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[madame_zora]

Cara, it's only natural to sneak a peek now and then, and I seriously doubt many men would mind Tender, there is a huge difference between glancing and oogling, whether or not they're "taken". Are you really suggesting that men in comitted realtionships don't notice other women's breasts????? Get real! Sexual harrassment is behavior that makes others uncomfortalbe to the point of not being able to do their job effectively, or threatens their job if they don't "give it up". In some cases, it can be unwelcome groping, or even lewd jokes, to some people, but I've never heard of an appreciative glance being called sexual harrassment. Think you got a little overzealous on that one. Do you notice if a woman has nice breasts? I know I do, and I'm not gay- it's just an appreciation of beauty. Very normal for people to look at each other. If we weren't trying to draw attention ot ourselves, why would we worry about what we wear at all? uh-oh, I'll get off my soap box now.....

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Am I allowed to say, "Zora, you're rather fine," without being sued for sexual harrasement?

And to be the "balanced issue" around here, while slight peeks are not going to harm anyone, if they're your co-worker, then for me, it's dangrous to lust for what I can't have, y'know?

I don't mean "dangerous" in a bad way, but the last thing you want to do is to start to make a habit, or an issue out of it, then Tender could argue that is sexual harassement.

I mean, if my workmates were openly staring at my crotch, I'd get self conscious!

 

[naughty]

Orca,

You? Sexual harrassment? I don't think so. I am not Zora but when some one gives me an overall positive comment I just say, "thank you".When it is accompanied with lots of drama and oggling I say "Get over yourself! " There have been very few men who have taken me there because I factor in that many of your sex can be off the hook and out of the box. LOL! But when it hits that point of no return, I will go off. I had one coworker who used to come over to my desk and loll around . One day he actually said to me that he had been thinking about me quite a bit and that he thought I would have made a beautiful odalisque ( those nude harem women 19th century painters depicted) I said "well thank you X," I felt like adding "... and the next time I see your wife I well tell her what you said!" When he really lost his mind I told him off royally.he has walked wide around me ever since!


Naughty

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Good for you Naughty!

Now that's something I really can't stand, attached people trying to hitch others.

Anyway, I'm not saying I could get done, I'm far too sensible for that, but "brainless lust leads to the dark side" and that probably does nab a few people.

 

[madame_zora]

Orca, thanx babe, always appreciate a nice compliment. Naughty made my point exactly, women have been dealing with this issue forever, and it is usually rather easily dealt with. If someone gives you a glance or pays you a compliment, the appropriate response is "thank you". My mother taught me that when I was young. If someone is leering or salivating, an abrupt "Can I help you" will usually embarrass them to the point of going away. If the problem is more than that, the direct approach is always best "I'm not interested". I can't imagine a woman taking it further than that. I have had a couple incidents with men that required a conversation as to why I wasn't interested, but still not a big deal. I worked for several years in management and had to become intimatley familiar with sexual harrassment laws (which are tedious) so perhaps this is a bit of a sore spot with me. I want everyone to feel comfortable in their work environment, but hate the letigeousness of our society. I think people should be less "on their guard" and looking for the worst in others, maybe we could get along a bit better. I don't leer and salivate when I look at men, I don't lean over their work space and dangle my breasts in their face, but I can read people (just like most ppl can) to a certain extent, and can tell if they'd be open to certain kinds of conversation. Usually, if I'm even gonna tell a joke that could be construed as offensive, I'll ask if the ppl standing around want to hear it first. If a guy is particularly shy, I'll be careful to remain professional at all times. The word here is RESPECT, Aretha said it best. But, in my particular case, the kind of guy I'm most likely to be attracted to is the loudmouth, showoff, asshole type (a lot of those in sales), and those kind of men usually love being looked at or even leered at. I never have any kind of relations with co-workers, but the energy charge can be fun. I guess the rule of thumb should be just use your common sense, but I still feel that "fired" for taking a casual glance at a guy is an absurdity.

