Actually, "The Rich" Don't Create Jobs

[D_JuanAFock]

All I see in this thread is a lot of simplifying. Things arent as simple as supply and demand or even supply creates demand. These are simple phrases that are made to attempt to make everything easier to understand. If it were actually that simple, then we wouldnt have people going to college to learn it.

I mean there is a LOT to everything in regards to jobs. Demand creates jobs, but what creates demand? Marketing and having the money to buy it. Well, how do you get money? By having a job. How do you get a job? You go to a business. How is there a business to give you a job? They have something that people wanted. There is more to it than this, but its just another simple breakdown... I mean I could throw in the entire creation process, how the business actually began, the funding of the business, etc....

 

[B_crackoff]

I did - briefly - and I still feel unclean... :crazy2: :wink:

I still have an emphemeral hand in some marketing - high end - ideas busting stuff - from people who know that I can either come up with a good idea - or inspire them - somehow to come up with a better one. I don't sell

I literally cringe at one idea & strapline I wrote as a joke that they turned into a small poster campaign, in highly visible places.

It got banned. They got lots of free publicity & orders, & were very happy.

Was there a demand to be offended, or did my supply create the demand? We'll never know!

 

[midlifebear]

For those of you who appear to know everything, yet continue to blather about product need, capital finance, business niches and other silly stuff, allow me to direct you to the phenomenon called "The Pet Rock." Doubtless, most of you are too young to remember or know of this marketing craze. But it was real. It was stupid. And it generated a fuck load of cash.

See: Pet Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe one of you can come up with something equally successful, possibly The Pet Glass of Water?

 

[phillyhangin]

For those of you who appear to know everything, yet continue to blather about product need, capital finance, business niches and other silly stuff, allow me to direct you to the phenomenon called "The Pet Rock." Doubtless, most of you are too young to remember or know of this marketing craze. But it was real. It was stupid. And it generated a fuck load of cash.

Oh, I remember those - I think my mother even bought me one. From what I recall, it just sat on the shelf collecting dust until it got "lost." :wink: Which just goes to show that with the right marketing campaign, people will buy just about anything - even the patently useless! (Talk about a manufactured demand!)

The "Pet Glass of Water" is actually a better idea because it's interactive: You have to "feed" it daily with water or it'll die (evaporate). This gives people a sense of making a difference, appeals to their nurturing instinct. Now, if we make some glasses with cute faces on them, price 'em at $9.95, do a deal with the Home Shopping Network...INSTANT RICHES! :wink:

 

[B_starinvestor]

Brilliant suggestion.

Bill Gates
Warren Buffett
Steve Jobs
Henry Ford

These 'rich' guys never created any jobs.

Summon the poor people to conjur up healthy employment numbers and keep the economy cooking.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Brilliant suggestion.

Bill Gates
Warren Buffett
Steve Jobs
Henry Ford

These 'rich' guys never created any jobs.

Summon the poor people to conjur up healthy employment numbers and keep the economy cooking.

Oh gee... look what the cat dragged in?
Why don't we educate the lower & middle people and teach them how to create their own small businesses? I can name at least one of the men (if not three) you listed in your facetious comment that would support that idea. Or do you think an entire country needs to hope and pray that 1% of the population concocts another money making idea, therefore creating more underpaying jobs not for the benefit of the country but for their own money grubbing interests?

 

[B_starinvestor]

Oh gee... look what the cat dragged in?
Why don't we educate the lower & middle people and teach them how to create their own small businesses?

Because for the most part, the lower and middle class don't have the inclination or interest in creating their own business. I wish they did. However, it is EASY to 'create' or 'start' a business. The fact is, most people don't have the drive, stamina, patience and discipline to execute and sustain a business. The few that do succeed - get punished and blasted with taxes and social program expenses to pay for everybody that didn't have the courage, time, expertise or drive to make it work.

I can name at least one of the men (if not three) you listed in your facetious comment that would support that idea. Or do you think an entire country needs to hope and pray that 1% of the population concocts another money making idea, therefore creating more underpaying jobs not for the benefit of the country but for their own money grubbing interests?

