Oh boy, here we go. Whatever dude. You are incapable of self reflection...and there's really no point in continuing on this thread.
a question for gay men.....
- Thread starter concupisys
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Oh boy, here we go. Whatever dude. You are incapable of self reflection...and there's really no point in continuing on this thread.
B_Hickboy
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No, you called what many gay men find to be the most natural expression of intimacy and sexuality one of the most disgusting things a human being can experience , blamed other gay men for the problems you had coming out and then asked others to express similar opinions to congratulate you on your nasty judgements about other people. No one's spreading any hate around her except you.
Forgive me if I don't see that as a morally neutral and socially responsible thing to do. You have brazen cheek talking about sensitivity btw
Oh and btw, you know shit about what others have gone through coming out, so don't presume that what you went through is any more or any less difficult than what anyone else went through and don't presume that difficulty growing up gay turns us all in to judgemental and bitter people anxious to blame other gay men for our problems.
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nudeyorker
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Call it instinct, you of all people should not be surprised of all the crap that gets reported that never should have in the first place.
Lex
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- Lex,
Oh, I know, believe me.
This thread is a classic example of people expressing thoughts and they getting indignant when people challenge those thoughts.
B_Hickboy
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5. snap your fingers, 6. love Will & Grace 7. go to the bars, 8. go to the tubs, 9. like Broadway musicals, 10. like Cher, 11. well, you get the point.
In the OP's defense (I always like to play Devil's Advocate) and by way of example, I just returned from a family reunion in a well-known conservative state where I was just "being myself" but I could tell that some of my long lost relatives, having seen all there is to see on my FB page, were tip-toeing around coming right out and asking questions. However, when talking I would not skirt around talking about my past partners and addressing them as "he." On my last evening there, a man and his wife who I had never met but who are relatives, made a comment after I discussed one of my past bf's. And she's like, "you need to come down to TX and go shopping with me. I have SO been looking for a gay man to help me pick up clothes." I quickly pointed out that the fact my shorts were hanging off my hips so far that you could see my butt crack should have given her a clue that I am not a "fashion conscious" gay man and that not all gay men like to shop. Later, I thought that perhaps I could have been a bit more assertive but I decided that could ruined any chance for future communication.
Also in defence of the OP, I have met men, especially on the net, who often quickly bring up the "purse fell out of his mouth" discussion when talking about meeting other men. I have a few thoughts about that. First, they are obviously expressing their "type" although some of the hottest-looking masculine men I have known possess this stereotypical trait. Second, many years ago I dumped the hottest man I have ever known not specifically for that but at the time it didn't help *AND* for years I have regretted dumping him. Last, it may very well be a form of internal homophobia. Specifically because it is human nature to not want to be around, socialize with and even to have a fear of "the other;" i.e., someone who is not like us. Knowing this, I did not find the OP's "anal" comment offensive. I didn't even think about it because it is simply his preference. Just like some dudes won't swallow and some that do swallow won't snowball. It's all just a matter of personal taste (pun intended!)
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i never expressed distaste about
" blamed other gay men for the problems you had coming out and then asked others to express similar opinions to congratulate you on your nasty judgements about other people."
i asked for shared opinions and stories.... jesus christ guys: get the point.....
" blamed other gay men for the problems you had coming out and then asked others to express similar opinions to congratulate you on your nasty judgements about other people."
i asked for shared opinions and stories.... jesus christ guys: get the point.....
B_bxmuscle
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Ur right. I'm in my 40s, came out very young, and have been saying for ten years now that "mainstream" gay male culture as represented in gay-ghettos like Chelsea in NYC, Dupont Circle in DC, Center City in Philadelphia, the Castro in SF, etc etc is becoming ever more feminized and female-identified. The last straw for me was all the fuss in said circles around the first Sex in the City Movie a few years back. Grown men who dig men totally absorbed into an idealized and fake culture of "powerful" woman in a chick-flick!! You're also right that much of this is media driven. But I'd add that it's largely from media targeted to audiences with a large gay following, like Rue Paul teaching young guys how to be drag queens, or Tyra Banks' shows featuring stereotypically flaming gay males. You see much less of it from gay characters in general audience media, like the homo-thug character of Omar White in HBO's The Wire of a few years ago.
My response is to become my own form of ex-gay: a man who likes guys and acknowledges liking guys, but who has opted out of "gay culture." Let those into this feminized gay male world do their own thing; to each his own. But being a guy who likes guys doesn't mean you have identify with it, frequent it or try to meet the man of your dreams in it. The fact that guys into guys no longer have to be confined to gay ghettos anyway means that there are more options for you out there. Go for it and forget about "gay culture."
My response is to become my own form of ex-gay: a man who likes guys and acknowledges liking guys, but who has opted out of "gay culture." Let those into this feminized gay male world do their own thing; to each his own. But being a guy who likes guys doesn't mean you have identify with it, frequent it or try to meet the man of your dreams in it. The fact that guys into guys no longer have to be confined to gay ghettos anyway means that there are more options for you out there. Go for it and forget about "gay culture."
If you're saying that gay men who work in the media, or who work as entertainers are promoting a stereotype which you say had some kind of ill-effect on you then you are blaming other gay men for the problems you had coming out.
I got your point very well, thanks.
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Except that there are other gay cultures: circuit, sports, leather, cowboy, BDSM, bear, etc etc etc etc. Yeah, when my friends were freaking out about Sex and the City and Glee, I would roll my eyes and tease them, but to each his own. Hrdly any of my friends will come out with me to baseball/football games, but that doesn't make their choices any less legit than mine. Being more stereotypically masculine wont protect you from homophobia.
