Advice needed: Experiences with Ambien or sleeping pills

ManlyBanisters

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Lay off. The matter of talking about sleep necessity is important. There were stupid things said here, and they needed to be pointed out as such. It's none of your business whether I calm down or whether I use figures of speech that don't appeal to you. But don't expect me to use a pleasant tone with you if you pull 'tinfoil beanie' smart-ass shit. I'll just put you on Ignore, I think. Yes, that works fine, I'm tired of the smug, condescending tones that apply only to other person, not the one disliking little details in their passive-aggressive way, with the 'just curious' crap.

Wow - way to over react to what I believe is the first time I've ever posted to you directly. Forgive me if that isn't true - if we did converse before it clearly wasn't memorable.

You have a nice day, now - those little black helicopters outside are just collecting weather information - don't mind 'em :wink:
 

Wyldgusechaz

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Try trazodone. Its a terrific sleep aid and will work wonders for creating healthy nocturnal erections which will in turn elevate your libido.
 

B_becominghorse

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Don't sweat it, Manly, some of all of this is probably a reaction to the OP, which seems a bit upset and slightly obsessed about reading something about recommended sleep...and it sounds like, but doesn't say, that he does need more sleep. Otherwise, an article wouldn't make you think all sorts of worried thoughts. I know that when I've been sleep-deprived for too long, I have worried about things that don't merit it. I mean--when thinking about sleep deprivation, it doesn't necessarily follow to jump straight to Heath Ledger, you see. That was several medications and probably goodly amounts.

Stress is hard to manage, period. Definitely Melatonin ought to be tried. But the vast majority of people who do use Ambien are not zombified even when they have some reactions to it. There was a good op-ed a few years ago by Maureen Dowd, who admitted having some sonnambulism but not that worried about it either. It IS the U.S. political and puritanical atmosphere about medications that makes people always imagine themselves dope addicts after one single prescription. This simply doesn't exist in Europe in the same way, even though there is plenty of problem with addiction. Now that I recall it, I think I took Ambien on and off from 2003 to 2005, but never had any of those famous symptoms at all, and never missed it when I stopped it. I'm sure my annoyance is a general one, because I think American policy about medications is backward, and paradoxically makes people think there is only addiction or taking absolutely nothing--ever. And yet addiction to things like crystal meth (all those stories of Indian reservation families) doesn't exist in the family-destroying way in more liberal-minded democracries. It's almost like the attitude about drugs is itself bipolar. And I find it especially annoying that Prozac and all its descendants--which ARE nearly impossible to get off once you've started--are routinely prescribed. They'd scare me a lot more than Ambien ever would--and I came close to getting started on one of those at one time.

Anyway, no offense, and anyway I always like being reminded of helicopters and/or trucks.
 

JustAsking

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The OP didn't actually state why he thought he had a sleep problem and why he only got 5 hours or so a night. I have that problem from time to time, but not because I wake up early. I sometimes have a period where I am a relentless night owl.

The feeling at 11PM or so is that it is way too early to go to bed, and I simply must accomplish something important before I do go to bed. It is a kind of free-floating angst about declaring the day to be over, or something.

Anyway, during those periods, my 5 hours comes from going to bed too late, not waking up too early. I wonder if that is what the OP is experiencing?
 

Calboner

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1) HyperHulk, you never say anywhere that you feel the need for more sleep. If you sleep soundly for five or six hours and have no difficulty waking up in the morning and staying awake throughout the day, then there is no point in trying to sleep more or seeking any artificial aids for doing so. People vary in the amount of sleep that they need; you may be one of those who need less than most people. Hardly anyone needs ten hours of sleep per night.

2) I have taken Ambien for years, though never more than three times a week, without any ill effects. I have also used Sonata, which has the same primary virtue -- that it has no lingering effects. Neither drug makes me sleep through the night, which is the point on which I have the most difficulty, so I mostly use them only for getting back to sleep when I have awakened in the middle of the night. Their advantage over non-prescription sleeping medications (antihistamines) is that they don't make you drowsy for more than a few hours.

