A strange group ...

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by PatriotSam, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    Hey Everyone,

    I've lurked on this site for probably 7 years or so since I first heard of LPSG.

    Being a guy who spends plenty of time on his computer I have to say that I came to LPSG trying to get a better sense of how I rate on the "penis size scale" but I got hooked on the "fictitious stories section" and now I’ve come to realize something far more important about LPSG.

    In the last 7 years I’ve found LPSG members to be some of the most open minded, thoughtful and creative people on the internet. I don’t know if it's the inherent "extreme nature" of the site or maybe it's just the type of people that this sort of topic attracts ... but I am writing this post because I have the upmost respect for the members of this forum and feel that the responses will be thoughtful, genuine and honest.

    That being said, I would like you all to help me diagnose a problem.

    I turned 29 this month and for the first time ever I’m getting a strong sense that I need to find a woman and get married. I feel a vague sort of social or maybe biological pressure telling me that I need to find a wife quickly. I'm also feeling a mild sense of loneliness and the desire to share my daily experiences with someone who is closer to me than any friend or family member.

    It's strange because I’ve never bothered much with girls or girlfriends in the past and now suddenly it seems like finding a woman is of the upmost importance!

    While surfing around the internet today I read something disturbing online ... "If you're 30 years old, if you're not constantly looking at women’s breasts and if you don’t have a girlfriend or wife ... then you must be gay."

    Let me just establish that I am NOT gay.

    That being said, this comment angered me, confused me and got me thinking at the same time. I’m often asked if I’m gay ... or people automatically assume that I’m gay ... and now I’m worrying that maybe something that I’m doing or part of who I am is projecting the wrong sort of image and/or attracting the wrong type of people ... or possibly even impressing/intimidating the right kind of women to where they're anxious to approach me?

    From searching around the internet I’ve gathered that part of my problem may be that I’m too secure, confident, emotionally available, kind, considerate, open-minded, respectful, artistic, passionate, romantic, intelligent, optimistic, ambitious, healthy, helpful, talkative and generally too friendly to be a straight guy … or possibly that I’m “too good to be true”.

    Beyond just being presumed gay … these attributes tend to label me as nerdy, dorky or geeky as well.

    Another strange thing that I notice about myself (or at least I’m classifying it as strange based off of the behavior of others) is that I’m not constantly chasing tail and the opportunity to have sex is not the primary motivating force behind my desire to associate with women ... I mean sex is part of it ... but it's not the ONLY part.

    I just want a beautiful woman who I love so intensely that when I look at her my eyes have to adjust themselves to take in all her beauty and my heart feels like it's going to rip out of my chest. I want to learn every curve of her body, make passionate love to her, hold her close at night and feel our hearts beating together. I want us to understand each other, trust each other and be able to rely on one another. I want to share our lives and our experiences and most of all, I want to know that when I look at her with all that love and passion, she’s looking back at me the same way.

    The hardest part about the whole “being presumed gay” thing is that if I were to explain the feelings in the above paragraph to anyone but my one closest friend … I would likely be insulted, ridiculed and called “gay”.

    Reading through other forums online I found a few responses to similar questions saying how those who are insecure will look at those who are secure with a sense of envy and malcontent. This feels very true for the “why do people think I’m gay” question (as well as some other forms of animosity I get from time to time) … but it doesn’t really help me with the “why can’t I find a girl” question.

    Seems to me like everywhere I go to “socialize” it’s littered with girls that are too young, too old, too desperate, too loose, to ditzy or simply too far away from what I’m looking for.

    Unfortunately, most of the women I’m attracted to don’t frequent “social hot spots” because they’re too busy having an actual life, have independent personalities and don’t follow the herd … which makes them hard to associate with because there’s no one place you can go to find these women in abundance.

    Now that I’ve gotten this far into my post I’m starting to realize that there really may be no solid answer to my concerns … but I’m still interested in hearing the thoughts of the LPSG members.
     
  2. jerkdude75

    jerkdude75 New Member

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    Is being "presumed gay" your biggest concern? That's very telling.
     
  3. D_Rod Staffinbone

    D_Rod Staffinbone Account Disabled

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    hate to say it dude 'cause you might be a great guy, but maybe you're
    turning off the chicks with that big ego of yours and not because of any gay vibe. if you get out of yourself things may start to happen for you.
     
  4. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']No no, being presumed gay is not a concern at all. What bothers me is the fact that something in the way I am or how I present myself is coming of as gay ... and because of that it's working against my ultimate goal of finding a woman.

