Abortion and the healthcare bill

Northland

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why was it in there in the first place?

If a woman wants to make the decision to abort a baby - why should taxpayers foot the bill?

Close your legs.

Cough up 25 cents for a condom.

It begs the question - "who are you trying to placate?"

i agree that everyone should have medical insurance, but anyone that wants me to pay for a 'romp in the hay' for somebody that has absolutely no respect for human life, no respect for women, and doesn't give a damn about any of the consequences - eh, who are they looking out for?
Your fevered hatred of the healthcare bill has now crossed a line. Although I am not a big fan of the bill as it stands, I believe that the matter of abortion most definitely should be part of it.

Incest and other forms of rape, lead to unwanted, unplanned pregnancies and no woman should be forced to carry the memory of the violation to term. It's tragic enough that she will have the sexual assault in her brain forever, there is no way to justify making them have the product of the assaut as well. Additionally, she may give the child for adoption, which will bring costs the abortion never would have. And what if she raises the child; but, due to being young, can't obtain a decent wage and now has to get government aid- welfare, medicaid, foodstamps, section8 housing vouchers, etc. etc. The costs can be high. The woman should not be denied choice on abortion for any reason, and definitely not based on cost/ability to pay.

Pregancy which threatens the life of the mother, should be covered as well and if testing shows the fetus has a developmental issue or is carrying a an early-life-ending genetic code (Tay-Sachs springs to mind, there are others), the mother to be should, must be, entitled to having the access and payment for the abortion.

Whereas, I am personally against abortion, it is always the right of the woman to decide and in the cases mentioned above (death, illness, rape) she must be allowed access at no cost to her. To force a woman to have a child is unconscionable. Further, think of long term costs. A rape victim may have to follow with years of mental health therapy and possible hospitilization for depression, suicidal thoughts. If a woman has life threatening issues from the pregnancy, the medical costs rise dramatically and may even include after birth care, depending on what the issues were- if she suffers high blood pressure and has a stroke and needs to learn the motor skills again, this could take a while and the added cost of care for the child who would have to be looked after during that time.

If the child is going to be faced with a disease/illness which will alter their life, there are costs. A child with neuromuscular diseases, needs therapy, assistive devices, medical appointments, etc. A child with Tay-Sachs has health issues which need coverage, a child born with Cystic Fibrosis, and a host of other health issues which a parent to be might feel ill-equipped to handle and if forced to have the child, might need added care herself as well as less of an ability to earn wages if they must stay with the child, or having to hire and pay for care for the child. The mother to be must have access and choice.

At the end of the day, the woman must always be allowed the freedom of choice, and given the assurance that the government will pay for it. If the government can afford to send people to a space station, they can afford to cover an abortion for the woman.

If the choice and payment are removed, women will return to the days of back alley coat hanger abortions and there will be higher after care costs there, than a single abortion would generate when infections and hemorrhaging among other medical issues from illegal abortions are taken into account. Is that what you are endorsing starvestor?


The death penalty is stunningly cost effective, too.

Immediate deportation of illegal immigrants is stunningly cost effective.

It has been shown that the death penalty is not currently all that cost effective when you take into account the mandatory appeals which generate legal costs- lawyers on both sides, often legal defense for the defendant is court appointed- i.e. taxpayer pays, the court fees, the minimal payment to the jurrors, etc. etc.

Deportation is not an overnight deal either, deportation involves various agencies and many steps all costing the taxpayer.
 

B_starinvestor

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Your fevered hatred of the healthcare bill has now crossed a line. Although I am not a big fan of the bill as it stands, I believe that the matter of abortion most definitely should be part of it.

Incest and other forms of rape, lead to unwanted, unplanned pregnancies and no woman should be forced to carry the memory of the violation to term. It's tragic enough that she will have the sexual assault in her brain forever, there is no way to justify making them have the product of the assaut as well. Additionally, she may give the child for adoption, which will bring costs the abortion never would have. And what if she raises the child; but, due to being young, can't obtain a decent wage and now has to get government aid- welfare, medicaid, foodstamps, section8 housing vouchers, etc. etc. The costs can be high. The woman should not be denied choice on abortion for any reason, and definitely not based on cost/ability to pay.

Pregancy which threatens the life of the mother, should be covered as well and if testing shows the fetus has a developmental issue or is carrying a an early-life-ending genetic code (Tay-Sachs springs to mind, there are others), the mother to be should, must be, entitled to having the access and payment for the abortion.