3) I tried melatonin for a while, and it seemed to cause me to lose sleep and to have anxiety dreams. It certainly did not help me sleep.

4) I have tried Valerian root and chamomile and have never observed either to have the slightest effect on my sleep, beneficial or otherwise.
 

snoozan

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if you are tired and not sleeping more than 5 or 6 hours... see a sleep therapist. You may be suffering from sleep apnea or other conditions that constantly interrupt deep sleep.

Apnea can actually be life threatening.


So get it looked into.

I have apnea and have for many years. It's debilitating. Sleep disorders in general really erode the quality of life and aren't good for your overall health. I'd recommend to anyone with concerns about how they sleep to go to their doctor and see about getting a sleep study done.

There are many forms of sleep disorders and insomnia, and it takes a good physician to figure out which kind you have and what you'll respond to whether medicinally or otherwise.

I think my problem is a bit stress related, because when I'm stressed my mind races and I have dreams that wake me up and then I can't get back to sleep. So I'll ask around about Melatonin and see what the pharmacists say.

Melatonin has mixed reviews on efficacy but I don't think it can hurt. If sleeping seems to be related to stress, the obvious thing to do is to address the stress. That's not an easy thing to do, I know, but in the long run it will help you more than just addressing the sleep problem if its only cause is stress.

I can't take sleeping pills because they give me really fucked up dreams and make me feel like i'm still awake even when i'm asleep. Instead, i take benedryl every night when i'm reasy for sleep. it knocks me right out and no wierdness. My Dr. knows i do this and has voiced no concerns over how often i take it or why.

Ambien, Lunesta, and other prescription sleep aids work very well for many people. There's no reason to rule out using them if they work and you can tolerate any side effects. As far as Benadryl goes, you can get psychologically dependent on it and, for me, it has really bad side effects that I can't tolerate (hallucinating and disturbed sleep). Just because Benadryl is over the counter doesn't mean it's not strong or that it doesn't have side effects. For you, it works well, and that's what is important.
 

B_becominghorse

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1) 4) I have tried Valerian root and chamomile and have never observed either to have the slightest effect on my sleep, beneficial or otherwise.

These things are of no use to me either. Sometimes I think those are for people who are very not really very anxious to begin with and they just add a soothing element. Problem with chamomile is I've never even found any that has any real flavour, but knew I was too hard-core for it to help with sleep (not the warm milk type either.)

Interesting what you say about anxiety dreams from melatonin, because I didn't take it for years after I first started it. It didn't give me bad dreams, but did cause death thoughts just as I would begin to get drowzy. I think I forgot about these, or might not have started using it again. I have no idea why it affects me differently now than it did 10 years ago.

Something that was touted as good for sleep back in the 80s was Tryptophan, which I found worthless.

Of course, all the tranquilizers are good sleep-inducers, but they're definitely addictive and out of favour with almost all physicians.

I was frankly surprised that Melatonin works so well for me, given my past experience with it.
 

B_becominghorse

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I As far as Benadryl goes, you can get psychologically dependent on it and, for me, it has really bad side effects that I can't tolerate (hallucinating and disturbed sleep). Just because Benadryl is over the counter doesn't mean it's not strong or that it doesn't have side effects. For you, it works well, and that's what is important.

Surprised to hear this about a drowziness-inducing cold medication (it is, isn't it?). In the one period (1989) where I had HUGE sleep disorders, in the middle of some professional stress I just couldn't manage, I used Contac and Benadryl, and they always made me feel wiped out, plus seemed to affect the circulation somewhat because of their usual functions as decongestant. This cause the Restless Legs Syndrome problem, and I went through a period of about 6 weeks in which I got no deep sleep at all, and never felt rested--this was close to a nervous breakdown, and a doctor finally had to give me a temporary prescription of Ativan, which I used for two weeks, and it helped me make the transition. But Restless Legs Syndrome can be hideous.
 

snoozan

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Surprised to hear this about a drowziness-inducing cold medication (it is, isn't it?). In the one period (1989) where I had HUGE sleep disorders, in the middle of some professional stress I just couldn't manage, I used Contac and Benadryl, and they always made me feel wiped out, plus seemed to affect the circulation somewhat because of their usual functions as decongestant. This cause the Restless Legs Syndrome problem, and I went through a period of about 6 weeks in which I got no deep sleep at all, and never felt rested--this was close to a nervous breakdown, and a doctor finally had to give me a temporary prescription of Ativan, which I used for two weeks, and it helped me make the transition. But Restless Legs Syndrome can be hideous.

Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is used for a lot of things outside of its use as an OTC antihistamine. Most of the OTC sleep remedies are diphenhydramine. It's used in hospital settings to combat the side effects of some antipsychotics. Histamine receptors are all over your body including in your brain, which is why it makes you drowsy. I was very surprised that it made me so loopy when I used it for sleep because I'd used it as a child as an antihistamine.

Ativan and the like can be very effective in the short term for short-circuiting stressful thoughts before bed so you can get to sleep. It does have the potential for abuse and addiction, but used judiciously it works very well. Doctors are starting to come back to using Ativan and other benzodiazepines because even with the risks they are safe and effective. I take Ativan for anxiety and it works very well as an adjunct to my primary medication. I've been taking it for many years and so far haven't had any problems with it.
 

mickswim

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agree with boynextdoor - and the easiest way to get melatonin is to eat half a bannana and drink 1/2 glass of warmed milk before bed - sounds silly - but its natural L-triptophan in your belly - - -
try it and let us know your experience ...
 

Calboner

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There was mention of benzodiazepines and Ativan. I have had (bad) experience with Ativan, which I know under its generic name of lorazepam. After a long period of taking it on occasion, I developed a tremor in my left hand, and eventually (even though I had cut down my consumption to no more than once a week) I began to have seizures or seizure-like episodes -- not losing consciousness, but having all my thoughts scrambled into dream-like incoherence while I was fully conscious. My doctor did not think that these episodes were seizures, but whatever they were, they were terrifying. My doctor also did not think that they could have been caused by the lorazepam, but they did occur following my use of the drug and ceased occurring, eventually, after I completely stopped taking it. (I had one attack about a week after my last dose, so I think that they were a withdrawal symptom.) So lorazepam can be dangerous stuff, even if you don't take it frequently.
 

Principessa

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I also would not recommend it...I lived with a roommate who took it and it made her sleepwalk. She ended up drinking all of our alcohol and got into a fight with her boyfriend on the phone that she doesn't remember.
Oddly sleepwalking and eating are a common and accepted symptom of Ambien to many medical professionals.
Study Links Ambien Use to Unconscious Food Forays

5-6 hours of sleep is plenty for anybody over 18. If you just wake up after 5 or 6 hours, then your body is telling you that you had enough sleep.
Where the heck did you hear that crap? :confused: Studies have shown that even teenagers need at least 9 hours of sleep per night. The average adult needs 7 to 8 hours of sleep per night. It's not until one is a senior citizen that many people find they are able to get by on less sleep.


Ambien is definately addicting. Try taking half dosage first if you do try
Excellent advice. Also if you know you have an addictive personality Ambien is a drug to avoid as it can be very addictive.



if you are tired and not sleeping more than 5 or 6 hours... see a sleep therapist. You may be suffering from sleep apnea or other conditions that constantly interrupt deep sleep.
Apnea can actually be life threatening. So get it looked into.
I can't believe I am agreeing with you; but for once you are 100% correct.

I have sleep apnea and narclepsy and I was stunned to find out how often I actually stop breathing per hour. :eek: This led to inadequate sleep and excessive daytime sleepiness.

I have tried Lunesta but that doesn't keep me asleep all night.


Umm, thanks guys. Just these couple of posts are more than enough to scare me away and figure out something else. I knew I was avoiding sleeping pills for a reason. Really appreciate all of your feedback!
If your sleep has been irregular for more than a month you need to see a sleep specialist. Often this is a pulmonologist or a neurologist.
 

simcha

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Insomnia can be very serious. I know I've suffered with it for most of my life. I'm better these days but if history is any guide, I'll most likely have issues again.

