Actively Bi and your partner doesn't know?

[Fnord]

- Little was known about bisexuality. There was a general approach of "choose a side".

I can relate to this 100% - worse yet, I decided that I had to choose a side. It seemed like the only solution since I had no idea what being bisexual meant and no easy way of finding out (hey, this was BEFORE Internet arrived).


- He is an environment that makes him aware that he stands to be rejected and victimized, so he finds it easier to focus on his attraction to women whilst trying to suppress his attraction for men...after all, there's a stronger pull towards women...

This is exactly right! It's like: here are your two choices (1) choose to be gay and essentially be ostracised - and hey, why do I keep falling for women too? (2) choose to be straight and go with the flow - tough luck that you might feel things for men too!

- He meets a girl, falls in love with her and loves her so much that he believes that his love for her will remove his attraction for men.

Again, absolutely exactly what I thought down to the last thought pattern. You are so amazingly right on about this, it's as if you have been living my life - are you scary or what?? :smile:

So to a large degree, he has opted to be in a relationship with a woman, but uninformed choices have been made in the midst of it all. He is misguided into believing that he can choose to be straight and therefore hasn't considered ways where he can live out his bisexuality in a monogamous and constructive manner. All in all, these feelings and desires have been repressed and there's no outlet...so the pressure builds and builds and builds until eventually the lid blows. By now, the feelings/desires/urges have intensified to a degree where he doesn't have much control over it. So either he acts out at this point. Or else he spends several years experiencing an internal war while he tries to keep things in check...until he can't fight any more.

Well, the Internet arrived and I discovered it was a fantastic resource for finding out about who I was...soon discovered this little category of people who identify as 'bi'! ENLIGHTENMENT! From that point on pressure built rapidly, but amazingly it wasn't until a real dip in my marriage that I decided to take steps to explore my other side. As long as I kept feeling satisfied within my primary relationship, I could basically continue to ignore my other side.


- This realisation has given him a huge sense of relief because he now fully understands himself and has found his place in this world.

I am still trying to accept myself to be honest. Can't get my head around all of the aspects of being bi. I am still married and still love my wife, but with the open relationship I negotiated with her (and the continuous communication we have to ensure we are BOTH still feeling okay with the arrangement) I have more freedom to be my whole self. It IS a great relief, but it leaves me a little confused too. What will happen if I fall in love with a guy? I have never looked at other women because my wife makes me supremely happy - hey, I've admired a few but I have never felt the urge to initiate an affair or anything. Men, however, are a whole new game for me. And they are so amazingly different to approach. I have been pondering the wisdom of perhaps settling on a more permanent sex buddy. The emotional implications of committing to ONE male partner next to my wife, however, are rather difficult for me to predict. Will it help or will it make things worse??


In this day and age, there's much more openness and a greater awareness of bisexuality. Much as there's progress, some patterns remain unchanged:
Young men are either coming out to their girlfriends who make it clear that they don't have a problem with their bisexuality, but expect them to be monogamous. Between the strength of their emotions and sense that this is the beginning and all because they may not find another partner accepting of their bisexuality, they are rushing into things without considering the implications etc. Or else there are guys who keep their bi status hidden with the belief that they'll be able to keep things under control. Little do they know...

A classic example is a guy that I've been exposed to of late. He's been sexually active with men. He's met a woman and because he'd like to eventually settle down with her, he came out to her. She initially felt betrayed, but once she came to terms with it, she made it clear that he has to be monogamous and that they will need to take things more slowly. He's over the moon but at the same time, he's subconsciously expressing his unhappiness at how things stand to play out. He talked about being "locked in" at one point. I suggested that he examines what he'd said and consider the implications of going ahead with things, but I was ignored. I give that relationship 5 years max.

I concur!


Things will play out in one of two ways:

He's going to be unhappy and he'll eventually blame her subconsciously for his unhappiness...which will bleed into resentment and anger....so they'll either disconnect emotionally or they will fight until they get divorced. Or else he'll end up cheating on her because the urges will intensify until he no longer has any control over them.

Very true....to some extent this applied to me too. Before I came out to my wife about being bi (and remember I did NOT understand that concept when I fell in love with her and eventually asked her to marry me), I reached a point where I resented her for limiting me - forcing me to be only 50% of who I am. Entirely unfair of course because she had no idea that I am bi. I am so very glad that we survived this low point and now are truly open in our relationship.

The sad part is that I wasn't suggesting that he ends his relationship...and I think that this is where a lot of bi men trip themselves up. If they only stopped and spent enough time looking at the situation and how things stand to play out whilst bringing them to making informed decisions that are made with conviction, then they'd have a better chance of dealing with things constructively. There's a big difference between embarking upon something with a mindset of being powerless and one of being empowered by the choice that has been made.