Why don't all these brilliant middle class folk that you constantly defend and champion around - get $300 together and create an LLC and do something, instead of standing around whining about how they never have an opportunity in this evil, capitalist empire?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Because for the most part, the lower and middle class don't have the inclination or interest in creating their own business. I wish they did. However, it is EASY to 'create' or 'start' a business. The fact is, most people don't have the drive, stamina, patience and discipline to execute and sustain a business. The few that do succeed - get punished and blasted with taxes and social program expenses to pay for everybody that didn't have the courage, time, expertise or drive to make it work.

Most people don't have the drive because they're not aware of the process. Hence why I said educating the ones who are interested are the key. Introductory business classes are already taught on an Adult Education level (I took a few at NYU myself and it wasn't terribly expensive), however, if these things were taught as early as high school as electives you'd be able to start nurturing newer generations with the tools necessary to get one started and become successful. Community centers in poor areas can also play a part by teaming up with junior level & state colleges to not only provide the knowledge, but to help them with other necessities that would hinder those from seeking it such as day/night care for their children while they attend classes. You know, that's if you want to actually brainstorm a possible idea to solve our nation's problems and not simply talk shit and agitate your political adversaries.

On top of this, if you're a small business owner or someone who works for a corporate entity you're going to have to deal with taxes and social program expenses so that is not an excuse to ignore a worthy possibility to spur on job creation and economic growth.

Why don't all these brilliant middle class folk that you constantly defend and champion around - get $300 together and create an LLC and do something, instead of standing around whining about how they never have an opportunity in this evil, capitalist empire?

You're talking to someone who incorporated his own digital record label 5 years ago (and it's still operating and releasing music), and is partnered with a man who started his own medical practice as well. A number of my friends who I've worked with in the music industry have also seen what is possible and are looking to start their own businesses themselves. Also, after 2 decades of working in the computer tech world I know and collaborate with LOTS of independent contractors and freelancers who work as a "DBA" and make enough money to support themselves and their families (which are much more realistic benchmarks for personal success and not the Forbes List), so spare me your sarcasm. Yet despite our successes we can still see that a major part of the problem with job creation can be solved by supplying people who are either not aware or too afraid to take the first step with the necessary information to become small business owners.

Also, don't even begin to bring up big, "scary" political buzzwords like Capitalism in this discussion until you can acknowledge that our own financial & economic system isn't 100% capitalistic in practice. Whether it be through tax cuts for the richest people or through entitlement programs that help the poor, there are also socialistic measures in play that benefit a specific demographic of people. You can't use buzzword terminology against me as your rhetorical shield against the facts so stop being lazy, do some real research and get another plan.

Ultimately, if you think we have to wait until the richest 1% get enough tax breaks and incentives to create jobs out of "goodwill" on our shores, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Oh wait... we already are!

 

[B_starinvestor]

Most people don't have the drive because they're not aware of the process.

whose fault is that? Is it my responsibility to go pick these people up and drive them to a school or drop off a book into their lap? Nobody takes any responsibility, just GIMME GIMME GIMME. Gimme some of yours, gimme some of his.

Hence why I said educating the ones who are interested are the key. Introductory business classes are already taught on an Adult Education level (I took a few at NYU myself and it wasn't terribly expensive), however, if these things were taught as early as high school as electives you'd be able to start nurturing newer generations with the tools necessary to get one started and become successful. Community centers in poor areas can also play a part by teaming up with junior level & state colleges to not only provide the knowledge, but to help them with other necessities that would hinder those from seeking it such as day/night care for their children while they attend classes. You know, that's if you want to actually brainstorm a possible idea to solve our nation's problems and not simply talk shit and agitate your political adversaries.

WHY CAN'T THEY GET OFF OF THEIR ASSES AND GO GET EDUCATED?

On top of this, if you're a small business owner or someone who works for a corporate entity you're going to have to deal with taxes and social program expenses so that is not an excuse to ignore a worthy possibility to spur on job creation and economic growth.

I'm not suggesting that those programs be ignored.

