or not -- tends to constrain your particular ability to conceptualize anything at all, especially your navel.

 

[B_Nick4444]

you get me all hard when you talk like that -- kick me, whip me, call me a cheap whore ...

 

[midlifebear]

You cheap whore! Now, peel me a grape!

 

[jason_els]

Thank you for that mlb! If I knew anything other than, "Ista est mi casa," I might have understood more. Like every other poor sap, I took French. It just sounded better to me than Spanish plus my mother majored in French and I thought she might be able to help me learn it. No such luck. Ah well.