A President's Speech & The Answer

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Trinity, Aug 28, 2008.

  1. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    The answer was the Clinton/Obama ticket. Hillary Clinton had half the votes, Obama the other half. Both were historic candidacies that refused to be denied. Hillary Clinton was clearly the more senior, the more qualified, the more experienced candidate while Obama had qualities of likeability, freshness and the ever present message of hope and change.

    Obama could have been President after cutting his teeth as VP. The Obama/Clinton ticket while capitalizing on all those points above to achieve a win...just made no sense when the top of the ticket of Celebrity would be balanced by Hillary Clinton on the bottom of the ticket: what a President should be.

    This is why Biden is not the right choice. Of course Biden was the best VP choice on paper if you are Obama and refuse to select Hillary Clinton. The point is...Biden isn't going to be President. All of Biden's valuable assets: tested by the tragic death of his wife and child, catholic middle class values, strong on experience, National Security qualifications...those are things about Joe Biden. Not Barack Obama. And just like when Obama mentioned his family members who served in the military, that has very little to do with Barack Obama’s own experience or service in anything.

    Barack Obama wants to be President. Over and over Obama requires KingMakers to make him something that he is not...to fill in where he is lacking. President Clinton and Sen. Hillary Clinton have to qualify Barack Obama and campaign for him unceasingly because he is the weakest candidate for President in history. Nobody in his or her right mind believed Bill Clinton last night. Obama supporters either...they won't say it because they are completely sold but deep down they didn’t believe a word either. Even in the Obama Surrogate MainStream Media the articles on the speech are pathetic and few in number! LOL. Nobody even remotely believed that swill. What is interesting is that the bullies who wanted Hillary to lose, Obama to win and the Clinton's to secure Obama’s win while dropping dead on their way out, actually in their Obama insanity say the speech was Bill Clinton’s redemption. LOL

    I'll tell you what President Bill Clinton did. Bill Clinton is a master. It was brilliant. Bill Clinton gave the "But Brutus is an Honorable Man" speech…but Pres. Clinton utilized the irony technique in a new way that will go down in history.

    Everything Pres. Clinton said was exactly opposite of what he meant...but he added a twist to it. By showing he is the Senior Statesman, by saying "I've been where you want to go Barack, I've actually done what you say you want to do --- I am the man...you want to be."

    It was in Every Line that President Bill Clinton forcefully spoke that said:

    Barack Obama is ready...Barack Obama will work...Barack Obama will not allow...Barack Obama knows...

    Each one of those statements harken to the scene from the play A Raisin in the Sun when Lena the Matriarch of the family, the one with wisdom, honor and strength states to the audience that Walter is about to do something that neither she nor the audience has the slightest belief Walter is capable of doing. Walter is her misguided son who has done nothing to deserve the trust she is vouching for but her full-throated defense of family comes from a strong and prideful tradition of what others have achieved and sacrificed.

    Oh Yes, Bill Clinton took it there. It was the Big Chief talking directly to a young wanna-be who takes the short cuts and earns no respect and who has yet to even make it to Warrior. Pres. Clinton’s speech even had a tinge of ridiculousness because the very statements were so contradictory to everything the Clintons have said before.

    But that is not the Clintons’ fault. It is actually what the Obama Party and much of the Surrogate for Obama Mainstream Media stupidly demanded President Clinton and Sen. Clinton do....sadly it will be Obama's undoing.

    Why you ask? After Bill Clinton’s “Barack is an honorable man speech” finally solidifying that Obama lacks everything necessary to be President…His main competitor gave a speech that demonstrated she should have won, his VP selection is a more qualified candidate and was selected for just that purpose, and the former President in your party gives you a dressing down and you don’t even recognize it.