    Although when people who use the term "gay" as an insult is rather annoying to me.
    [/FONT]
     
  5. ledroit

    ledroit New Member

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    I don't think the "gay" label is an issue. Maybe it caught your attention because you don't have 10 years of experience with women to confirm to yourself (and your own opinion is the only one that really matters) that you are preparing for marriage with a woman.

    If you haven't spent much time dating, or looking for mates, I'd say that is where you need to start now. Many people are in your shoes. People spend their 20s getting set up professionally, exploring the world, thinking, getting PhDs, credentials, starting a business, what have you. Some guys don't get serious about marriage and settling down till their mid-30s, 40s.

    The only important thing in this question, and your situation, is you. Not anybody else's opinion, label, classification.

    But for marriage, you need experience in relationships. You can't think your way into marriage, love, or sex. You have to jump into the water and swim. If you do have anything that keeps you back from jumping into the water, you have two choices: 1) think about what is holding you back, or 2) jump in, and see if you can figure out how to swim using your own style.

    My recommendation is #2. If you get into trouble, have problems or questions you want to think about, go to your friends, or talk about them in one way or another in a group like this, or in other groups. Action and interaction is the best teacher when it comes to relationships.

    Get out there, start exploring, do some research, correct your mistakes, develop your interpersonal strengths, and then you'll have a broader base and more material to work on when it comes to what kind of relationships, people, partners make you feel happier, and more like yourself--and what kind does not.

    Forget about labels. Your life, and life itself in a great world full of people, is not reducible to labels and classifications.
     
  6. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    I don't argue that I'm very self confident ... but my ego is not excessive in the way that you're suggesting. The explanation of my attributes is merely an illustration of my own self awareness. I don't normally run around telling people that I am great.

    The whole "too good to be true" comment actually stems from a past date where at the end of the night i was walking the woman home and she expressed that she was somewhat uncomfortable with me because she felt that I was too nice and too "perfect" ... and she had the feeling like she was going to wake up in a bathtub full of ice with a missing liver or something!

    She said that due to past relationships she felt that something had to be wrong with the situation because "guys just don't act that way" ... which sort of put me off because I don't know how else i would act toward a woman. (respectful and polite)

    I assured her that all her organs where safe and that I had plenty of flaws that she could learn about if she hung around me long enough.

    In the end we never really kept in contact ... something about her insecurity or reluctance to trust me didn't interest me very much.
     
  7. SpeedoGuy

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    Sam:

    I applaud your recognition of where you are and where you want to go in this life.

    As to being called gay:

    I got called "gay" lots of times because, as a youth, I dared to be more interested in books than contact sports. For a young man, it was, unfortunately, a sure path to nearly complete osctracization in rural California in the 1970s. While I never enjoyed being ridiculed for simply being who I was, the "gay" label never never enraged me like it did some others because it just didn't stick. It had no power over me because it wasn't a hot button issue.

    I've got plenty of insecurities but sexuality isn't one of them.

    As to wanting to meet more women, especially independent minded types:

    I suggest change. Change who you socialize with. Change where you spend time. It makes so much difference about the type of people you are surrounding yourself with.

    Try joining a church. Yup, that's right, a church. You might just be surprised at what you find. I sure was. Try changing gyms (or joining a gym). Try joining an outdoors adventure club or a book club or some kind of co-ed athletic team. Try taking classes at a local community college. Take classes like scuba diving, weaving or mountaineering. Take a co-ed adventure vacation.

    Lastly, the image you project to the world (and how others percieve you) may be completely different than the image you have of yourself in your own mind. The difference may explain some of the social drawbacks you are enduring. Learn to recognize the difference, account for it, and take corrective action.

    Good luck.
     
  8. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    Thanks ledroit, that's exactly the type of response i expected to get out of this group ... i don't know why but you don't really get the flaming abusive responses here that you do other places on-line.

    Anyway, the highlighted quote above is pretty much me in a nutshell.

    I started my own business and prior to that i was working for a company which pretty much isolated me from contact with a lot of good women. Now that I'm running my own business i find that I'm still isolated from women due to the fact that i work out of my house and don't have anyone to socialize with.

    My friends are pretty much non-existent ... not because i don't try to find them ... it's just that the people i like are as busy as i am ... and as such they are in the same isolated boat. Either that or they're already in great relationships which really takes them out of the whole "hang out" friend pool.