 

[grnman]

Cara, I would not worry too much about checking out your coworkers bulge. Most likely he likes it at least a little. Personally, I avoid showing at work, but otherwise I generally do just because I am not into baggy pants, and I know when people look. If it bothered me I would dress differently. Certainly, he must know he is showing. I am not saying that he shows on purpose, but I doubt he minds. We all have mirors in our houses, so we know how we are showing when we leave. Anyway, go easy on yourself, and enjoy the show.

Jack

 

[13788]

Tender: ...

 

[madame_zora]

Well Tender, I am getting irritated, and it's MY problem, not yours- I realize that. I actually do respect you for sticking to your guns. The problem is, she was only talking about her feelings and reactions to a situation, she wasn't even hinting at approaching the man or discussing it, groping him or any of the things that would legally be construed as sexual harrassment. She was bringing it to a well-establised group of friends where we are supposed to feel at ease discussing our sexuality. I feel your comments are judgemental and harsh, and seem to reveal an insecurity you feel about YOUR husband, which is your issue-not Cara's. As I said in my earlier post, if a man was uncomfortable with unwanted attention he was receiving, as an adult, I'm sure he'd be capable of lowering his eyes and saying "Can I help you?". I have no doubt that would end the situation. I have never read or heard of a man being fired for looking, even leering or popping a boner while looking at a woman, so your suggestion of being fired for looking, getting flushed, imagintation, are still ridiculous. Guess we just disagree, but it would be a sad thing indeed if the moral majority invaded these pages to the point that people who really have issues to discuss didn't feel at ease to do so. I can't help but feel aroused when I'm standing close to a sexy man, I think Cara was brave to describe her feelings in so much detail, so please pay attention to the fact that they were just that- not actions. If you trust your husband so much, why are you getting so upset? Lastly, "whistle blowing" should be a last resort after every effort to resolve a situation on your own has failed, but if you want to live in a world where all our freedoms are replaced by laws, then I sure don't want to live in your world! Jana Vaught

 

[nursejudy]

I know an intern(happily married) who always looks like he's smuggling a grapefruit in his pants no matter how baggy they are. :wub:

 

[Mr. Big Stuff]

Originally posted by madame_zora@May 28 2004, 05:24 PM
it would be a sad thing indeed if the moral majority invaded these pages to the point that people who really have issues to discuss didn't feel at ease to do so.

I do not consider myself part of the "moral majority," but that guy with the panty-step sister fetish is just weird. And I feel I have to tell him that.

On the current topic, believe it or not I think you both are right. (I know, let me explain.) Zora pointed out correctly that it has to do with what makes a person uncomfortable. Now, If Cara was acting in that manner around me, I wouldnt be uncomfortable in the slightest. (especially if she was attractive.) But some could be offended by that behavior.

I would point out, however, that most would not IMO. That is why I think most cases of SH are due to the groping and such as Zora describes. And, I would suspect, as Zora said, that if they were uncomfortable they could quickly end it without whistle blowing. But who knows?

Again, depends on the comfort level. And while some maybe comfortable with that behavior, others may not.

Ken

 

[madame_zora]

Mr. Big Stuff, I'm right there with ya on the panty guy! I have unfortunately had occasion to sit in on several SH depositions, as well as monitor their progress, as I worked for a large company that had 500 offices around the country. I had become friends with one of our corporate attorneys (a woman) who handled many of these cases and claims. None of them were about looking only. Most involved aggression, threatening, or actual molestation. EVEN THEN, it was hard to fire someone for it because usually there were no witnesses and it was a he-said-she-said situtaion, which was frustrating for us as a company as we very much wanted to protect women's rights. So for me, the very thought of someone actually losing thier job over something as trivial as looking at someone is incomprehensible. Again, I look at this forum as what it is- a support group! We should be able to talk about our feelings, what's going on in our mind at the time, what we're thinking, without fear of being judged critically for what comes naturally. I like to talk about sex. I like the idea of well hung men- I like the way they look, I like the show offs who posts pictures of themselves, god bless you all! That's the premise this site is founded on, not conservativism and repression, or a "shame on you for getting aroused by a big dick" attitude.