    It’s Two Reason’s really. Obama's first mistake was hypocritically not winning fair and square. Yes, Obama pimped the caucus system and came out ahead however; he did not beat Hillary Clinton that way. Obama had a slight lead but he did not WIN. Obama needed superdelegates to win and in order to secure victory, the Democratic leadership used undemocratic actions in the way of a farce of a RBC meeting in the DNC where election results were fabricated and states were not allowed to receive full votes. The way in which this was handled actually held momentum as well pushing the delegate count one way or the other. Obama removing his own name from the Michigan Ballot and then receiving votes he did earn in his name (Uncommitted by DNC rules cannot be given to another candidate), and then delegates Obama did not earn (fabricated election results for Michigan), ruined the credibility of the Democratic Party, destroyed the validity of the Primary and gave Obama the weakest kind of victory. This type of victory has no honor. Obama hypocritically allowed full votes to the delegations of Michigan and Florida when Obama’s primary victory was no longer in jeopardy but when he needs the future votes of those states.

    Secondly, Obama didn't demand a full roll call for the Nomination...He ran from a fight like a punk and refused to demonstrate his validity as the undisputed Democratic Nominee. If he cannot win his party's nomination fair and square when there was the tightest primary race in history, then he does not deserve the Office of President. The Democrats present fake unity behind a propped up picture of weakness.

    The Democratic Convention Celebration as they nominated Obama in Acclamation reminded me of the Party they had when the Democrats announced Mondale to replace Senator Wellstone who died in a plane crash. The balance of power in the senate was pivotal. The Democrats needed a win and so sure they found their man in Mondale…It was a huge Celebration…Party Party Party. Until, Mondale lost.
     
  2. Penis Aficionado

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    You are a sore loser.
     
  3. marleyisalegend

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    Just when you thought it was safe....
     
  4. Phil Ayesho

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    So the republicans must have some kind of Spider that crawls thru the internet, signs up for forums and posts these inane spin-fests.


    Or there are a legion of Republican hacks out there who have been asked by their party Imam to make like disgruntled democrats everywhere they can.


    The spreading of this kind of manipulative shit is really becoming rather odious.


    Just more reasons to hate and eschew the republican party.


    Oh... and Hillary is the more experienced... but so what... I don't need another 4 years of rabid republican Clinton bashing...
     
  5. Principessa

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    What is with you rabid, Sisters of the Traveling Pantsuits? :confused:

    I re-iterate: A true Democrat votes the party line no matter what. You whiney, pantsuit wearing, Gloria Steinem wannabes who have jumped ship to the Mc Cain side are a disgrace to the Democratic Party. Whatever happend to taking one for the team.

    At risk of sounding like a complete geekette I think this Spock quote is appropriate here.
    The final words spoken by Mr. Spock (Leonard Nimoy) before he died from radiation exposure in the movie Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982). Acting on the logical philosophy "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" Spock rescued the crew of the Starship Enterprise from certain death, when he entered a warp engine chamber (flooded with radiation) to repair the damaged segment that would give the ship the power it needed to escape an apocalyptic explosion from the Project Genesis bomb. His exact last words to Captain Kirk (William Shatner) were: "I have and will always be...your friend. Live long and prosper."

    Stop being sour grapes because your favored candidate lost the nomination with her mudslinging and dirty pool. I wouldn't have picked a backstabbing B like her for VP either. :cool:

    If you think Mc Cain is going to be good for anybody you are sadly mistaken!
     
    #5 Principessa, Aug 28, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  6. transformer_99

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    Good points, but in the absence of a rout, Obama had more popular votes and more delegates. Whether the delegates and super delegates would've taken him past the mark for a clear victory in all ways of looking at it is an unknown. But after the Gore fiasco, I'm a proponent of the popular vote. Obama was ahead and finished strong on popular vote. There was the string of 11 consecutive victories and HRC made her comeback attempt. It wasn't enough and she racked up personal debt to lose. There's desperation for you.

    Anyway you slice it, it's Obama vs McCain.
     
  7. SilverTrain

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    Yawn.
     
  8. Phil Ayesho

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    they are NOT democrats...
    These folks getting a lot of air time on FOX and CNN are republican MOLES trying to divide democratic votes to give McCain a chance.

    If Hillary had got the nomination, they would have ponied up a bunch of secretly republican blacks to whine about racism....

    Its just another underhanded tactic dreamed up by Karl Rove... the biggest steaming scheming turd on the face of the earth.
     