    The women i find that I'm truly attracted too are also very busy people and thus far I've not found a single one who isn't already attached to someone else. The girls i go after (in my opinion) are grade A people and it never comes as a surprise that they've already been scooped up.

    Recently I've been scouring the city trying to gather up locations, events, classes or any other sort of group activity that would involve meeting people with similar interests to me ... and thus far it's been great fun! But i still run into the problem of their being very few women in these activities (science/technology based activities) and any women that do regularly attend are only there to support their husbands or boyfriends.

    Of course, i live in the northeast US and it's a "socially stuffy" and conservative area ... relatively speaking. I regularly attend an event in Arizona every winter where i usually spend a little time in Las Vegas and Los Angeles ... some years i even get up to San Fransisco if i have the time ... and i have to say that the attitude is totally different ... i tend to feel more relaxed and accepted on the west coast than i do on the east.

    I often think about relocating but I'd like to stabilize my business before i make that sort of move.

    But in the mean time I'll just keep trying to put myself into situations where I'm exposed to more people and see where that takes me.
     
  9. CUBE

    Gold Member

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    My straight friend is asked once in a while if he is gay. He always says when they apologize, "Are you kidding, there is no greater compliment. It means I'm attractive, witty, smart, well groomed, in shape, well dressed, and a catch...I worry when they don't think it." Meanwhile he gets tons of pussy. Anyway I am off track. The thing is when you have the need to settle down and find a woman...go for it. What's the problem? You have to look for a partner with some effort sometimes...get out and go for it.
     
  10. shyvixen_chicago

    shyvixen_chicago New Member

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    ROFL- i almost fell backwards out of my chair laughing out loud at this. :tongue: some people, you just gotta laugh that they would even come up with such a thing. and it's kidneys- not liver. she should have checked her urban folklore before pulling that one.

    nevertheless, i'm pretty much at the same point in my life that you are. i was actually just journaling about this same thing earlier today. have you ever heard of the Saturn return? i came across this one day after hopelessly trolling around on the internet and it just made a whole lot of sense to me.
     
  11. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    That has got to be the weirdest and most accurate astrological thing I've ever herd!

    The only thing that's completely wrong with the Saturn return experience is the fact that I'm enjoying the changes ... a lot! Furthermore I've been trying to make these sorts of changes since i was 16!

    Constantly trying to be taken as an adult but constantly being treated as a child. I am so looking forward to turning 30 because it feels like that magic "3" makes everyone take me more seriously and because of that i can start to get some real work done!

    Though i have had some shifts in my career, it's generally remained on the same track. I did quit my day job last year to start my own company ... although I've tried to start companies in the past and that's always been my dream ... mostly because I hate bosses.

    One sort of reassuring aspect of the Saturn return is the shrugging off of relationships from my past 30 years. One in particular has been the distance that's been growing between me and one of my childhood friends.

    I was supposed to be the best man at his wedding a few months ago but he ... or she ... someone backed out of the wedding at the last minute for reasons that are still unknown to me.

    I've tried contacting him about it but he won't respond ... i mean you think you would talk about such a thing with your best man.

    I think part of the reason he's upset with me is because i didn't think that his wedding was as important as he thought it was ... i don't know what he expected me to do but all of his groomsmen live in different states and many already have families ... it's almost as if he wanted us to drop everything just to hold his hand thru the whole process ... which i couldn't see happening.

    But the point of bringing him up is that i feel like I'm growing apart from him very quickly. I also feel like if i try to maintain/repair that friendship it's going to cost me a lot in my own life ... and I don't really feel that its worth holding myself back for.

    It seems like his Saturn return is much harder on him than mine is. I just hope that in a few years he'll come back around and we can continue our friendship.

    In terms of finding a girl ... i just want to get on that road right now ... it definitely is me lining things up for the future. I want a wife ASAP and I want to start a family at 32.

    The whole Saturn return thing is very interesting ... still doesn't tell me where to go to associate with the kind of women I'm looking for. See if you can find me a star that will help me out with that.
     
  12. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    After you told me about the Saturn return i looked it up on YouTube and found this video ... it's very bizarre ... and for some reason i want to go to Burning Man now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwdPVNHjKE0
     
  13. shyvixen_chicago

    shyvixen_chicago New Member

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    haha, i've been wanting to go to burning man forever. somehow the idea of living in the desert for how many days and using a bucket for a toilet just doesn't seem to appeal to any of my friends.

    why do you want to settle down at so specific an age? what happens if things don't pan out like that? i mean, hey i wish you all the best luck, but sometimes you can't really pinpoint these kinds of things. love and relationships take time. what if you found your dream girl tomorrow but she had a different agenda? would you not continue the relationship because of that? i'm just wondering...
     