Those stereotypically feminine gays are the ones who started the modern gay rights movement in the first place. I'd suggest the OP and others who agree with him research the history of Stonewall...it was the trannies, drag queens, and general "trash" that started the riots, and the out and proud types who continued the movement and made it possible for all of us to be openly gay. Those facts alone make their choices worthy of respect. They have more balls than I ever will.
OK, here are some thoughts from a gay man almost twice your age. Media portrayal of gay men is extremely diverse, and has been for decades now. When I came out as a college freshman The Boys in the Band was pretty much the whole story. Bars were about the only place gays could call our own, the only way to meet anyone. If you weren't the type to enjoy bars (and later, seventies disco music nonstop, yuck!) then you were shit out of luck. Your options are much greater now. I realize that this post is in the genre of "back in the day we had to walk to school in the snow barefoot" -- but that's just about how bleak the scene was for a young gay man when I came out. Societal attitudes toward gay men have evolved so much in four decades that I'm frankly surprised to read your posts and see how much resentment you have at what you perceive as circumscribed options due to stereotyping. You may not feel that you have as much freedom as you'd like-- but the freedom you do have is a hell of a lot more than I did at your age. Enjoy it.
What you're saying is totally different to what the OP said. The OP made no distinctions or qualifications about ghettoised cultures or culturally self policing gay scenes in urban america. He made a bunch of catch-all statements and generalisations about all gay men. He also said some pretty obnoxious things about anal sex being " one of the most disgusting things a human being can experience" do you agree with him about that?
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hilaire: just stop it now.... you're pulling on lost and freyed threads to make your point and it's making you look stupid.... (not that you are stupid.... you just sound that way....)
like seriously guys: i want honest opinions and stories about how you vs. 'the gay world' panned out.... i have no intention of judging anyone, and am annoyed that so many people are egging on arguements with me.... I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE WITH YOU....
just tell your tale.... speak the spoke.... verbalize the verbal.... we're all men here, handling what god has given us.... and i want your honest opinion..... how hard is that?
like seriously guys: i want honest opinions and stories about how you vs. 'the gay world' panned out.... i have no intention of judging anyone, and am annoyed that so many people are egging on arguements with me.... I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE WITH YOU....
just tell your tale.... speak the spoke.... verbalize the verbal.... we're all men here, handling what god has given us.... and i want your honest opinion..... how hard is that?
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tomcat: i did pro drag for 2 years.... as a teenager.... because i loved it and not because i was gay.... and i did well at it.... so don't act like i don't know....
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Ok, having read through the first page, it only took that much, i am somewhat shocked at how reactionary in a negative way some of you are being.
The op is expressing an opinion which is relevant to what he feels about being gay, he then gets some quite unnecessary hostility for having those feelings, being his own gay self, from other members claiming that everyone is different and not to judge whilst at the same time getting knickers in a flap over the fact that he is different.
Not all gay guys (myself included) feel comfortable as others being gay. Sometimes, the wider gay community seem alien, maybe because the visible ones are the more flambouyant, more uninhibitted or uncaring, all different but none representing a smaller slice of a gay population which DO cringe at some gay things.
I am dissapointed to be honest with the response to this guy's post. Bitchiness and spitefulness seem to have veiled the replies, a negative trait for anyone, but another associated with gay queenie type guys.
If that offends you, stop being such a bitch, and be more welcoming instead of having a go at somebody who clearly wants to talk.
You may be bored of the whole 'coming out' stuff, i am, it was a while ago and i can't be asked to help anyone deal with their own issues, but attacking them because they are not hunky dory with all the things that you are is a wedge that reinforces a negative image which he has issue with, myself included.
The op is expressing an opinion which is relevant to what he feels about being gay, he then gets some quite unnecessary hostility for having those feelings, being his own gay self, from other members claiming that everyone is different and not to judge whilst at the same time getting knickers in a flap over the fact that he is different.
Not all gay guys (myself included) feel comfortable as others being gay. Sometimes, the wider gay community seem alien, maybe because the visible ones are the more flambouyant, more uninhibitted or uncaring, all different but none representing a smaller slice of a gay population which DO cringe at some gay things.
I am dissapointed to be honest with the response to this guy's post. Bitchiness and spitefulness seem to have veiled the replies, a negative trait for anyone, but another associated with gay queenie type guys.
If that offends you, stop being such a bitch, and be more welcoming instead of having a go at somebody who clearly wants to talk.
You may be bored of the whole 'coming out' stuff, i am, it was a while ago and i can't be asked to help anyone deal with their own issues, but attacking them because they are not hunky dory with all the things that you are is a wedge that reinforces a negative image which he has issue with, myself included.
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Excuse me? stop what now? Making me look what now? I sound stupid because I don't subscribe to your nasty judgements about what other people do in bed? I sound stupid for pointing out that you've started a totally redundant thread about a topic which has been hashed out probably thousands of times already on this site, and for making the point that you want to be congratulated for condemning other gay men for your problems?
I don't want an argument with you, and I'm giving you my honest opinion, which according to your own rules I should be free to express without contradiction. Now which is it? I express my opinions and you counter them, just as I have done to you (I notice you've failed to address any of the substantive points I've made to you) or we can all say whatever the hell we like no matter how offensive because our opinions are sacrosanct as you seem to think they are, and you quit whining that I don't agree with your offensive opinions?
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