 

[13788]

NikkiSixx: I am seriously relieved! I was afraid of so much as complimenting a woman's appearance or looking for more than a couple of seconds for fear of being accused of sexual harrassment. My situation is a bit different because I am a university student rather than an office worker, but it is similar enough for concern.

 

[13788]

Tender: ...

 

[madame_zora]

Well, I think we will have to agree to disagree here, but I do agree that if the person has attempted on their own to resolve an uncomfortable situation, i.e. telling the one doing it "Your staring makes me uncomfortable, stop it!", it does then become harrassment. I wasn't trying to set back issues 50 years, I was only saying that, from your original post, I felt it was too agressive a move for a first offense. Still do. Looking, even a lot, might be a normal healthy reaction to someone. Getting flushed when standing very close, well that's just chemical, can't really be helped. Enjoying the feeling- why the hell not? Work is boring enough. BUT if the object of the interest isn't into it, dressing more conservatively and letting their feelings be known should surely be a prerequisite to any kind of formal action. IF that doesn't do the trick, a formal WARNING is the next step, as any attorney would tell you. That's the law. Sorry, you're obviously angry about something, I'm guessing a real life issue that was not resolved to your satisfaction, but there are set ways to go about things in the workplace that are not based on knee-jerk reactions. People simply are not just fired for looking, leering, drooling, etc. without going through the process, which is as it should be.

 

[13788]

Tender: ...

 

[blar]

I suppose its OK for a woman to stare at HIM, but better watchout if the tables are turned!!

hahaha thats how the world turns...a guy will be looked upon as a pervert or monster if he does that and a women will not. This is not because guys like it...it's just the way things are :wacko:

 

[madame_zora]

Tender, we are actually not that far apart. I did in fact agree that it is harassment if it is unwelcome! I was only sharing that in my experience, people (both men or women) are warned before fired for their behavior, even when it is more overt in nature. I never heard of a case where there was not contact, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I was only explaining part of the process, as I have observed it, that the first step is not to fire someone but to alter their behavior via a written warning so as to try to accomodate all parties in continuing to work together. I was not advocating "free leering at unwilling participants", that would be ridiculous! But I have seen a lot of harmless flirting in the workplace that serves no other purpose than to make time go faster, and is not ill intended on the part of anyone. Since the original post did not address the issue of how the person receiving the attention was receiving it (because it said something like "I'll be so embarrassed IF I ever get caught", it had apparently not been obvious enough to make anyone uncomfortable). I hope that clears up my side, I still understand if we are not exactly seeing eye-to-eye, but I didn't want you to have a mistaken impression of what I was trying to convey.

 

[autumnbreeze4321]

Originally posted by madame_zora@May 12 2004, 05:35 PM
Okay, I was speaking in terms of being "off the clock". I'm sure in the workplace, it would not be appropriate to accentuate the largeness of your bulge (although I still love to see them during daylight hours, not everyone does). I'm sure that discretion is best then, just as I don't wear low-cut blouses that show a lot of cleavage during work hours, because I may offend clients. However, and this is just my opinion, many women like to see a guys junk just as much as men are aroused by seeing some of a girl's breasts. If you wanna know who's into the big ones, give them a preview!

I was lucky enough to meet 2 other girls during my freshman year who shared my thought on size. We werea ll new to being on our own and had few, if any, sexual expereinces in high school. We all got lucky with a well hung guy during our first one night stand in college.

We decided not to waste our time onsmall guys. We make sure we check out the goods first-making out fully clothed to do our best to determine his size. If he seems to be small, we tactfully back out with a line such as" I just don't feel this is going to work out" or something similar.

 

[madame_zora]

Lol, Autumnbreeze, you're killing me! Welcome to the board, I saw you just registered. You'll have a blast here and meet some very cool ppl. I came upon that realzation much later in life, sure would have saved me some aggrevation if I had known earlier...

 

[Duo187]

So.. now I have something to look forward to this year...!!! woot. Ladies here I..... run away in fear, lol.

A quick question, so if lets say I were to wear shorts that were too short when i sat down and it slipped out, would that be considered sexual harassment if there were people around?