  14. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    Well you know, they make some pretty fancy buckets these days!

    Porta Potti 465

    And I'm not set in stone about anything ... i just always figured that around 30 seemed like a good time to get married and i like kids so if i got married at 30 i didn't think we would get more than a few years before we had one.

    I'm totally flexible though ... having a plan is nice because you can work toward it ... but it's actually the unknown and the surprises that i enjoy the most.
     
  15. shyvixen_chicago

    shyvixen_chicago New Member

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    i can see how some people find comfort in having that goal/plan. guess i'm just a bit pessimistic because i have no freaking clue of what i want to do with my life yet. i'm just wanting to try out the whole relationship thing to see what all the hubbub is about since i keep losing friends/family to relationships... it's one of the few things i haven't given any thought to yet.

    maybe i'll get one of those fancy portapotties and go live out in the desert for a minute before trying to settle down. :tongue:
     
  16. whatireallywant

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    I'm a woman who grew up being called gay because I DID like contact sports! :biggrin1: (I liked books too, which was also frowned upon! :eek: Where I grew up, being "bookish" was not accepted in boys OR girls, and liking sports was not accepted in girls...)

    The highlighted parts are great ideas! I've done some of these things myself and while I haven't had a lot of success in dating, some of that is due to extreme shyness. I takes a lot for me to just go to a club meeting or to go to church (I have issues with church due to the fundamentalists I grew up around, but I found a church that I can live with, that is much more open minded...)

    It's interesting about how where you live makes a difference. Some people say it doesn't but I say it definitely DOES. I've lived in rural Indiana, as well as Indianapolis and San Antonio. I fit in best in San Antonio, and worst in rural Indiana, where I don't fit in at all.
     
  17. Riven650

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    I feel a lot of what you're saying here. I went through a very confusing period at school when a group of girls who I didn't know decided I was gay and started sneering 'poof' at me as we passed on the stairs etc. I think they were responding to the fact that my style was slightly unusual (this was in the late '60s. 'Skinhead' was a big style group in our school and I hated it and what it represented. I wore flaired trousers, black leather biker jacket and grew my hair long) and as those girls didn't know what to make of me I guess they were suspicious. I think it might also have been that as I wasn't hitting on them like a lot of the other guys, they presumed I didn't like girls. Truth was that I had been dating girls for several years and simply wasn't interested in them - they were coarse loudmouthed and bigoted. The last thing I'd dream of doing would be to date anyone who'd insult anyone over perceived sexuality. I never held with homophobia, racism, sexism, etc.

    So what's going wrong for you? I might have missed it in your text, but I didn't spot your description of what kind of house or apartment you live in. Once you're passed a certain age this will have an enormous impact on your attractiveness to any potential mate. I have a good friend (he and I were at college in the '70s) who is still in your situation at age 48. Yes, he's 48 an has never had a proper relationship with a woman. I guess he was slightly disadvantaged as a teenager. He was very spotty, and as an only child I don't think he'd had much contact with girls. He certainly didn't seem to know how to approach them and always appeared awkward and childish in company - like a big puppy. This in itself isn't a massive problem, but he never seemed able to give girls eye contact and I think he gave them the idea he wasn't interested. Today he's a successful photographer, makes loads of money, has a very powerful sports car, as well as a new Mercedes full of expensive cameras, but he's very unhappy because he's still single. He came up to visit me and my wife recently (in his lovely sports car) and showed us pictures of the girl he's 'in love' with. She's a 29 year old model and he's been taking her shopping and buying her presents, and he's yearning for her. She's telling him he mustn't, and that she just wants to be friends, and she's got boyfriends, etc. but he's still kidding himself that he's in with a chance and he's carrying on like a besotted 16 year old. That's just the trouble. He doesn't seem to have grown up. My wife and I were very patient and listened to his stories about her, but we found ourselves telling him he should let it go because she's far too young. Then he started saying stuff about he doesn't want a divorcee with kids, etc. and that was the end of it. He didn't stick around to hear any more 'advice'. After he'd gone my wife turned to me and said 'the biggest problem is that he's still living with his mum'.