The first thing to do is to determine if you have a problem with sleep. If you feel fine on 5-6 hours, then maybe it ain't broke.

However if 5-6 hours leaves you a mess the next day (and I'm one of those people) then you have options.

First you would want to take note of your sleeping habits. Professionally it's called, "Sleep hygiene." Often people with insomnia can beat it with improving their sleep hygiene. It's the first thing I'd recommend for you since if you go to a good doctor, it's the first thing they'll recommend.

What you have to do is pick a bedtime. Stick to your bedtime. Don't change it for weekends. It must be the same every day. Also you must pick a wake-up time. Make it the same time every day. Stick to the schedule. Consistency is key here. Also you may want to have a night-time "ritual" that is the same before you go to bed. It can be something like, you brush your teeth, slip into your sleeping clothes, open the window a crack for air, get into bed, turn the light off, and go to sleep. Also they recommend that the bed be used for nothing but sleep. This means don't eat in bed, watch tv in bed, read in bed, study in bed, or anything else but sleep. That way your body and mind can get accustomed to the ritual of going to bed and your body and mind will know that once you get into the bed, that you will be falling asleep.

If this doesn't cut it, and for some of us, it doesn't do the trick entirely, then you might want to try some other simple household remedies first. I have a long list that I try.

Eat something starchy (I find a baked potato can work wonders)
Drink a warm glass of milk
Eat turkey (or something else with tryptophans)
Drink chamomile tea
Take a soothing aromatherapy bath (lavendar helps me)
Sprinkle lavendar scented water on your bed

Then I have some remedies that I use that are a little more chemical. I am not a doctor and your mileage may very.

Sometimes I take the following (not all at once I rotate these "treatments")

Valerian
Skullcap
Passion Flower
Hops
Kava Kava (be careful with this one)
Melatonin
Magnesium
B-Vitamins
Inositol

Then sometimes I'll try the benadryl/diphenhydramine pills. Almost all sleep aids that are over the counter have diphenhydramine (generic for benadryl) in them. It's an antihistamine (used for allergic reactions usually). These include Sominex, SleepGels, or Compoz. Tylenol PM contains this drug in it and adds acetaminophen (the active ingredient of Tylenol). If you are going to go this route, be careful. First it's useless to by the brand name stuff, you're paying more for the same stuff in the generic Waldryl or whatever pills with diphenhydramine. Also if you are using Tylenol PM be aware that you are using Tylenol and it can be hard on the liver if you are using it all the time. If you don't need the Tylenol, again, just take the generic diphenhydramine pills.

Also they use another antihistamine in over the counter sleep aids called doxylamine succinate. You'll find this drug in Unisom. It's basically the same as diphenhydramine, it just costs more.

Also, antihistamines can leave you groggy in the morning and "out of sorts." Some people don't tolerate them well. And they've done studies that say that these drugs actually interrupt your sleep architecture meaning that you don't get a restful sleep. And these drugs can make you a bit "loopy."

Next down the chain for me are the prescribed drugs used for sleep.

Benzodiazepines have been used for decades to help people sleep. The problem with them is that most interrupt your sleep architecture and they can be addictive if taken regularly. Commonly prescribed Benzos for sleep are:

diazepam (Valium)
lorazepam (Ativan; Temesta; Tavor)
oxazepam (Serax; Serepax)
temazepam (Restoril; Normison)
triazolam (Halcion)
estazolam (ProSom)
clorazepate (Tranxene)

Alprazolam (Xanax) is often used in the USA to induce sleep too. I take a benzodiazepine for restless legs syndrom and bruxism (grinding teeth) called clonazepam (Klonopin/Rivotril) at a very low dose and I'm monitored on my use of it. It can help with my sleep patterns. I take it before bed every night.