Whereas, I am personally against abortion, it is always the right of the woman to decide and in the cases mentioned above (death, illness, rape) she must be allowed access at no cost to her. To force a woman to have a child is unconscionable. Further, think of long term costs. A rape victim may have to follow with years of mental health therapy and possible hospitilization for depression, suicidal thoughts. If a woman has life threatening issues from the pregnancy, the medical costs rise dramatically and may even include after birth care, depending on what the issues were- if she suffers high blood pressure and has a stroke and needs to learn the motor skills again, this could take a while and the added cost of care for the child who would have to be looked after during that time.

If the child is going to be faced with a disease/illness which will alter their life, there are costs. A child with neuromuscular diseases, needs therapy, assistive devices, medical appointments, etc. A child with Tay-Sachs has health issues which need coverage, a child born with Cystic Fibrosis, and a host of other health issues which a parent to be might feel ill-equipped to handle and if forced to have the child, might need added care herself as well as less of an ability to earn wages if they must stay with the child, or having to hire and pay for care for the child. The mother to be must have access and choice.

At the end of the day, the woman must always be allowed the freedom of choice, and given the assurance that the government will pay for it. If the government can afford to send people to a space station, they can afford to cover an abortion for the woman.

If the choice and payment are removed, women will return to the days of back alley coat hanger abortions and there will be higher after care costs there, than a single abortion would generate when infections and hemorrhaging among other medical issues from illegal abortions are taken into account. Is that what you are endorsing starvestor?





It has been shown that the death penalty is not currently all that cost effective when you take into account the mandatory appeals which generate legal costs- lawyers on both sides, often legal defense for the defendant is court appointed- i.e. taxpayer pays, the court fees, the minimal payment to the jurrors, etc. etc.

One bullet = $3. One appeal should be it. All of those meaningless government jobs out there and they can't get somebody to speed up that appeal?

Ridiculous.

Deportation is not an overnight deal either, deportation involves various agencies and many steps all costing the taxpayer.

Here again, more gov't red tape and inefficiency. Those illegals should be shipped out of here on a shuttle right now.
 

B_starinvestor

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According to an editorial in the WSJ this morning, most of this pile of shit bill can be repealed in November when the elections get some of these bozos out of Congress.
 

nudeyorker

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Well since I rarely venture into this forum without being summoned; I have given the subject a great deal of thought durning the health care reform debates. First let me state I have always been pro-choice in the matter of abortion. However I disagree with it being used as an alternative to using birth control. In the case of rape, and medical necessity (these cases would be easy to control) I don't feel like abortion should be viewed as an elective procedure and should be covered in the plan. As an elective procedure I don't feel that it should. If you want it pay for it yourself. After my automobile accident my reconstruction surgery was deemed elective... I know apples and oranges but I chose to do it and coughed up the cash because it was important to me.
 

houtx48

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"But if they have no ability to financially support the raising of a child, the choice should be made for them".................that makes no sense; with that kind of reasoning why have they not cut off your typing fingers yet?
 

Industrialsize

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According to an editorial in the WSJ this morning, most of this pile of shit bill can be repealed in November when the elections get some of these bozos out of Congress.
Guess again.......If by some FREAK chance Both the Senate and the House are taken back by the Republicans and they vote to repeal health care reform, the President would veto the repeal. The Senate would need 67 votes to over-ride a Presidential Veto. That ain't gonna happen.
 

B_flashflash

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tell you what, in the US if abortion was made free on NHS (or whatever) they are such a greedy country that people wouldn't think twice about using it over and over again like every other medical procedure/drug/food whatever... There is no ethical responsibility or there is too much in the US. You get people protesting against women undertaking a procedure so life-changing in a private clinic (abortion) and people with no respect for nature and themselves pumping themselves up with shit and venom on their face until they look like a different race (plastic surgery)...I think this bill is good, I think America should move forward and lead the world on change and ideals, like it has been in the last century. On top of that, let's not forget that it is a young country and change needs to be implemented in steps. rant over
 

B_talltpaguy

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You're right. Don't pay $200 so a woman can abort a kid... That way, you can pay over a million dollars raising the little deadbeat and incarcerating him when he comes and steals your car, because he was raised in a shattered home and didn't get raised right by his indifferent parents who didn't want him and couldn't afford him.
There are alternatives such as death penalty or the army.
Good thinking... The average US death penalty trial costs taxpayers over $1.25 million, and the average US death row inmate costs taxpayers well over $30million to incarcerate and execute... The average soldier costs about $400k per year to deploy, and will cost taxpayers millions during his military career, even if he's a scrub that just stays in for a few years.