    There's just a chance that ....... (insert name of aforementioned model) would have a relationship with him if he had his own place. Then he could go through the very necessary business of finding out what relationships are about (sharing, compromise, trust, etc. plus being dumped) the hard way like the rest of us. The obvious problem my friend has is that after his dad died, he decided that he couldn't leave his mum on her own and never moved out. The second, and a less obvious problem, is that he fears failure, so he tends to put obstacles in his own way. The third problem is part of that second problem: He's looking for a woman who fits a very specific ideal; 'single, attractive, nice girl, etc.' and he jumps to conclusions all the time. ie. I asked him why he doesn't go out clubbing, or on a singles holiday, and his answers were the usual 'oh, you know the kind of people who go to those places....." It's a bit like Groucho Marx's famous saying "I wouldn't join a club that would have me as a member."

    So what's going on with you. I suspect you may be suffering from some of my friend's problems. It certainly sounds like you are placing too much importance on finding Ms Perfect and seem to have a plan to be married by a certain date. That's completely silly and self defeating. You've got to take the pressure off, and just try to enjoy yourself in mixed company. Don't compare yourself with others. Don't allow 'finding a partner' to be the main topic of conversation around you - that's a real no-no as it makes you look like a real loser. For god's sake change the subject and stop talking about yourself. Aa Ha! That's another problem that my mate has. When he visited us we spent the whole damn time talking about him. Thereby hangs a tail..... You spent 7 years lurking on this forum and when you finally get round to saying something...... it's all about you. Maybe this tends to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway: You have take an interest in other people if you want them to take an interest in you.
     
    #17 Riven650, Nov 3, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2008
  18. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    Who says that settling down means you cant go into the desert? I probably wouldn't go unless I had a girlfriend/wife to go out there with!
     
  19. shyvixen_chicago

    shyvixen_chicago New Member

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    i just always saw self-exploration and the personal journey as a solitary thing...guess that says a lot about how i view relationships then, huh? god, no wonder i'm still single :tongue:
     
  20. PatriotSam

    PatriotSam New Member

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    You're totally off base with the "I'm all about me" mentality. I'm generally a very caring, helpful person and try very hard to make those around me happy. Of course, there also comes a point where you need to take care of yourself and put your own needs ahead of others. It's obviously a matter of balancing the two ... if you get too biased in one direction you'll get totally out of whack!

    As to my living situation ... i bought a duplex 2 years ago in a rapidly developing small town north of "the big city" and have been fixing it up ever since ... everyone says I'm crazy to put so much effort into the renovations because it's "just a rental property" but i really want to make this place an exclusive "designer apartment" ... something people really want and will love to live in. (I hate doing a half assed job.) I currently have tenants (who have become good friends) in the other half of the building whose rent pays the mortgage ... that was my intention after living in an apartment complex for 3 years with the rent raising each year.

    I graduated from college with a B.S. in Media Arts in 2002 and then went on to work for a fireworks distributor designing all their product labeling, catalogs, TV commercials and other advertising.

    It's a tremendously fun industry to work in but i couldn't stand the management with my previous employer ... so last October i quit that job to start my own specialty marketing company that provides media and marketing services to the whole pyrotechnic industry. It's not making me a ton of money yet but I'm still in my house and the utilities are still on ... I'm struggling a little right now but traditionally the fall is the busy time for marketing in the fireworks business ... so hopefully things will pickup and I'll get a nice push into 2009.

    Regardless of what happens I'm doing what i love so it's all good ... and if i fail the first time around I'll just keep trying until i succeed! I'm in one of those situations where I'm doing what i love ... so by failing ... i just start right back where i began ... which is no real loss.

    But the point of all this is that I'm really well rounded, stable and i love interacting with people.

    My life is going so well that it's almost unfair.

    So my girl problems don't arise from some deep seeded trauma earlier in life ... i think it's really just a matter of finding the right type of woman ... and finding one who is available.

    Are my standards high ... ABSOLUTELY ... but i wouldn't change that for anyone and i don't care what anyone tells me. I'm a great guy who deserves nothing less than a great woman! (That's not to say that I'm not without my flaws.)

    Also, you have to realize that my high standards are just that ... MY STANDARDS ... not anyone else's. I don't play by what the system tells me ... i want a "non-traditional" woman, i want a woman who is healthy and as fit as i am so we can participate in physical activities together, i want a woman who is intelligent and can keep up with me in a good conversation, i want her to have her own career ... essentially i want a woman who doesn't need me for anything other than the emotional and physical relationship that share with each other.

    And as to having a plan ... how is that absurd? Having a plan is not absurd ... however, freaking out when everything doesn't go according to plan is totally absurd ... especially with love and relationships.
     
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