Adam Lambert's AMA performance, Public Perception, & the Gay Rights Movement

[jason_els]

Iowa is an island in the midwest. It's a case of, "which of these things is not like the other," and you'll find Iowa. I've been all through the midwest and while Iowa isn't the Megalopolis corridor, I find it to be refreshingly different from its neighbors, particularly the Quad Cities. Iowa is a fluke.

One of the most beautiful scenes I've encountered happened in Iowa. The sun was low in the sky and I was driving on 80 and looked across to a farm with a huge field of silage bathed in gold light next to a red barn and an old cemetery with wrought iron fencing and gates. Next to that was a windmill. The green grass, red barn, black gates, white house, gold corn, blue sky, gray clouds, and dark brown wood of the trees was so vivid I nearly went off the road. Iowa's a good state.

 

[D_Rod Staffinbone]

i really believe that, in my lifetime, personal liberation has gotten me, and people i know, further than legislative liberation. oppressive laws need to be changed for sure, but unless we rid ourselves of the chains we have shackled ourselves with, our minds with, the laws may never change.

the "sisters or perpetual indulgence", three of whom i had the pleasure of meeting and speaking to just last year, are among the most personally liberated people i have ever met.

 

[D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse]

One of the characters Matt Lucas plays in the british show "Little Britain" is a screaming queen named Daffyd Thomas who wants to be the "only gay in the village" and is quite furious whenever he finds there are others.

His character is way out there, exaggerated, borderline offensive, often funny, wears screaming outfits, and is highly sensitive to perceived homophobic slights from neighbors and bar patrons.


I read this headline this morning:
Gay actor Sir Ian Mckellen has slammed comedian Matt Lucas for his portrayal of homosexual characters - because he fears the camp comedy sketches fuel prejudices.

I see Mckellen's point. -- In fact there may be an analogy, or correlation, between this type of performance-driven, flamboyant Matt Lucas character and the campy, "satiric", flamboyant Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, to whom we still give a pass because they've done good community works. I feel the Sisters - in their roller skates and habits and lipstick and beards and crucifixes - fuel prejudice.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjYgHhxfZGI "Only gay in the village"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3W3gwzqTY "Gay Rugby"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiOk9XPuahI "Gay Brother"


(I must say, though, I feel fairly envious that Brits can freely watch this material primetime on "network" tv. There's no way this sort of outré thing would fly here without the political right making a big stink about declining morals and various indecencies).

 

[SilverTrain]

Adam simulating oral sex onstage is a bit over the top and, I think, hurts the cause for the larger gay rights struggle. We are still fighting social cons in states with gay marriage propositions on the ballot who love to bring up the effects of the "gay lifestyle" on children. There are still Anita Byrants out there (check the right wing websites) that continue to view gays as trolling for random sex in public parks, restrooms, adult bookstores.


And it's not just Adam. The struggle for gay equality is not going to be derailed by a cheesy AMA performance. I'm trying to get at something deeper and larger than Adam Lambert. We need to modify our public displays of (perceived) lewdness -- whether at the Pride parades or Award shows -- until equality gains full momentum.

The blue bits seem to contradict a bit.

And the red bit is a serious statement. Do you really mean that?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Gay actor Sir Ian Mckellen has slammed comedian Matt Lucas for his portrayal of homosexual characters - because he fears the camp comedy sketches fuel prejudices.

I don't know of a single gay man who was actually offended by those Little Britain sketches. We all knew they were nothing more than parody based on exaggerated gay stereotypes and found them to be hysterical. Ian Mckellen, IMO, is just overreacting to the situation because it doesn't actually fuel anything. I'm sure no "undecided" person would watch Matt Lucas do these routines and ultimately decide to hate gay people. Just the fact that there are gay sketches in Little Britain is enough to scare away homophobes.

You can't be worried about our perception in the eyes of people who will never accept you to begin with. Some people are going to hate you regardless of how you try to prove you're just like them.

 

[Industrialsize]

One of the characters Matt Lucas plays in the british show "Little Britain" is a screaming queen named Daffyd Thomas who wants to be the "only gay in the village" and is quite furious whenever he finds there are others.