Or, we could assume that the couple who will be mandated with raising and paying for the little bastard neither one of them want, know the situation better than the government does, and let them go cough up the money to end a lifetime of regret before it starts.

We all know for a fact that nobody can or ever will stop abortions, just like conservatives ideologues have already made everyone else in this country pay through the nose to find out the hard way that we can't stop people from drinking, doing drugs or gambling either. Government is all but powerless when it comes to enforcing absolutes. But what government can do is regulate things, and minimize the impact of the bad things people do. We should be sensible, realize that we're never going to full out stop bad behavior, and then we should set it up so that we discourage those behaviors through pragmatic means that are proven to work, rather than relying upon failed ideologies that do not solve problems, but instead exacerbate them.


We should put the issue to a national vote that mandates all citizens who vote in favor of banning abortions will also be exclusively taxed to pay for all of the social and law enforcement infrastructure that government will need to take care of all of those unwanted children.
 
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I don't understand the controversy even if this WAS in the bill (oh and chances are you've BEEN paying for someone else's abortions in your plan anyway, If it's any good). People get so riled up about terminating a pregnancy on something that isn't even sentient yet, then chow down on their double-decker bacon cheeseburger. Anyone truly pro-life is a vegetarian against the death penalty; otherwise you're just a self-righteous child not much smarter than the aborted fetus you're trying to attack a woman with who most likely already has enough to worry about.
 

B_starinvestor

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I don't understand the controversy even if this WAS in the bill (oh and chances are you've BEEN paying for someone else's abortions in your plan anyway, If it's any good). People get so riled up about terminating a pregnancy on something that isn't even sentient yet, then chow down on their double-decker bacon cheeseburger. Anyone truly pro-life is a vegetarian against the death penalty; otherwise you're just a self-righteous child not much smarter than the aborted fetus you're trying to attack a woman with who most likely already has enough to worry about.

I'm not pro-life.

I am pro-choice.

I'm tired of being robbed, however, for the benefit of idiots and deadbeats. I would rather these people would have to fend for themselves, instead of the relentless and multi-generational bloodsucking that will never end until somebody puts a stop to it.

Paying for abortions is just exacerbating the problem and getting us more and more away from the solution.

Pelosi's secret deals, Louisiana Purchase, bribery, etc were the only reason abortion was taken out (and with some B.S. executive order) that can be reversed at any time.
 

Industrialsize

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I'm not pro-life.

I am pro-choice.

I'm tired of being robbed, however, for the benefit of idiots and deadbeats. I would rather these people would have to fend for themselves, instead of the relentless and multi-generational bloodsucking that will never end until somebody puts a stop to it.

Paying for abortions is just exacerbating the problem and getting us more and more away from the solution.

Pelosi's secret deals, Louisiana Purchase, bribery, etc were the only reason abortion was taken out (and with some B.S. executive order) that can be reversed at any time.
You've got that a little wrong.......It NEVER was in in the first place. The Exec Order wasn't necessary except to calm the nerves of pro-life dems
 
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I'm not pro-life.

I am pro-choice.

I'm tired of being robbed, however, for the benefit of idiots and deadbeats. I would rather these people would have to fend for themselves, instead of the relentless and multi-generational bloodsucking that will never end until somebody puts a stop to it.

Paying for abortions is just exacerbating the problem and getting us more and more away from the solution.

Pelosi's secret deals, Louisiana Purchase, bribery, etc were the only reason abortion was taken out (and with some B.S. executive order) that can be reversed at any time.
It's pretty obvious that, if insurance stopped covering abortions, that would just make you pay 100x more for these "idiots and deadbeats" as they grow up, as would your kids. 6.7 billion people in the world, shit happens. Get worked up over it or not, that's your choice, but the answer seems pretty obvious to me.
 

midlifebear

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Ah, yes. The BIG scare. Librarians [sic] and Democrats are abortion pushers. Yup. That's all we have on our Big Sheet of Evil Agenda. Next, we're going to make it a felony to broadcast repeats of The Partridge Family. It's all down hill from there. Be afraid, Be very aftraid!
 

vince

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25 cent condoms?? Haven't seen those since I was about 15. Please tell me your source, because I could be saving a lot of money.

Or is this a case of, you get what you pay for? :wink: