A President's Speech & The Answer

[D_Davy_Downspout]

its interesting that you paint McCain as some kind of evil dictator. He voted across party lines all the time, and had as strong a history of bipartisanship as any senator.

Its not that 5 1/2 years in POW camp qualifies you for president, but I believe that it qualifies him as someone who loves his country. In fact, he challenged the Bush Administration relentlessly on a number of issues, and frankly he doesn't give a damn what party affiliation anybody is.

This "bipartisan" McCain you speak of is a media creation. He's almost always voted on party lines, and in the past 2 years, extremely close to party lines. He's socially conservative, and now is economically, foreign policy, and immigrationally in line with neoconservatives.

You people that think that republicans are responsible for high gas prices and a slowing economy are the same people that think Clinton created the tech boom and Gore invented the internet. Obama will save all those with struggling finances and will make damn sure that those too lazy to work will have excellent healthcare. He will execute this brilliant maneuver due to his extensive background in business and government.

This is a strawman, you're arguing points that nobody is making. Though FYI, a president has a minimal affect on the economy, most of the time. Our massive borrowing from China to fund the war probably has caused some devaluation of our currency, that would just make sense. But generally, it's larger than the presidency.

The "too lazy to work" comment show's a sad ignorance of the realities of healthcare in this country. I don't know where to begin. Have you ever been without healthcare? I worked a 40 hours a week and still couldn't afford it, at one point in my life.

If he does get elected, and 2 years from now you are in a car accident and are standing in line 250 yards outside of an emergency room behind 3,564 unemployed 'liberals' with runny noses, I hope you have some advil with you.

I know I'm banging my head against the wall here, but emergency rooms take people based on severity, not first come first server, and people going to emergency rooms with minor complaints is exactly a result of uninsured masses, and wouldn't exist in nationalized healthcare.

Nationalized healthcare programs rate higher than US healthcare in almost every metric, and cost less as well, both out of pocket, and tax-wise. I can easily back this up with data if you'd like, but that's really a seperate thread.

 

[B_starinvestor]

i would be very interested in seeing data that demonstrates the nationalized healthcare is less expensive. No way. Either the quality of care erodes or the cost goes up. Healthcare for everyone doesn't just magically appear for free.

In many cases, there are lines outside of medical facilities in nationalized healthcare nations. In Britain, there is a 4 month wait time for hospitalization.

Canada - more of the same. "People line up for care; some of them die. That's what happens," Canadian doctor David Gratzer, author of The Cure, told "20/20".

Furthermore, I concede that McCain has voted mostly with his party (not nearly as frequently as Obama), but he is certainly not neoconservative. In the conservative community he is considered quite the opposite.

Look, I don't want to see anybody without healthcare. A good start would be eliminating these multimillion dollar lawsuits (thanks John Edwards) that are bleeding the insurers dry. Next, put more focus on preventive care. Nobody does anything until they are already sick. I don't have all the answers, but nationalizing healthcare is a very ominous proposition to me.

 

[B_Nick8]

I do not support Obama. I never said I was voting for McCain. I am still in the process of choosing who I will vote for.

But Hillary does. Are you calling her a lier?

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

i would be very interested in seeing data that demonstrates the nationalized healthcare is less expensive. No way. Either the quality of care erodes or the cost goes up. Healthcare for everyone doesn't just magically appear for free.

Ask and you shall receive. An important note....I never said anything about free. Just cheaper.

Average spending on Healthcare(out of pocket)

USA: $3371
Australia: $1017
Canada: $916
Sweden: $532
United Kingdom: $397

So maybe you think "well yeah but they pay way more in taxes". No.

USA: $2887
Australia: $2106
Canada: $2338
Sweden: $2468
United Kingdom: $2372

So how is the quality of care?

US is the 72nd in overall health.

...and 41st in life expectancy.

In many cases, there are lines outside of medical facilities in nationalized healthcare nations. In Britain, there is a 4 month wait time for hospitalization.

Calling bullshit, please provide a source. Even if this were true, they're still somehow magically getting better care than we are.

Canada - more of the same. "People line up for care; some of them die. That's what happens," Canadian doctor David Gratzer, author of The Cure, told "20/20".

Uh...have you talked to people in Canada at all? Or to an emergency room? The implication you're making here is far from reality. And keep in mind the wording. In hospitals, in emergency rooms, there's usually a wait. Those with priority issues get to go first, even if you've been there for hours. I'm talking about in the USA. Rarely, someone dies before they can be seen, for any number of reasons. Gonna need hard data and a source here, please. I should also probably note, that among 1st-world countries, Canada's system is considered almost criminally underfunded.

Furthermore, I concede that McCain has voted mostly with his party (not nearly as frequently as Obama), but he is certainly not neoconservative. In the conservative community he is considered quite the opposite.

You're right, he's a paleoconservative. Anyhow, Obama's not the one trying to distance himself from his party, so I don't really care if he voted with them 100% of the time.

[quote
Look, I don't want to see anybody without healthcare. A good start would be eliminating these multimillion dollar lawsuits (thanks John Edwards) that are bleeding the insurers dry.[/quote]

Somebody has been listening to their insurance company, or their surrogates. And I don't know if you checked, but health insurance companies are insanely profitable. Apparently they have some more bleeding to do.

Next, put more focus on preventive care. Nobody does anything until they are already sick.

Yep, often because of the cost. Take that out of the equation, and what do you know? People go to the doctor more. Which in turn leads to healthier people. If only we had an example I could give you that would indicate this.....perhaps every other industrialized nation in the world? That is why poor people use the emergency rooms as their doctor....they can't afford to go early, and instead can only go when things are critical, as an emergency room is legally bound to treat them regardless of payment.

I don't have all the answers, but nationalizing healthcare is a very ominous proposition to me.

I can see that, but that's because you have been fed misinformation, and are generally uneducated on the issue.