  9. transformer_99

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    That remains to be seen, Rove was the difference between it being Bush instead of McCain 8 years ago. Who can speculate whether McCain or Bush would've been better or worse. Much like McCain, Obama or even HRC today. It all boils down to "hope and change" as the battle cry of the democrats. What a crock of bs. As brutal as it is, the naked truth is that it comes down to whether the majority of the US population, whose incomes didn't pace inflation are ever going to have a chance at making it as comfortably as a lot of our parents did/have. And in that respect, I haven't heard either say much more than how they're going to put a bandaid on an amputation.

    I'm not a fan of style points for politicians. Each one of them will kiss your baby and tell you what you want to hear. I really don't give a damn about how their careers turn out, each of us should be more concerned with our own. So all this "hope and change", they need to save it for someone that still believes in our politicians. I want to hear the plan, the committment. Put the budget out there for each of us to know we're going to be better off in 4 years and that will continue for everyone across the board that makes the effort to play by the rules.
     
  10. Domisoldo

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    How amusingly un-Phil-ish of you to lose your otherwise cool, almost-too-rational head over puny politics.

    I suspect you know that the obsolete and simplistic platforms offered by both parties can't begin to grasp the ridiculous complexity of our nation's problems.

    Interestingly, you've been quite vocal in other threads about religion's grip on public policy.

    So far, it seems to me that it is McCain who has been the most discreet about his personal faith, "evil" Republican or not.

    Yes, he tried to appease the Dark Ages Bigot Club, against his better instinct, but didn't Obama meet with them too?
     
    #10 Domisoldo, Aug 28, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  11. gymfresh

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    Oy veh. What is it with these Democrats who just won't accept reality? Is Hillary obviously the better choice? Her followers remind me frighteningly of the Ellen Jamesians from The World According to Garp, the insane feminists who all cut out their own tongues (and thus their ability to speak, for life) in recognition of a girl who was raped and had her tongue cut out -- and who happens to think her fans are dangerous nuts. I'm just waiting to see what cuckoo ways the Hillarites will martyr themselves in support of their saint -- pray they don't take the rest of the country down with them.

    In my mind, Hillary is nothing more than another Dianne Feinstein RepubliCrat with so-so judgment.

    Barack Obama seems to me one of those rare candidates who comes along maybe twice in a century, someone with extraordinary brains and natural, calm good sense who has more innate solid judgment in his pinky than George Bush or John McCain do in their whole bodies (and probably more sound thinking in his elbow than Hillary has in her head).

    He is an exciting candidate and we're a blessed country that he has chosen to apply his vast talent to public service -- especially at this demanding level. Unlike Hillary, Obama is a true progressive who also understands markets and people. It doesn't hurt my opinion that he taught at my law school for quite a while, too, and I'm biased in favor of anyone who is smart enough to study or teach there.

    In sum: He's a natural. She ain't. We dodged that bullet.
     
  12. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    I simply disagree with you. If the Party is wrong...if the Party strays from its democratic principles...if the Party adopts policies I disagree with... I don't believe that voters should be voting party line no matter what. And a Democrat can be wrong just as much as a Republican. Democrats hold the majority in Congress and Congress makes the laws. Congress has a lower approval rating than Bush. Obama voted for FISA. Obama voted for Cheney's Energy Plan when McCain voted against it. Biden, Kennendy, Kerry, Clinton voted for the war. Biden voted against the surge.

    I don't agree with your other comments either.
     
  13. Domisoldo

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    Conversely, a registered Republican should not feel compelled to vote for any GOP-brand candidate. The GOP has betrayed many of its very own principles (some good).

    It is completely logical as well as ethical for a registered Republican to vote for a Democratic candidate who, say, favors fiscal responsibility if a conservative fiscal policy is what attracted him or her to the GOP to begin with.
     
  14. ledroit

    ledroit New Member

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    Buddy, sit back and enjoy the ride. It's going to be a hell of a lot more fun than you think.
     
  15. JustAsking

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    This convention is the one to beat next week and four and eight years from now. This convention was masterful.
     