It took me years to fully empower myself. And I still sometimes feel guilty about being who I am. Self-loathing is hard to get rid of if you have a society that subtly drops hints that you should essentially be burning in hell!

The second thing, would be to find constructive ways for them to live out their bisexuality whilst being monogamous in their relationships. It could be finding a local bi support group and joining it. Finding an online bi community and joining them. Making friends with bi men and meeting for coffee...so that they can share experiences/hardship etc. I know that this works because I've seen it work; I am friends with two married bi men who are out to their wives who have accepted them but expect them to be monogamous. In the one instance, he visits me regularly and he unloads about how lonely and isolated he feels because of being bi. My other buddy and I meet for coffee about once or twice a month...and we spend hours talking about being bi, perving over hot guys that walk past us etc. That's their way of ensuring that the lid stays off so that pressure doesn't build up inside of them until it's too late.

I very, very briefly flirted with the whole joining a support group thing. I went to a meeting for married gay/bi guys. It was one of the saddest gatherings I have ever attended. There was so much suffering going on. I sat the entire evening listening to guys spill their guts about how locked in they felt, how much they wanted to be themselves to their fullest potential, etc. Some had even brought along their respective husband or wife, who just sat their nodding and listening. The whole thing was so unbelievably painful to witness that I practically swore on the spot NEVER EVER to compromise like that. So in a sense it was pretty cathartic for me. Just talking does not alleviate the pressure enough for me - on the contrary, it just makes me focus on the stuff I DON'T have but DO want!


One of the biggest contributing factors is that feeling isolated and lonely is a general norm for bi men, especially ones who are either closeted or expected to be monogamous. There is no visible bi community out there.

I can completely confirm that I was even scared to have close relationships with my male friends as I was growing up, because I thought they might look at me as a freak. Even today I have very few close friends. I always felt isolated and lonely because I honestly believed there was absolutely no-one out there as weird as me.



The only time when one encounters bi men would be if one were to look for a hookup. The problem is that the isolation and loneliness leads to anxiety. Men tend to be more sexually active/horny when they are anxious...so now a vicious cycle is at play. The isolation and loneliness leads to anxiety...which leads to raging hormones and possibly urges for men to surface...which leads to trying to suppress them...which leads to even more anxiety...and the cycle becomes more and more vicious...and then finally....BOOM! The lid blows and things aren't as controllable any more...[/QUOTE]

Yup, which was the point I took the bull by the horns and decided to find out just exactly what sex with a man was like. I just needed to know what I had been missing. Had been too spineless to try out anything as a teenager and this was compounded by the fact that I consciously chose NOT to have close friends. When I finally DID have sex with a man, I was so happy that I actually cried. It was the very first time in my life that I actually felt whole and at peace.

 

[biguy2738]

I can relate to this 100% - worse yet, I decided that I had to choose a side. It seemed like the only solution since I had no idea what being bisexual meant and no easy way of finding out (hey, this was BEFORE Internet arrived).

It's completely understandable. It would be impossible to make informed choices when there's little or not information at our disposal. Thankfully, bisexuality is becoming gradually visible in the world and with it has come information about what it is. I can only begin to imagine how hard it must have been for bisexuals back in the day. *sigh*

This is exactly right! It's like: here are your two choices (1) choose to be gay and essentially be ostracised - and hey, why do I keep falling for women too? (2) choose to be straight and go with the flow - tough luck that you might feel things for men too!

The worst part of this for me, is the fact that it's a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation. I think that to a large degree, this is where we trip ourselves up and are tripped up by the gay and straight worlds...because we don't realise that much as we're choosing to embrace one side, it comes with choosing to let the other side go...and because we aren't fully away of this, we aren't fully prepared for the repercussions. Many look at this as, "Well if you want to be with a man so badly, then leave you wife and be with him" but this approach is based on a hetero-normative model so there isn't the awareness that if a bi guy has to do this, he isn't better off. Nothing's changed except for the gender with whom he enters into a primary relationship. And what makes matters worse is that there aren't many opportunities where one is able to meet other bi men and find out how they have approached things, what works for them, what tripped them up and how they are dealing with things today. It's all guesswork and unfortunately, it's done with the same approach as that of a hetero-normative model that's outdated and fails even in the straight world (when we look at the high divorce rate worldwide).

Again, absolutely exactly what I thought down to the last thought pattern. You are so amazingly right on about this, it's as if you have been living my life - are you scary or what?? :smile:

Now, if I admit to being scary, it will ruin the surprise, or no? :biggrin1:

To be honest with you, I've spoken to literally hundreds, if not thousands of bi men over the past two and a half years. I've been able to determine patterns which I then attempted to analyze and separate into the "bisexuality" and "human nature" compartments. So you aren't alone in any of this, in fact, I think that you'd be taken aback if you knew just how common all of this is.

Well, the Internet arrived and I discovered it was a fantastic resource for finding out about who I was...soon discovered this little category of people who identify as 'bi'! ENLIGHTENMENT! From that point on pressure built rapidly, but amazingly it wasn't until a real dip in my marriage that I decided to take steps to explore my other side. As long as I kept feeling satisfied within my primary relationship, I could basically continue to ignore my other side.

Once again, you have no idea just how common this is. I'd say that at least 65% of bi men that I've spoken to admitted that they started to explore their bisexuality at a time when either sexual intimacy within their marriage had deteriorated or when things became rocky within their marriage. Another norm (though not as common) would be that the guy was in a long term relationship which ended, he was hurt badly and in the midst of it, he decided to explore his bisexuality. Superficially, it would appear that this is the case because of his newfound freedom, though I suspect that it comes from the need to self protect; there's fear of being hurt by a woman again, so he decides to open himself to men with the hope of not being hurt as badly.

I am still trying to accept myself to be honest. Can't get my head around all of the aspects of being bi. I am still married and still love my wife, but with the open relationship I negotiated with her (and the continuous communication we have to ensure we are BOTH still feeling okay with the arrangement) I have more freedom to be my whole self. It IS a great relief, but it leaves me a little confused too. What will happen if I fall in love with a guy? I have never looked at other women because my wife makes me supremely happy - hey, I've admired a few but I have never felt the urge to initiate an affair or anything. Men, however, are a whole new game for me. And they are so amazingly different to approach. I have been pondering the wisdom of perhaps settling on a more permanent sex buddy. The emotional implications of committing to ONE male partner next to my wife, however, are rather difficult for me to predict. Will it help or will it make things worse??

I applaud you for your bravery in being as forthcoming with your wife as you've been. I know from firsthand experience just how scary it can be. I'm happy that your risk has led to a positive outcome. Good for you!

I don't mean to pry, so please feel free to ignore the following question if you aren't comfortable answering it. Are you afraid of falling love with a guy out of fear that it will make you gay, or because of how it would impact your wife and your marriage? Part of this question is directed at you, so that you can mull over it in private, but the other part of it is being asked because I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. If the latter part of my question is where it's coming from, then I can tell you as someone who has fallen in love with men and had a couple of relationships where the guy became my lover, that for me, it came from different places than that shared with my wife. The irony is that these relationships had a positive effect on my marriage...wifey would constantly say that I was much calmer and at peace during those periods. For me, the part of the relationship that I thrive upon the most is the tenderness that I experience with a man. It's WOW! Especially in light of how we normally relate with other men. It's been incredible for me because of the emotional vulnerability involved. I don't think that we allow ourselves to be as emotionally vulnerable in our relationships with women because of the kind of gender roles that we embrace eg being the protector and provider etc. (once again, they're based on the hetero-normative model).

Very true....to some extent this applied to me too. Before I came out to my wife about being bi (and remember I did NOT understand that concept when I fell in love with her and eventually asked her to marry me), I reached a point where I resented her for limiting me - forcing me to be only 50% of who I am. Entirely unfair of course because she had no idea that I am bi. I am so very glad that we survived this low point and now are truly open in our relationship.

I hope that you aren't beating yourself up for the choices that you made and the path that they led you down. You didn't know any better and the resentment that you felt comes as no surprise. Human nature is human nature; it's hard to operate at our best when certain factors haven't been integrated into our awareness...so we feel certain emotions and behave in certain ways but we don't know where they're coming from.

It took me years to fully empower myself. And I still sometimes feel guilty about being who I am. Self-loathing is hard to get rid of if you have a society that subtly drops hints that you should essentially be burning in hell!

I can relate with your feelings of guilt. I experienced them too. I couldn't shake off the feeling that I'd given my wife a raw deal and it led to me feeling very guilty. Thankfully, my wife helped me to move beyond this feeling of guilt.

I wouldn't pay any attention to the whole "burning in hell" mentality. I'll use Christianity as an example because I'm Christian so I know enough about it to be able to talk about it. Sooo many Christians make us believe that we're abominations etc. and they're so quick to use the Bible in the arguments. The irony is that they don't know anything about it other than how to recite things from it parrot fashion. Apart from the incorrect approach being used, there also isn't the awareness of how a lot of conclusions drawn from the Bible are based on suggestions planted into us as kids but they have no Biblical basis to them. Eg. Where did Adam and Eve eat an apple? I am yet to read about an apple. How about Jonah and the whale? Funny, because I keep finding mention being made about there being a "big fish". And my personal favorite, Sodom and Gomorrah? Now that's interesting because I've looked at Jewish and Christian commentary and I'm yet to see sodomy being brought into the explanation. Most would agree that the story tackles with hospitality towards strangers and some would include orgies etc. into the mix, but there's absolutely no mention of m2m activity being drawn into the mix. Isn't it funny that label for anal sex comes from "Sodom"? I wonder why? I suspect that you're able to identify what I'm alluding to...