You're talking to someone who incorporated his own digital record label 5 years ago (and it's still operating and releasing music), and is partnered with a man who started his own medical practice as well. A number of my friends who I've worked with in the music industry have also seen what is possible and are looking to start their own businesses themselves. Also, after 2 decades of working in the computer tech world I know and collaborate with LOTS of independent contractors and freelancers who work as a "DBA" and make enough money to support themselves and their families (which are much more realistic benchmarks for personal success and not the Forbes List), so spare me your sarcasm. Yet despite our successes we can still see that a major part of the problem with job creation can be solved by supplying people who are either not aware or too afraid to take the first step with the necessary information to become small business owners.

Once again, you want to suggest that these people are capable of running a business and creating jobs; yet they aren't capable of walking their lazy asses to the library (which is FREE) and reading about anything such as starting a business. Instead, they need somebody to go pull them out of their recliner and take them to adult education classes.

It is a ridiculous suggestion. Absolutely no chance of these types of people running a business or creating jobs.

Also, don't even begin to bring up big, "scary" political buzzwords like Capitalism in this discussion until you can acknowledge that our own financial & economic system isn't 100% capitalistic in practice. Whether it be through tax cuts for the richest people or through entitlement programs that help the poor, there are also socialistic measures in play that benefit a specific demographic of people. You can't use buzzword terminology against me as your rhetorical shield against the facts so stop being lazy, do some real research and get another plan.

I do acknowledge that it has too much socialism. $2.2 trillion per year on entitlement spending. Makes me want to puke.

Ultimately, if you think we have to wait until the richest 1% get enough tax breaks and incentives to create jobs out of "goodwill" on our shores, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Oh wait... we already are!

The machine that creates jobs is profitability and growth of a business. Pure and simple.

Tax it to death. And then wonder why it can't hire more workers.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

whose fault is that? Is it my responsibility to go pick these people up and drive them to a school or drop off a book into their lap? Nobody takes any responsibility, just GIMME GIMME GIMME. Gimme some of yours, gimme some of his.

First off, nobody is actually asking you for anything, so stop clenching onto your wallet like a timid grandma walking through the ghetto. Truth be told, it's not your responsibility. However, when people poise these kinds of questions to our government and some legislators actually listen and propose solutions to help the poor and working class to get more motivated, people like you whine, bitch and moan about how such programs are "wasteful spending", how it's "socialism", how it "goes against "Capitalism", and how "the poor is lazy and want to suck off the government's tit". Then you're dumb enough to put people in power to vote against it, thinking you've won the battle when in reality you've perpetuated the problem.

Sadly, you'll never come to grips with this because you're so sure that what you perceive as reality applies to every single person out there, even though everyone's reality differs from one another and humans are born into a system of societal and economical inequality. But I'm not surprised, as your ranting and raving on this thread embraces that theory wholehearted.

WHY CAN'T THEY GET OFF OF THEIR ASSES AND GO GET EDUCATED?

Case... in... point.
This exposes a lot of your own insecurities, fears, bigotries, greed and selfishness. I hope you recognize that, and realize that is one of the main reasons why very few people respect you on this board.

Once again, you want to suggest that these people are capable of running a business and creating jobs; yet they aren't capable of walking their lazy asses to the library (which is FREE) and reading about anything such as starting a business.

This is more proof that you really have NO DAMN CLUE as to how people financially beneath you have to work much harder than you'd ever have to in your life in order to make things happen for themselves. First off, you have no substantial proof of the so-called "laziness" of poor & working class people beyond your own slanted beliefs and bigotries. Those are not facts and will not be accepted as a form of valid reasoning for your argument. If you expect me (or anyone else to take you seriously, you'll refrain from spewing such inane bullshit and get serious for once in your damn life on LPSG.

As for your library excuse? Let's look at the Census. As of 2008, there were 9,221 public libraries in America, with 7,469 being single outlet and 1,752 being multiple outlet. Divided by 50 states, we get a rough average of 184 libraries per state. - http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s1152.pdf

Now consider US State Populations - List of U.S. states and territories by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if we took the state with the lowest population (Wyoming) and did the math, you have roughly 3,000 people per library to pander to. In states like California, New York, Texas and others the ratio is much larger and resources are more disproportionate. Many libraries are unobtainable by the general public since they are part of a school or university that doesn't open their doors to people who don't attend. And let's not even talk about how the conditions or lack of modernization of reading and research materials in the establishments that are free to the public (thanks to people like you and the politicians you support since important resources to enhance a state's infrastructure are always on the chopping block with your so-called "fiscally conservative" budget proposals that do nothing but take from the poor and give more to the rich), or the actual amount of books available at each library that focus on the subject of starting their own business.

I could go on, but since I know you don't give a shit I won't waste my time. This is more than enough to convince others (once again) that you don't know what you're talking about.

Instead, they need somebody to go pull them out of their recliner and take them to adult education classes. It is a ridiculous suggestion. Absolutely no chance of these types of people running a business or creating jobs.

You really are pathetic.

I do acknowledge that it has too much socialism. $2.2 trillion per year on entitlement spending. Makes me want to puke.

Go ahead and puke then. I'm sure you either don't know (or don't care to know) that much of the deficit is due to money that is actually owed to people who contributed to entitlement programs such as MEDICARE and SOCIAL SECURITY. Our legislators continually borrowed money from these funds to pay for other things over several administrations. And yet, here you are thinking that people aren't entitled to the money they invest out of their own paychecks for their future and have the audacity & sheer ignorance to label people who demand what they deserve from their government as "lazy".

I said it once, and I'll say it again. You really are pathetic.

 

[deleted213967]

The machine that creates jobs is profitability and growth of a business. Pure and simple.

Tax it to death. And then wonder why it can't hire more workers.

While I find your characterization a bit harsh, I command you for having the audacity to hold a contrarian view in a forum long hijacked by a phalanx of shrill radical left agitators, who spend more time here vomiting on the 95% of the population to the right of them, than tending to productive activities.

You do seem to agree that government and business community can (and should) team up to foster entrepreneurship wherever there is an untapped potential, including in poorer areas.

For all the hype about unemployment and underemployment, the supply of labor is indeed tragically lacking in some trades, many of which require no higher education. When such market imbalances exist, I would advocate a more active role for the government, which in an ideal world should look after the general interest.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

While I find your characterization a bit harsh, I command you for having the audacity to hold a contrarian view in a forum long hijacked by a phalanx of shrill radical left agitators, who spend more time here vomiting on the 95% of the population to the right of them, than tending to productive activities.

The thread was actually fine, even with the heated discussion since starinvestor and I tend to spar off around here. Alas, you're not bring anything of value to this thread except a disingenuous front of "playing the middle". Doesn't matter how many times you say it, I'm about as "extreme" as you are relevant.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Here's more reasons why we should be focused on educating and pushing the working class to look into developing a small business: Office of Advocacy - Frequently Asked Questions - How important are small businesses to the U.S. economy? | SBA.gov

1. Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
2. Employ just over half of all private sector employees.
3. Pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
4. Have generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years.
5. Create more than half of the nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).
6. Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer programmers).
7. Are 52 percent home-based and 2 percent franchises.
8. Made up 97.3 percent of all identified exporters and produced 30.2 percent of the known export value in FY 2007.
9. Produce 13 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms; these patents are twice as likely as large firm patents to be among the one percent most cited

The Census also has interesting statistics as well, and also adds more support towards the idea of developing more small businesses. Statistics about Small Business from the Census Bureau

Given the numbers, it appears that the poor & middle class isn't as "lazy" as some misguided corporate shrills tend to be. Anyone still thinking we should wait on Wal*Mart to put up a "Help Wanted" sign? And does this seem like such an "extreme idea"?

 

[B_starinvestor]

Here's more reasons why we should be focused on educating and pushing the working class to look into developing a small business: Office of Advocacy - Frequently Asked Questions - How important are small businesses to the U.S. economy? | SBA.gov

1. Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
2. Employ just over half of all private sector employees.
3. Pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
4. Have generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years.
5. Create more than half of the nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).
6. Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer programmers).
7. Are 52 percent home-based and 2 percent franchises.
8. Made up 97.3 percent of all identified exporters and produced 30.2 percent of the known export value in FY 2007.
9. Produce 13 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms; these patents are twice as likely as large firm patents to be among the one percent most cited

The Census also has interesting statistics as well, and also adds more support towards the idea of developing more small businesses. Statistics about Small Business from the Census Bureau

Given the numbers, it appears that the poor & middle class isn't as "lazy" as some misguided corporate shrills tend to be. Anyone still thinking we should wait on Wal*Mart to put up a "Help Wanted" sign? And does this seem like such an "extreme idea"?