His character is way out there, exaggerated, borderline offensive, often funny, wears screaming outfits, and is highly sensitive to perceived homophobic slights from neighbors and bar patrons.


I read this headline this morning:
Gay actor Sir Ian Mckellen has slammed comedian Matt Lucas for his portrayal of homosexual characters - because he fears the camp comedy sketches fuel prejudices.

I see Mckellen's point. -- In fact there may be an analogy, or correlation, between this type of performance-driven, flamboyant Matt Lucas character and the campy, "satiric", flamboyant Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, to whom we still give a pass because they've done good community works. I feel the Sisters - in their roller skates and habits and lipstick and beards and crucifixes - fuel prejudice.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjYgHhxfZGI "Only gay in the village"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3W3gwzqTY "Gay Rugby"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiOk9XPuahI "Gay Brother"


(I must say, though, I feel fairly envious that Brits can freely watch this material primetime on "network" tv. There's no way this sort of outré thing would fly here without the political right making a big stink about declining morals and various indecencies).

There was a similar brouhaha back when the show "In Living Color" was on and their sketches, Men on Film. Some people cried "STEREOTYPES!" while the rest of us were on the floor crying because we were laughing so hard and thought they were so damn funny.
They still are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK-VVzh4oRQ

 

[Bbucko]

And the red bit is a serious statement. Do you really mean that?

That is what this thread is really all about: he meant every word.

 

[D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse]

SilverTrain & VinylBoy, I am just voicing on this thread an inner dialogue that's been going on in my head lately. I'm conflicted about the more outre aspects of gay public life, something Adam Lambert seemed to briefly personify for a few minutes last week, something the screaming Sisters personify, the asses coming through chaps at the Pride parades (this reference is mostly dated), bathhouses, Perez Hilton, "Queer Studies" at the university (instead of normal Gay History) etc.

But, you guys may be right. If we were all as "assimilated" and acculturated and conformist as Mr. & Ms. Jones in the suburbs, with the adopted kids and going to "Bed Bath & Beyond" and Little League, the religious right probably still wouldn't accept us.

 

[midlifebear]

Darling WT, the religious right is truly a corruption of humanity at its worst pretending to be its best. One should never consider the religious right as anything but a perversion of what it means to be human. And we certainly should not play politically correct about a die hard perverted aspect of society hell bent on killing or out breeding anything it considers offensive.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

You can't be worried about our perception in the eyes of people who will never accept you to begin with. Some people are going to hate you regardless of how you try to prove you're just like them.

The mainstream is the dominant culture. It sets the laws and the mores. If you aren't accepted by it, then you'll remain subordinate... less rights, less respect, less advantages. Are you OK with that?

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

I think it's exactly the same as Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction": a celebrity using shock value to gain publicity. The proper response is to ignore the PR stunt and not buy what the person is selling, but that's too much to hope for.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

I don't think it is about gay rights. As a str8 man some gay people would prevent me from contributing to this discussion. In this case it seems to be about self indulgent rights. It isn't their sexuality it is their id that is pulling the strings. Just act like adults and know when to stop throwing a tantrum.

 

[HUNGHUGE11X7]

ADAM LAMBERT is a rock star , an amazing vocalist and OUT ! He is not a politician running for office and he is not trying to be a beacon for homosexual equality. ADAM is doing what he LOVES and does best performing his heart out . This whole thing is so fukin ridiculous and amounts to nothing other than Right-wing HOMOPHOBIA !
This performance was on at nearly 11 PM and at that time everything he did was quite acceptable, I have seen much racier stuff from programs earlier in the evening.
SPEARS, JACKSON and others do stuff like this all the time and they dont get this bullshit.It was NOT a pr stunt or any other such nonsense, it was an impassioned performer caught up in the moment of his singing and as many artists are know to do he improvised. Had he been a straight male singer who did the same thing we would have heard NOTHING more about it
Like ROD STEWART said when asked what he thought about ADAM's antics "THAT'S ROCK & ROLL" Enough said !


