A relationship with a relative.

[DrWho]

Before I start this comment I do want to state categorically that I am not in, nor do I intend to be in, a relationship with a family member, I was just prompted to make this post after seeing the thread here:

http://www.lpsg.org/111123-father-son-g-magazine-layout.html

We all know that incest between men and women was made illegal due to frequent insanity in their offspring. This makes sense.

But the thread above made me think, just supposing these two guys were in a relationship together, how would others here view that?

For any relationship both people need to be over 18 of course, below that age, especially with any relative, would be abuse, but what if two adult men like this wanted a relationship together? How would others here feel about that?

There aren't going to be any kids, so no worries about insanity, surely in such a case it would be down to how both men felt?

I've never been in this situation, so I don't know, but I have read here that someone was wanked by his brother, so presumably this favour was returned.

I'm not eliminating women by this comment, but, talking as a guy, if two guys have genuine feelings for each other, are adults, and both really want a relationship together, is that a problem? The only issue I really see here, is the one I stated above, where they wopuld both have to be over 18 to avoid any form of abuse, which is extremely important.

How do others feel? Has anyone been in such a relationship with a relative, be it father/son (as shown in the above thread), brothers, cousins etc? A few years ago same-sex mariages would have seemed impossible, now that has completely changed, what about this issue?

I'm not promoting it or denouncing it, i just wondered how others feel, as the "Father Son" thread above made me think about it and ask myself how I feel about this issue.

 

[killerb]

I'm one of those who believes that sex with family members is just wrong...

 

[Principessa]

We would frown on it. :duh: Dude, you have been here over a year why have you not yet figured this out?

I don't know about where you live, but in the state of Georgia incest means sex between those related by blood or marriage. This includes sodomy and oral sex between people of the same or opposite sex.

As a rule if you have to wonder whether or not it's right or wrong, it's probably wrong.

 

[D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead]

Yeah ... I think most folks believe that it's just immoral to have a sexual relationship with a close relative. It's not just about having kids.

 

[JP0724]

I can only speak for my morals and ideas about that kind of situation and I personally would not be involved in that kind of relationship. Just like as a gay man I would not be involved in a str8 relationship, but I don't frown upon str8 people. It's none of my business if men and women want to get busy together. I kind of feel the same way about this topic. I am not down with it, but if two consenting adults want to be together, then who am I to judge?? It's none of my business what goes on in consenting adults bedrooms.

 

[DrWho]

I can only speak for my morals and ideas about that kind of situation and I personally would not be involved in that kind of relationship. Just like as a gay man I would not be involved in a str8 relationship, but I don't frown upon str8 people. It's none of my business if men and women want to get busy together. I kind of feel the same way about this topic. I am not down with it, but if two consenting adults want to be together, then who am I to judge?? It's none of my business what goes on in consenting adults bedrooms.

I guess that's kind of how I view it really, what two consenting adults do is their own business. If you look at the father-son thread I quoted in the first post someone has posted a link to a website with video footage of brothers and twins having oral and anal sex and wanking each other. If they really both feel the same way then why would some consider it wrong?

I don't even have a brother, so I'm not considering anything like this, I'm just curious as to why so many condemn it as "wrong", a few years ago it was illegal to be homosexual, and anyone found to be was put in to prison, in Nazi Germany they were gassed, times have changed, have the views of a relationship with someone you are related to changed perhaps?

I'm not advocating it, and to be honest I don't even really know what my opinion is, but from the thread about the father-son issue, personally, I see nothing wrong with that if they are both adults and feel the same way.

How do others feel? If you feel it is wrong then please explain exactly why.

 

[2322]

At least for legal benefit purposes, I don't see an issue with relatives living as domestic partners. Unlike marriage, domestic partnership does not imply a sexual relationship and as the face of the American family continues to evolve from a traditional nuclear structure to one of families of choice, our family laws need to change to reflect that.

 

[surferboy]

But the thread above made me think, just supposing these two guys were in a relationship together, how would others here view that?

it's wrong and nasty, on so many levels. i know your example is of two peoples of the same sex brah, here's how i feel: there's a reason that incestuous relationships in a male-female relationship give severely retarded (not in the insult meaning of the word, i'm going for literal) children. mother nature, the spirit of the planet, designed us to not be able for produce viable offspring from incestuous relationships, yah? so, with that logic, even though no offspring can be produced, it's still not meant for be.

I've never been in this situation, so I don't know, but I have read here that someone was wanked by his brother, so presumably this favour was returned.

i'm also against the mutual masturbation of siblings/family members. it's just as wrong and nasty and fucked up as actual incestuous sex. however, looking at this practically, it was only jerking each other off. but i'm not justifying it. it's still fuckin disgusting. and yes, i am judging that sitch. but, this thread is about opinions, and in my opinion, that's fuckin wrong.

I don't know about where you live, but in the state of Georgia incest means sex between those related by blood or marriage.

so georgia has the hamlet/bible definition of incest, yah? i'm not surprised that georgia would have a law based on something the bible says, which is sad because there's supposed to be a separation between church and state, and this country is not founded on the christian faith. i'm looking at you, w. so the law basically states that, should i have sex with my brother's wife, i can be tried for incest. which is wrong, because incest is blood, not marriage. but i digress. i just wanted for address what i find wrong about georgia law, and clarify what i consider incest.

