Absurd California Policy:

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Dr Rock, Mar 30, 2005.

  1. Dr Rock

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    seems like a good idea to me. it reduces the potential for population growth, whether or not these supposed "fat genes" even exist.

    personally I'm inclined to suspect that the "obesity epidemic" would rapidly decrease if the fat folks in question were forced to lever their gelatinous ass-cheeks out of their favorite TV chairs and run around the block a few times a day.
     
  2. jonb

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    Strange, I would've never thought you were against eugenics.

    Seriously, though, voluntary sterilization's fine. It's involuntary sterilization, e.g. eugenics IHS-style, which is unethical.
     
  3. Imported

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    carolinacurious: The language in the article bothers me more than the program.

    I think it's interesting that they don't even mention the possibility of free tubal ligation for obese women of childbearing age. Something which strikes me as potentially even more effective at achieving their "goal".

    I think this will be all well and good until thin men start suing for free vasectomies claiming discrimination.

    Language that bothers me:

    I'm not a scientist but this doesn't sound very scientific to me:
    and

    What about the psychological factors of non-patients who are obese who have just been told that they are "genetically inferior".


    Logical problems:

    If the problem is in the genes then how can we be having an epidemic of it now? Wouldn't the problem have been just as bad for previous generations? Doesn't this offer evidence that there is more than genetic inheritance at fault here?

    "Permission"(!?) to procreate? Reward? Do you want to get the damn genes out of the pool or not? or is this just about making fat people feel bad?

    Oh really? Wanna bet?
     
  4. jonb

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    I agree that obesity isn't just genetic. We need to get rid of some of these things like remotes and encourage use of stairs. Did you know I've seen TVs where the only way to change the channel is by remote?
     
  5. madame_zora

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    Of course it's not just genetic, it's behavioral! Obese people have different eating habits (speaking for myself here) than thin people. We don't like to talk about this, but some heavy people eat a fucking LOT of food. When I was heavy, it wasn't at all unusual for me to eat fast food twice a day, plus snacks. If the sheer volume of food didn't do me in the choices of what I ate surely did. I choose to go on a pretty drastic diet to drop the weight because I know I have no patience, but I've been able to maintain pretty well by just not eating crap constantly. Fat people need to get honest with ourselves and stop blaming everything else. A little accountability, please!
     
  6. Dr Rock

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    negative. remember that welfare states with medical care available to everyone have ony been around for 3 or 4 generations. prior to that you could expect people with hormonal and physiological defects to be seriously ill, suffer stunted growth, die young and so on.

    while I personally believe that less than 10% of obesity cases include any physiological factor at all, the genetics argument is compelling to laymen because it's easy to accept and shifts the blame away from personal behavior. in our society, any so-called theory that reduces peoples' feelings of responsibility for their lives and actions is immediately greeted with applause and adulation. especially when it relates to a "sensitive" issue like obesity.

    everyone knows, really, that there is no excuse, "in this day and age," for anyone without chronic and obvious neural/glandular diseases to be obese. but if the bloaters can feel better about sitting around all day belting burgers and drinking soda by blaming it on their genes, they're gonna do it. it's much easier to convince yourself that a problem is outside of your control than to convince yourself to do something about it.


    at this stage, I'm sorry to say, either is a good idea. anything that reduces the mind-numbing number of health-affecting obesity cases can only be a good thing, even if it means resorting to eugenics.
     
  7. Pecker

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    For the last hour-or-so I've been Googling, Dogpiling, Asking Jeeves, etc. and I can find no mention anywhere of the subject of the sterilization of the obese in California or elsewhere. Nor can I find any mention or record of the Pacific Northwest Medical Journal

    I think this so-called Journal is an internet fraud.
     
  8. Dr Rock

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  9. BobLeeSwagger

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    The biggest hint was that it claimed to be a pilot project in San Francisco, which is probably the last city that would ever undertake such an effort.
     
  10. Freddie53

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    Behavior to a very large degree. exceptoins to every rule. But most people with a weight problem have a specific dietyary problem. They either eat two plates intead of one at mealtime. They nibble all the time, they like sweets and enjoy them. They are beer drinkers and the list goes on.

    I can drop the weight and I can put it back on. My probem is first sweets. I can eat bunchs of desserts every day. Second rich food. I like rich gravies, salads made with fat cheeses and etc. I don't eat between meals. I don't eat much junk food at all. But those second helpings at dinner time and the dessert afterwards. That is my downfall. And fine restaurants can pack a thousand calories at a one meal easily. Those apetizers, the main course, the dessert and the drink. If you make it under one thousand calories, it is a rarity.

    The secret to losing weight I have found is for each person to truly look at their diet and life style. Look and see what it is that you as a person is eating that is causing your weight problem. Giving up potato chips won't help, if you only eat them twice a year. I don't think there is a perfect diet that will fit every person. We each have to work out our own solution to having too many calories consumed for the calories we are using.

     
  11. Imported

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    carolinacurious:
    negative. remember that welfare states with medical care available to everyone have ony been around for 3 or 4 generations. prior to that you could expect people with hormonal and physiological defects to be seriously ill, suffer stunted growth, die young and so on.
    [/b][/quote]

    So you're saying it's our healthy lifestyles that are making people so fat?
    (sorry, couldn't resist)

    If there has not been an overlooked source of the problem, and the only true difference is that the earlier generation was malnourished then I would have expected them to thrive relative to their peers who need a greater caloric intake just to survive.

    I recently saw some "genius" who was talking about how with the miracles of modern science we could soon genetically modify people so that they could eat more and not gain weight. (Sorry no link-but it was related to one of the "fat rat/skinny rat" experiments) Perfect, just what we need, people who need even more food to just survive, there couldn't possibly be any negative long term effects of that could there?


    Personal anecdote:

    One year in college I made a great friend, we were truly inseperable. For one semester we literally did almost everything together, but most importantly for this discussion we ate all of our meals together, almost always got, or split, the same thing and we did the same physical activities as each other as well. At the beginning of the semester we were exactly the same height and roughly the same in weight and body type. If there was any difference in our eating habits it was that I usually couldn't "carry my own weight"; i.e. he would usually end up eating most of my french fries, or get slightly more than half of the pizza, or eat more chicken wings or whatever. If he was doing any very late night snacking I don't know, but I wasn't, I remember feeling that just meeting him for lunch and dinner (and a small midevening snack) was more than enough food for me and some meals I just had to sit out all together because I will still too full from the last one.

    The results of this "identical" semester? I gained 25 pounds and he lost 20.

    So I believe that there is more going on than just being able to put down the fork. That being said, once I went home for Christmas and looked at the scale, I put down the damn fork and lost the weight.
     
  12. Dr Rock

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    hehe. I never said modern welfare states and medical care were necessarily healthy...
     
  13. jonb

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    Well, it's slightly more complicated. Mesomorphs, because of their greater caloric requirements, are rare in harsh environments, regardless of temperature. AFAIK, there's no similar selective pressure of population stress itself on facial type, just temperature and (of course) sexual selection.
     
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