HH

 

[Flashy]

ADAM LAMBERT is a rock star , an amazing vocalist and OUT ! He is not a politician running for office and he is not trying to be a beacon for homosexual equality. ADAM is doing what he LOVES and does best performing his heart out . This whole thing is so fukin ridiculous and amounts to nothing other than Right-wing HOMOPHOBIA !
This performance was on at nearly 11 PM and at that time everything he did was quite acceptable, I have seen much racier stuff from programs earlier in the evening.
SPEARS, JACKSON and others do stuff like this all the time and they dont get this bullshit.It was NOT a pr stunt or any other such nonsense, it was an impassioned performer caught up in the moment of his singing and as many artists are know to do he improvised. Had he been a straight male singer who did the same thing we would have heard NOTHING more about it
Like ROD STEWART said when asked what he thought about ADAM's antics "THAT'S ROCK & ROLL" Enough said !


HH

Jimmy Page is a rockstar.
Robert Plant is a rockstar.
Mick Jagger is a rockstar.

Madame Glambert, is a pop personality...not a rockstar.

and it was, in fact, a PR stunt to sell records...as evidenced by the fact he did it right before his album came out, and he is now on every single possible talk outlet discussing the "incident".

if it was not a PR stunt, why did he not get so "Carried away" in his, what, 20+ song performances on the American Idol Show?

seems to me an "impassioned performer" would have been overwhelmed by the moment on the Idol show, and jammed somone's face in their crotch...except he restricted his "passion" because he knew that would likely cause an uproar that would have knocked him out of that karaoke show.

strange, his passion then took over a couple of days before his album went on sale

thankfully, enough people have seen through it, as his album only sold 196,000 copies the first week.

even Clay Aiken more than tripled those sales in his first week for his first album (613,000 copies)

Lame PR stunt.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

The mainstream is the dominant culture. It sets the laws and the mores. If you aren't accepted by it, then you'll remain subordinate... less rights, less respect, less advantages. Are you OK with that?

I don't fully agree with this.
I was born homosexual and minority... two things that automatically spark "less respect" and "less advantages" in the minds of many people in the mainstream. It's already in my nature to work harder than most to get what I want because I'm not expecting anyone in the mainstream to blindly accept a black, gay man who listens to techno as one of their own... especially when the forces that be paint images of minorities being the problem with our nation, and that homosexuality is an abomination. Of course, I can always put away the music and pretend to like whatever is on the chart for this week... and if I was more desperate for acceptance I could go back in a closet and pretend to be heterosexual. But one thing I can't pretend not to be is a minority. There aren't enough suits, or $5 words I can conjure up to change that fact. So why even go through the pains of trying to "fit in", sacrificing the few small things that make me happy in the process, when the fact I was born a minority will automatically keep me out of their circle? If these people are that blinded by their discriminative beliefs just so they can obtain acceptance, then I don't need their advantages or their respect.

As more people in our society wake up from the seemingly eternal slumber that is the "mainstream", we get more momentum towards passing laws granting the few rights we don't get as gay & lesbian people. We all know it's going to happen, and I'm willing to ride the storm as I always had. To suggest that the mainstream sets all the standards would mean that it was the mainstream that eventually said it was not right to have slaves, or to deny women the right to vote, or to even deny equal rights to black people. None of the Civil Rights acts were left to the people (aka the mainstream) to decide. They were passed in the House & Senate just like any other bill. As much as we would like to believe that the government always does things that represent the "voice of the people", we all know that in many cases politicians do whatever they please to benefit their constituents. That's why we need to continue focusing our attention on what goes on in our government instead of convincing your next door neighbor that what you do is perfectly fine and acceptable. Because it only takes a majority vote in Congress to get a civil rights bill passed... and they're the furthest thing from mainstream we can get. :wink:

 

[B_VinylBoy]

even Clay Aiken more than tripled those sales in his first week for his first album (613,000 copies)

Lame PR stunt.