 

[biguy2738]

I very, very briefly flirted with the whole joining a support group thing. I went to a meeting for married gay/bi guys. It was one of the saddest gatherings I have ever attended. There was so much suffering going on. I sat the entire evening listening to guys spill their guts about how locked in they felt, how much they wanted to be themselves to their fullest potential, etc. Some had even brought along their respective husband or wife, who just sat their nodding and listening. The whole thing was so unbelievably painful to witness that I practically swore on the spot NEVER EVER to compromise like that. So in a sense it was pretty cathartic for me. Just talking does not alleviate the pressure enough for me - on the contrary, it just makes me focus on the stuff I DON'T have but DO want!

Just talking about being bi etc. needn't necessarily work for everyone. The thing is, it's necessary for one to identify what one is looking for/wants/needs and to then see if there isn't an alternative. In the instance of my two bi friends that I mentioned in my previous post, they're both bi-affectional...emotional intimacy is a greater need than sexual intimacy. So, through being able to share deeply about ourselves and our journeys etc., there is an aspect of emotional intimacy and/or male bonding which means that, much as there's no physical contact taking place, to some degree, their needs are being met through our friendship.

I can completely confirm that I was even scared to have close relationships with my male friends as I was growing up, because I thought they might look at me as a freak. Even today I have very few close friends. I always felt isolated and lonely because I honestly believed there was absolutely no-one out there as weird as me.

I can soooooooooo relate with this because I shut men out of my life. It was so bad that if I was in the company of men, I'd flee...though this reaction of mine came from other places. Being bi has blessed me in a lot of ways, one of them being that I am now able to relate with men with complete ease. I hope that your being aware that you aren't the only one grappling with what you have, is helping you to open up more and more to men.

Yup, which was the point I took the bull by the horns and decided to find out just exactly what sex with a man was like. I just needed to know what I had been missing. Had been too spineless to try out anything as a teenager and this was compounded by the fact that I consciously chose NOT to have close friends. When I finally DID have sex with a man, I was so happy that I actually cried. It was the very first time in my life that I actually felt whole and at peace.

Quit being so hard on yourself. You weren't being spineless, you did the best that you could do considering the circumstances. Period. Once again, human nature was at play.

I need to warn you that what I say from here onwards is pure hypothesis:
A substantial amount of bi men are homo and biphobic. There are those who ascribe to an approach of "I am straight...I just like to play with other men" and sometimes the approach of, "labels are meaningless" comes from the fear of being forced to claim the bi label because of what it implies. To a large degree, this fear stems from what being bi says about the individual.

This is where human nature is at play. Going back to gender roles and how as a man, we tend to be protectors, the one emotion that disempowers us is fear...because if I am afraid of something, then I don't have power or control over it...which means that I cannot protect. We tend to respond in one of two ways: Either we become angry...because aggression makes us feel powerful and in control or else we bolt for the hills. The easiest way to hurt a man would be to harm his wife, his man/hubby and/or kids...and that's because we aren't able to protect them.

My suggestion is that you have a look at the patterns that I presented in my previous post as well as your own journey and try to identify the degree to which fear came into play. I think that it will help you with your self understanding and enable you to reconcile things to yourself. :wink:

 

[Fnord]

Thanks Biguy2738,
you have given me quite a bit to think about. I truly appreciate your thoughts!

 

[B_aussie8in]

I've been an erotic masseur for 25 years all over the country. I have had thousands of married bisexual clients over the years and I could count on 2 hands the ones who told me they were open with their wives. I think more would tell, but most women are not psychologically able to handle it unless they are young and have grown up in the much more sexually free under 25'er generation. I would venture to say that bisexual men have made up about 3/4th's of my clients over the years and gays only 25%. What is surprising to me are the guys who wait till they are anywhere from 40 to 70 to try their first time bi.

i think the reason most women dont like it is because they dont want to share, none in reality does. if you honestly care about someone you'd wanna be there only lover. you dont want them having a bf or gf on the side. If thats the case why bother being in a relationship.

 

[biguy2738]

i think the reason most women dont like it is because they dont want to share, none in reality does.

REALLY?!! ....and this is based on....?

What makes you the expert? It can be likened to never leaving the borders of one's country, yet deciding on what the rest of the world looks like and dictating how the rest of the world ought to live.

if you honestly care about someone you'd wanna be there only lover. you dont want them having a bf or gf on the side. If thats the case why bother being in a relationship.

Same questions as above.

It's a scream actually....how someone attempts to be a relationship expert when their interpersonal relationships are like Men's Health Magazine....SOOOOOOOOOOOOO MANY ISSUES...though at least Men's Health is constructive.

You may want to clean the cobwebs out of your house before you point out the cobwebs in the houses of others....