Then there is Ambien. I've tried both the regular Ambien and the Ambien CR. I have to say that I prefered the Ambien CR. It helped me fall asleep and stay asleep most of the time. I only used Ambien once a week or once every other week. It's a good idea not to take it all the time because I found that I could build a tolerance.

Also, I was put on Neurontin (Gabapentin) for a long time and I have extra that I have left over from that period. It can make me drowsy and help me sleep. I'll take a small dose of this sometimes to help (very rarely).

So even with the prescription drugs I take them rarely. I try sleep hygiene mainly. If that doesn't work, I go to a non-drug method. Then I'll resort to an herb or a supplement. As a last resort, when I know it's going to be very bad, I'll take a prescription med.

Good luck.
 

B_becominghorse

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I had thought Halcion was defunct. I had a prescription for it in that same bad period of 1989-1990 and liked it less than the others.

Someone else mentioned problems with Ativan--Calboner. I had had a prescription for that when I was still in school by the school doctor (I believe, because she used to give out this sort of thing.) I had none of those physical symptome, but I literally had extreme loss of memory. I recall having to call someone in my class that morning and ask her if I had been in class. This has never happened with anything else I've ever had prescribed, and it didn't happen later when I had it prescribed again--which means I have used both Ativan and Melatonin (vastly different kinds of substances, of course) at different times and not had the same reaction. That first time, when I temporarily lost all memory for a day, I just through them out. That scared shit out of me. But the disappearance of rhe 'death-thoughts' from the Melatonin is also inexplicable to me; by now, Melatonin induces only a very nice easy and non-sudden slowing down into sweet thoughts.
 

HyperHulk

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Wow, I wasn't expecting so much information, but I truly appreciate all the time and effort people have put in giving me advice. This is an area I don't really know much about. I'm a bit sorry to read that some of the posts turned a tad bitter, but I guess that comes with the territory with these things.

Some have asked whether the sleeping has become a problem and if that's why I've sought advice. Actually, it isn't a horrible problem. I tend to be one of those people who can get 5 hours of sleep (sometimes less) and be perfectly functional the next day--wake up early, no drowsiness, no bad effects. If anything I may get tired around 9pm or so but generally can keep going.

My problem is two fold: one, I want to sleep more--just because I get up and can function fine doesn't mean I have to. I generally just feel awake and get bored staying in bed, so I do stuff. But I would rather go to sleep. I also don't seem to have a problem falling asleep and when I do, a quick JO will normally knock me out. But I really do want to sleep.

The other reason is a bit more related to my workout plan. I know that muscles grow when your body rests and they need the rest. So I want my body to have the right amount of rest so it can maximize what I'm doing in the gym. And yes, I recently read research that stated that too little or too much sleep is a contributor to weight gain. 7-8 hours is recommended for adults.

These sleep issue have been persisting for awhile. I probably average 6 hours of sleep a night. I know I have some stuff that's got me a bit stressed so I think that maybe that's making it a bit worse. Because of the workout plan and eating plan, I have to watch what I eat before bed.

Everyone seems to support the Melatonin option so I'll ask about that and if that still doesn't work, I'll looking into the sleep therapist. Or maybe I'll get off my ass and tackle the stuff that is causing me stress, although just thinking about all that stresses me out. LOL

Again, thanks everyone--amazing posts and great info.
 

B_ignas762

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I've been using 10mg Ambien for about 10 years now. I sleep very soundly and awake 6-8 hours later refreshed and loads of energy. Not every night, maybe 2 or 3 times a week. It is my miracle drug, but ONLY if I take it on an empty stomach! I too have had some "amnesia" like times. When I first began taking it, I called an ex boyfriend while my husband was asleep next to me. Thank God the side effects have gone away!
 

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my mainstay I have taken ambien for years -probably 5 years now. Have had periods of trying to replace it or reduce it, but my insomnia is chronic, with fibromyalgia, so this i have found to be the most reliable source of sleep in my regimen, although the length of effectiveness has dropped drastically over the years-currently gets me about 4-5 hours sleep, which I seem to function okay with. Trying lunesta, but it seems really weak in comparison, not very effective.