It's not that simple, Flashmeister.
Clay Aiken, just like Adam Lambert, was a runner-up in American Idol. Both are gay men. The only difference is that Clay Aiken hid his sexuality from public view even though everyone knew that he was. He actually had teenage girls convinced that he was straight, to the point that "fans" would get into fights over it. Plus, he had a more commercial look than Ruben Studdard who actually did win the competition. But what happened as soon as Clay Aiken announced that he was gay? Record sales plummeted... his videos were no longer played... no more highly publicized concert tours. He's scheduled to make an album in 2010, however, I'm sure the legions of screaming women he once had will not be there. Plus, he was so adamant in keeping his sexuality a secret that he's received somewhat of a backlash in the gay community as well.

Also, there's a little thing called the "record store" that was still in existence back when Clay Aiken was doing the American Idol circuit. Overall, CD sales were much greater in 2003 than they are right now. Between '05 and '08, the number of CD sales dropped by over 20% while the number of digital downloads increased by 23%.

http://beatcrave.com/2009-04-27/recording-industry-releases-2008-sales-statistics/
http://76.74.24.142/1D212C0E-408B-F730-65A0-C0F5871C369D.pdf

I'm not sure if you've noticed this, but the choices one has to actually buy a full album are few and far between compared to what we once had. There are no more Virgin Megastores, Tower Records, or any major outlets that focus solely on music to turn to. Amazon, Best Buy & Starbucks do not cut it. These days, most people are willing to actually buy the singles they want from an album via download and bypass the rest. Being that individual downloads are now the more accepted format of choice for consumers, the standards for sales have also changed. According to Billboard Magazine, a single received certified Gold status after it achieves 100,000 paid downloads and certified Platinum for 200,000. It's expected that singles, given the access to them, are going to sell more frequently than ful length albums these days.

Besides... we have to also consider that the allure that is "American Idol" is fading. Even with the controversy, Adam still outsold the winner Chris Allen who debut album sold a disappointing 80,000 in its first week, the weakest debut of any “Idol” winner. In the end, who cares... it's all about Susan Boyle anyhow!! :biggrin1:

 

[Flashy]

It's not that simple, Flashmeister.
Clay Aiken, just like Adam Lambert, was a runner-up in American Idol. Both are gay men. The only difference is that Clay Aiken hid his sexuality from public view even though everyone knew that he was. He actually had teenage girls convinced that he was straight, to the point that "fans" would get into fights over it. Plus, he had a more commercial look than Ruben Studdard who actually did win the competition. But what happened as soon as Clay Aiken announced that he was gay? Record sales plummeted... his videos were no longer played... no more highly publicized concert tours. He's scheduled to make an album in 2010, however, I'm sure the legions of screaming women he once had will not be there. Plus, he was so adamant in keeping his sexuality a secret that he's received somewhat of a backlash in the gay community as well.

Also, there's a little thing called the "record store" that was still in existence back when Clay Aiken was doing the American Idol circuit. Overall, CD sales were much greater in 2003 than they are right now. Between '05 and '08, the number of CD sales dropped by over 20% while the number of digital downloads increased by 23%.

Recording Industry Releases 2008 Sales Statistics
http://76.74.24.142/1D212C0E-408B-F730-65A0-C0F5871C369D.pdf

I'm not sure if you've noticed this, but the choices one has to actually buy a full album are few and far between compared to what we once had. There are no more Virgin Megastores, Tower Records, or any major outlets that focus solely on music to turn to. Amazon, Best Buy & Starbucks do not cut it. These days, most people are willing to actually buy the singles they want from an album via download and bypass the rest. Being that individual downloads are now the more accepted format of choice for consumers, the standards for sales have also changed. According to Billboard Magazine, a single received certified Gold status after it achieves 100,000 paid downloads and certified Platinum for 200,000. It's expected that singles, given the access to them, are going to sell more frequently than ful length albums these days.