Nobody is arguing these points - that small businesses are crucial to economic health in the U.S. But you aren't going to mobilize the unskilled and unmotivated to start creating jobs by offering some night classes and passing out flyers.

People have to have the motivation and put in the effort. Your plan, VB, will maybe add 0.00000001 to the national employment numbers.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Nobody is arguing these points - that small businesses are crucial to economic health in the U.S. But you aren't going to mobilize the unskilled and unmotivated to start creating jobs by offering some night classes and passing out flyers.

People have to have the motivation and put in the effort. Your plan, VB, will maybe add 0.00000001 to the national employment numbers.

Here's your problem.
You already have it set in your mind that the people who should be focused on are lazy and unmotivated. You come into this argument with a bigoted and judgmental mindset, and not an objective one that understands the few bums you see walking around your neighborhood doing nothing is not a representation of every single poor & middle class person. Because of that, you have no substantial basis to discredit my argument. That is, unless, you expect everyone to believe you since you're a "starinvestor", therefore validating your discriminatory views on default.

I come from the ranks of the very people you continually put down, and despite where I am now I've never forgotten where I came from. Put aside the prejudiced bullshit and meet me head on. If you can't get past this negative "poor people are lazy" attitude, then don't even bother wasting your time hitting the quote button and responding to this post or any others that I make in this thread.

 

[nudeyorker]

VinylBoy I'm going to read the thread again because maybe I missed something or perhaps I'm looking at this from a different perspective but I don't think starinvestor is calling any one group or class lazy or unmotivated. I agree with much of what both or you are saying but I don't think that most people have what it takes to run a business because they would rather go someplace for eight hours and get a paycheck and go home and not worry about it until it's time to go back back the next day.

 

[D_JuanAFock]

As for your library excuse? Let's look at the Census. As of 2008, there were 9,221 public libraries in America, with 7,469 being single outlet and 1,752 being multiple outlet. Divided by 50 states, we get a rough average of 184 libraries per state. - http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s1152.pdf

Now consider US State Populations - List of U.S. states and territories by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if we took the state with the lowest population (Wyoming) and did the math, you have roughly 3,000 people per library to pander to. In states like California, New York, Texas and others the ratio is much larger and resources are more disproportionate. Many libraries are unobtainable by the general public since they are part of a school or university that doesn't open their doors to people who don't attend. And let's not even talk about how the conditions or lack of modernization of reading and research materials in the establishments that are free to the public (thanks to people like you and the politicians you support since important resources to enhance a state's infrastructure are always on the chopping block with your so-called "fiscally conservative" budget proposals that do nothing but take from the poor and give more to the rich), or the actual amount of books available at each library that focus on the subject of starting their own business.

University/school libraries are considered public libraries now?

I have lived in a multitude of areas, and each one has always had a library I could go to that is within a reasonable driving distance. Additionally, you discount all of the other resources that are available at a library, or even at home. You dont even need to visit a library anymore as long as you have a brain and the internet. You can research anything related to creating a business online.

In regards to the "poor people are lazy" thing youre arguing about VB, nobody is saying that poor people are lazy. I think he is basically saying that the people that want to create a business already have and that realistically speaking, those that havent simply dont want to.

PS: Small business does not = low/middle class.

 

[liberalcynic]

Jobs can be created:
a) by the state as public sector jobs
b) by entrepreneurs

In theory 100% of jobs can be state jobs, as the old USSR tried (not with complete success) or today's North Korea. But the reverse isn't true - any civilised society must have some public sector jobs.

In almost every society today - certainly the UK and USA - the majority of employment is created by entrepreneurs. And if we want jobs we have to have policies which allow the entrepreneurs to do their stuff.

There is of course a debate around the level of tax on entrepreneurs that is appropriate. But this is separate from the article's thesis that "we" create jobs. Unfortunately the majority of people don't - rather the entrepreneurs do.