  16. MovingForward

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    Maybe I am mistaken but I though Hilary and Obama's platform was pretty much the same. Hence if Hilary was right, then Obama was right and the Democratic party was right.
     
  17. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    I was addressing in general terms her blanket statement that true Democrats have to vote Party line no matter what. Specifically, I'm a Democrat and agree more with a Democratic Platform than any other. However, that does not mean I must always support the Party or its Nominee.

    Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are both Democrats so they do have similar platforms. The Primary was so hard fought because they are not one in the same, they don't have the exactly the same positions on every issue and they don't have the same judgment, qualifications, experience or records.

    A Democrat choosing between two Democrats will look at the few issue differences and the qualifications of the candidates to be the Best President. I agreed with Hillary Clinton's position on women's reproductive rights and trusted her record on the issue, I agreed with her Health Plan, I know her record on issues and what she has achieved throughout her life, I trusted her judgment on civil rights, national security, issues like FISA, gun control-- some of these issues where Obama has faltered. Obama has been running for president since he went to the IL Legislature. And has made contradictions on issues, changed his position on issues, skipped votes or voted present on issues. I don't trust what he will do on issues if elected.

    The reason I do not support the Party's Candidate is twofold. I feel the Democratic Party candidate is not the best candidate for President and Obama is not qualified. And because the Democratic Party acted undemocratically in the nomination process which left this weak candidate with no validity for support because the process did not seem right.
     
  18. Shelby

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    This is so classically typical grade school. My kid's you to use it when they were little every time one of their teams got beat.

    "But Dad, they cheated."

    Anyway, once again, welcome to the GOP!
     
  19. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Don't try petty insults about your children with me. Election Reform is an important issue to some people.

    As I stated before and proved with the Primary vs. Caucus Report (html,pdf), the Nominating Process was unfair and arcane. From the way Democratic Party handled sanctions and the primary calendar, to the RBC Committee Meeting to allocation of delegates, to SuperDelegates, to match up of the Rep. Winner take all to the Dem. Proportional Allocation...the process was undemocratic.

    Gov. Ed Rendell who supported Clinton and transferred his support to Obama, attempted to woo Clinton supportors and acknowledged the issues with the process himself:

    One last point – HOUND is not anti-PUMA. We agree with many of your grievances. For example, we, too, believe that the Democratic Party’s nominating process is unfair and undemocratic. We must change the policy where some votes are more important than others and some areas receive more delegates than their number of voters would justify – it violates the spirit of “one person, one vote.” We must eliminate caucuses that are inherently undemocratic and disenfranchise seniors (no absentee voting for those who can’t go to the polls), shift workers and our military. Forcing people to declare their preference in public also violates another cherished principle that undermines our democracy.

    Here is a response from Disaffected Voters:
    It’s simple; if Obama were to reform the nominating process it would be admittance that his own flimsy nomination was not truly legitimate. It confirms that he was not the choice of the voters and that the caucus and delegate apportionment systems are unfair.
    If anyone believes for a second that voting for Senator Obama will in any way ensure that the Democratic Nominating process will be reformed in any substantive or fair way, they are fooling themselves. How can we hope to change a system by annointing the very people who benefited the most from it and stand to lose the most by rejecting and reforming it?
    Voting for Senator Obama ensures that the people who orchestrated this disaster gain power they are seeking and retain it.
    And they were right. Despite Rendell's pledge, Obama failed to have reform of the Nominating System including the Caucus System included in the DNC platform.
     
  20. D_Davy_Downspout

    D_Davy_Downspout Account Disabled

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    This is rich. Hillary voted for those votes to count for NOTHING in 2007, left her name on the ballot for a meaningless PR victory of running unopposed, and then completely reversed and wanted them counted as FULL votes when it would help her. And you're counting Obama as a hypocrite? Amazing!

    Also, he would have won the nomination without those votes. This is a mathematical fact that you can research.

    He did win it fair, that's why he was called nominee by acclamation. Hillary is the one who asked for it to be called like that, if you remember. Nor was this the closest primary race in history, there have been some so close they had to be decided at convention.

    I see how two completely different events are so much alike. Wait, no I don't.
     
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