Besides... we have to also consider that the allure that is "American Idol" is fading. Even with the controversy, Adam still outsold the winner Chris Allen who debut album sold a disappointing 80,000 in its first week, the weakest debut of any “Idol” winner. In the end, who cares... it's all about Susan Boyle anyhow!! :biggrin1:

well, to be perfectly frank, VB, i did not even know who Clay Aiken was up until about a year ago...nor did i know he was gay up until about the same time since none of the american idol folks offer a brand of music i enjoy.

as for the fading "allure" of american idol, well i consider myself one of those who has never fallen under the spell of a glorified Karaoke Contest :smile:


that being said, his album sales, despite your on-point description of the fading record store (and record companies) of old (not to mention the music industry as a whole in terms of sales and quality IMO) were still prett unimpressive...

and i still believe the whole thing was a pretty lame stunt.

on a personal note, i have to say that i honestly cannot remember the last time i actually purchased any music...i pretty much shut things down around 1998-2000 or so...simply not anything that really interests me these days in music. there are a couple of decent bands around, but on the whole industry has become a depressing mess of crap... IMO

 

[B_VinylBoy]

well, to be perfectly frank, VB, i did not even know who Clay Aiken was up until about a year ago...

Consider yourself lucky. :biggrin1:

nor did i know he was gay up until about the same time since none of the american idol folks offer a brand of music i enjoy.

Point taken. The show only does pander to the average teenage/young adult pop music fan. Being a DJ, I can't help but hear about all of this stuff.

as for the fading "allure" of american idol, well i consider myself one of those who has never fallen under the spell of a glorified Karaoke Contest :smile:

It does have moments where it becomes just like that. Very few of the people who actually won the contest became successful in any real shape or form. The only real notable exceptions are Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Jennifer Hudson (who didn't even win the whole contest) and Chris Daughtry (ditto). Jordin Sparks, Kimberly Locke, Constantine Maroulis and Fantasia Barrino are also a few that have had some marginal success post "Idol".

that being said, his album sales, despite your on-point description of the fading record store (and record companies) of old (not to mention the music industry as a whole in terms of sales and quality IMO) were still prett unimpressive...

And most album sales, given the way most consumers purchase music these days, are always going to look pale in comparison to the days of old. I doubt that we will ever see another album that goes multi-platinum over like The Eagles "Greatest Hits", Fleetwood Mac's "Rumors" or even Michael Jackson's "Thriller"

and i still believe the whole thing was a pretty lame stunt.

Well, just about every attempt made to shock and surprise always manages to fall short to some degree. Even the Madonna/Britney lesbian kiss, or even the Michael Jackson/Lisa Marie Presley lesbian kiss as well. Joke intended. :biggrin:

on a personal note, i have to say that i honestly cannot remember the last time i actually purchased any music...i pretty much shut things down around 1998-2000 or so...simply not anything that really interests me these days in music. there are a couple of decent bands around, but on the whole industry has become a depressing mess of crap... IMO

I gave up on mainstream sources for music as soon as I left college in '97. After being involved with a college radio station for 6 years, my eyes were opened to so many good musicians and groups that never achieved mainstream success. Before college, I was happy to listen to commercial radio and accepted that certain acts were number one because a record from them would play every hour on the hour. That is, until I learned everything on these stations are controlled to the very second and the personalities themselves didn't even select the songs they played. I always look for imports, overseas radio streams, and occasionally dig through CD Baby to see what some of the independent musicians are doing. For televised stuff, Ovation and VH-1 Classic occasionally shows some great stuff. One of the networks aired a rare concert of The Doors where they didn't even perform any of their usual hits. I wish I recorded it because it was amazing!

Once in a blue moon, just for giggles, I tune into MTV or VH1 to see what the regular folks are listening to. Occasionally even they get something right... like Adele or The Temper Trap for instance.

 

[deleted15807]

Rupert Evert has something interesting to say on the controversy:

"The fact is that you could not be, and still cannot be, a 25-year-old homosexual trying to make it in the British film business or the American film business or even the Italian film business," Everett, 50, says. "It just doesn't work and you're going to hit a brick wall at some point. You're going to manage to make it roll for a certain amount of time, but at the first sign of failure they'll cut you right off."

He adds: "Honestly, I would not advise any actor necessarily, if he was really thinking of his career, to come out."

ABC cancels another Adam Lambert performance - CNN.com
​

 

[HUNGHUGE11X7]

It was NOT a pr stunt and like it or not ADAM LAMBERT is the closest thing we have today to a ROCK STAR . He has the vocal chops of the greats and even superior to many ! He is still new on the whole & will only get better with time. He should have done a cover CD, his stuff is good on the CD but it's not good enough to stand alone .


HH