Nevertheless when it is too risky for the rich to risk their capital they will not employ someone and thus risk their money to increase their monies. however the state has a direct interested in having a full employed population as opposed to the rich who only care about having as much money has possible,

 

[B_VinylBoy]

VinylBoy I'm going to read the thread again because maybe I missed something or perhaps I'm looking at this from a different perspective but I don't think starinvestor is calling any one group or class lazy or unmotivated. I agree with much of what both or you are saying but I don't think that most people have what it takes to run a business because they would rather go someplace for eight hours and get a paycheck and go home and not worry about it until it's time to go back back the next day.

It's probably true that most people couldn't do it and that's fine. But considering census data and the amount of firms and businesses that currently exist that manage to grow to the point of having up to 100 employees, if we could educate and enable enough poor & middle class people to start a business and become successful it would make a difference in the communities they live.

Case in point, if we went into a city like Brooklyn, provided 10,000 people access to the necessary tools to start their own business and only 1/10th of them made it, that's still 1000 new small business that have the ability to grow and employ others. Say that 1/10th of that number did get to that point. Now we have 100 businesses that can branch out and hire other people. Cut it down by 1/10th again and maybe we get 10 that can go much further, perhaps expand their businesses to have multiple locations and hire even more people. In the end, you're still providing a few thousand people with steady work. If this happened in all of the cities and towns where many of the inhabitants are barely making a working class salary or living below the poverty line, and it can do a lot to help deal with the Unemployment problem in this country. Not only that, with all of the new businesses that would generate more cash flow and help the economy.

What continually gets to me is starinvestor's exceedingly nasty attitude towards the poor. From the outside looking in, it appears that he's one of the many who only sees success in the size of one's monetary assets and not the ability of someone to make ends meet and live comfortably. His main grievance is that these people are lazy and unmotivated, when in reality most people in these situations lack the courage since they are born into, grow up in and are surrounded by poverty at all hours of their lives. It does nothing to motivate them by treating their plights with such dismissive and simple-minded solutions such as "WHY CAN'T THEY GET OFF OF THEIR ASSES AND GO GET EDUCATED?" or "they aren't capable of walking their lazy asses to the library (which is FREE) and reading about anything such as starting a business." What good is this when the places where one could get educated or go to a library are in just as bad shape (or worse) than the domiciles the people live in?

You try telling people this, and they instantly want to act as if you're playing the victim or making lame excuses or not in touch with "reality". Meanwhile, their only solutions is to continually take away from the people who need the help in order to give more to those who have too much and hope that they are generous enough to create a handful of opportunities. With continued efforts to shut down unions, cutting down on employee benefits and doing away with minimum wage, we face a situation where big corporations will only provide underpaying entry level jobs that people cannot reasonably live off of. On top of this, the average salary offered to college graduates is on a decline. And since companies are only in it for the money and the profit they're going to continually find ways to cut and save at the expense of everyone else.

And so forth, and so forth...

 

[B_starinvestor]

What continually gets to me is starinvestor's exceedingly nasty attitude towards the poor. From the outside looking in, it appears that he's one of the many who only sees success in the size of one's monetary assets and not the ability of someone to make ends meet and live comfortably. His main grievance is that these people are lazy and unmotivated,

Not really. There is a guy who lives in and grew up in a low income part of town. He taught himself to set up electronics and stereo components; and got a job installing cable for TimeWarner. He then started picking up side jobs for timewarner customers such as setting up stereos, wiring components, etc. He got so busy that he was able to leave Timewarner and now is busy 70 hours per week. He does all my electronic/stereo work and i've referred him to a number of friends. His only problem is that he doesn't charge enough; i presume because he doesn't have a frame of reference and isn't comfortable charging yet. But he'll get there.

This guy didn't sit around in his apartment and smoke pot with his girlfriend and whine about being the wrong color or that life isn't fair. He went out there, learned a trade (at no cost) and now he's got a thriving business which is growing and he will eventually need to bring on employees to handle his workload.

This guy didnt do this because someone handed him a brochure at the community center. He had the motivation and 'want-to' to go make something productive and contribute to society in a positive manner.