It's none of my business what goes on in consenting adults bedrooms.

bruddah, i'm a "little l" libertarian and agree with this statement...for the most part. i'm with john sutart mill's harm principal, which states peoples should be allowed for do something so long as it doesn't harm anyone else, be it physically, mentally, financially, etc. you said that's it's none of your business if men and women get together, and that that is how you feel about the topic at hand, yah?

well, here's where the harm principal comes in when it comes to an incestuous relationship between a male and a female. as i stated before, and as said by someone else, offspring of those kine relationships end up with severe retardations and other genetic defects. so, in essence, that relationship ends up harming the child, which makes it wrong.

so, now we look at same sex incest, yah? no matter what age the person is, there's some kine abuse going on, imo. the son may be 18 and an adult, but the father will always have influence over the son, which is still a form of abuse. i understand that the major argument for same sex incest is that there is no chance of a child for be coneived. but the wrongness of the acts go beyond the risk of children being born.

views on incest is one of the very few morals that are universally held. other examples being thievery and murder.

sorry for the novel guys, just stating my opinion :smile:

 

[D_CountVonBhigBohner]

Not too fast Surferboy. I have a twin brother and we jerked off together as siblings. OMG we even touched each other while wrestling and jerking off. I don't think it is the same as impregnating your sister.

 

[surferboy]

Not too fast Surferboy. I have a twin brother and we jerked off together as siblings. OMG we even touched each other while wrestling and jerking off. I don't think it is the same as impregnating your sister.

yah, not too fast tekken. i never fully equated it to getting your sister pregnant. i'm just saying that, imo, incest is wrong no matter the circumstances


i have a scruples question for everyone:

let's say cloning was possible, yah? and your clone ages rapidly to your age. let's say you have sex with your clone. would it be incest or masturbation?

 

[Florida Boy]

You need to read 'the boy who folded himself.'

 

[D_CountVonBhigBohner]

An only child surferboy? It sounds like you confuse right and wrong with your personal preferences. Before we start cloning people and having them engage in sexual relations, let me mention once more that two curious brothers are not the same as two brothers who whip out the lube every night.

 

[HellsKitchenmanNYC]

This is an interesting situation since when I started the thread w/the short film about brothers falling in love it got closed. I think it's wroong but there are plenty of videos, mostly vintagey of brothers who fell in love and ended up living together. It's a real thing that happens but prob not that common.
To answer your question, I'm not thinking it's a good idea. Hey there was a day when it wasn't even good to marry a second cousin never mind an immediate family member.

 

[D_CountVonBhigBohner]

There are people who feel the same exact way about two men or two women falling in love. My point is....judge one, judge all.

 

[heist]

Surferboy --

Technically, while incestuous brother/sister relationships have a higher probability of leading to children with homozygous recessive genetic defects, there is still a slight possibility they are virtually genetically unrelated (if it so happens to be produced by random segregation). (This is distinguished from parent-child relationships, where it is guaranteed at least half of their genes match. But even then, there is no guarantee that the matching genes are recessive genetic defects.)

The larger point is, the "genetic" approach doesn't hold water because pretty much anyone mating with someone else has a chance of producing a child with a homozygous recessive genetic defect. Does that mean we stop them from reproducing? No. And what if they have a dominant genetic defect instead, like Huntington's, where it IS guaranteed that 50% of their offspring will inherit the disease? We still don't stop them.

Basically, it is pointless to argue against incest from a genetic basis, because it is unethical to follow eugenics (which would happen if we say "producing imperfect children is immoral").

That doesn't mean there is no good argument against incest. As you said, the power issue can be a legitimate argument. But that should only apply to parents/children or older sibling/younger sibling (if the younger sibling treats the older sibling as a parental figure). And then, what about siblings that are on equal ground? It's hard to say. At best, the siblings themselves should see something wrong with it because they can't see each other in a sexually-attractive context, and so an incestuous relationship doesn't even come to mind. Otherwise, there is nothing stopping them.

Even more so, what if you have two siblings that were separated at birth and meet again late in life (but don't know they are siblings)? This is the same case as if you were to meet someone who just so happens to be genetically similar to you (and thus has a higher chance of producing children with homozygous recessive genetic defects). Can you really say that a relationship is wrong?

P.S. This is off-topic, but why are you from Florida yet write with a Hawaiian accent?

 

[DrWho]

These last few posts have also made me ask, what about step-relatives who are adults? (power issues totally aside, as that's obviously downright wrong to use any form of power to get anyone in to any kind of relationship), but, for example, two step-brothers could fall in love, what then?

 

[Principessa]

These last few posts have also made me ask, what about step-relatives who are adults? (power issues totally aside, as that's obviously downright wrong to use any form of power to get anyone in to any kind of relationship), but, for example, two step-brothers could fall in love, what then?

You Brits can do whatever you want; but in the USA it's wrong and in some states even illegal.

 

[ZOS23xy]

You need to read 'the boy who folded himself.'

That's THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF, by David Gerrold, that guy who wrote the Star Trek Tribbles episode...

 

[ZOS23xy]

Anyway, I feel that sex betwixt relations in the nuclear family is wrong. It pushes a lot of wrong buttons. If not between the two involved, but the rest of the family. This is where concern should be. It also sounds weird and selfish.