Advice on juggling a gay relationship and living with 'anti-gay' parents

AussieJackson

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Hey everyone. I’m a new member here and I’m after some advice.

I grew up in a traditional, ‘old fashioned’ household, and as such my parents have pretty strong views regarding ‘gay issues’. They’ve never been forced on us, but they have been made known. I respect their views and they are entitled to them, regardless if I disagree with them. As far as I’m aware, my parents don’t know I’m gay. I went to a strict school and was pushed to paths I never liked, enjoyed, or wanted to do – I had to play AFL football, work on cars, study ‘real’ subjects, and so on. My whole life has been shaped into what a man should be and the things men do. Now, as an adult (24), I look back and reflect on all the experiences I have missed and look at the person I was, compared to the person I should have been. The only reprise was a relationship with another guy during school. I went to an all boys school, so there was plenty of choice. That lasted a few years, but, unfortunately, some things aren’t meant to be and we split up a year after graduating. I’m still shattered about it.

I’ve always known that, deep down, I hold myself back from doing ‘non manly’ things just to please my parents and keep them happy – I studied languages and music, instead of performing arts. The fact that my brother can do no wrong in their view only makes matters worse, but it is what it is. Now I find I’m in a difficult situation. Over the past year I’ve developed a relationship with a guy from work. At the five month mark we made it official and we’re now a couple; his family know, but mine don’t.

At this point, I’ll say that I still live at home with my family and he lives at home with his family. I’m working on saving for a house, but it is outrageously expensive here in Australia. Most people would introduce their partner to their family, invite them over for dinner, and spend time with each other. However, I find I’m holding back, as usual, and I fear I will damage our relationship.

Don’t get me wrong, I get it when people say ‘who cares what they think, just do what you want to do and be yourself’. I would, but I still live at home and my relationship with my parents has been shaky, to say the least; being myself would only make it worse.

Hopefully I have made sense. Any advice is welcome
 
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The best advice I ever received in my life was from a crazy aunt of mine. She said - do your own thing. As long as you aren't hurting someone, or hurting yourself, do what makes you happy.

You won't live with your parents forever, and if you've hidden your true self from them for this long, a little while longer for a lifetime of being yourself is a small price to pay. You're an adult and responsible for your own happiness. Setting boundaries between yourself and your parents is a necessary and healthy thing. When the time comes, reassure them that they are entitled to their opinions, but how you live your life is not up for debate.
 

AussieJackson

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The best advice I ever received in my life was from a crazy aunt of mine. She said - do your own thing. As long as you aren't hurting someone, or hurting yourself, do what makes you happy.

You won't live with your parents forever, and if you've hidden your true self from them for this long, a little while longer for a lifetime of being yourself is a small price to pay. You're an adult and responsible for your own happiness. Setting boundaries between yourself and your parents is a necessary and healthy thing. When the time comes, reassure them that they are entitled to their opinions, but how you live your life is not up for debate.
I love the advice. As crazy as you say she is, her advice is spot on and I agree

You're right, but I'm living there now and I don't want to cause any trouble. I hope it isn't for much longer. That's true, I suppose a little while longer is a small price to pay. Thanks for the help x
 

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Hey everyone. I’m a new member here and I’m after some advice.

I grew up in a traditional, ‘old fashioned’ household, and as such my parents have pretty strong views regarding ‘gay issues’. They’ve never been forced on us, but they have been made known. I respect their views and they are entitled to them, regardless if I disagree with them. As far as I’m aware, my parents don’t know I’m gay. I went to a strict school and was pushed to paths I never liked, enjoyed, or wanted to do – I had to play AFL football, work on cars, study ‘real’ subjects, and so on. My whole life has been shaped into what a man should be and the things men do. Now, as an adult (24), I look back and reflect on all the experiences I have missed and look at the person I was, compared to the person I should have been. The only reprise was a relationship with another guy during school. I went to an all boys school, so there was plenty of choice. That lasted a few years, but, unfortunately, some things aren’t meant to be and we split up a year after graduating. I’m still shattered about it.

I’ve always known that, deep down, I hold myself back from doing ‘non manly’ things just to please my parents and keep them happy – I studied languages and music, instead of performing arts. The fact that my brother can do no wrong in their view only makes matters worse, but it is what it is. Now I find I’m in a difficult situation. Over the past year I’ve developed a relationship with a guy from work. At the five month mark we made it official and we’re now a couple; his family know, but mine don’t.

At this point, I’ll say that I still live at home with my family and he lives at home with his family. I’m working on saving for a house, but it is outrageously expensive here in Australia. Most people would introduce their partner to their family, invite them over for dinner, and spend time with each other. However, I find I’m holding back, as usual, and I fear I will damage our relationship.

Don’t get me wrong, I get it when people say ‘who cares what they think, just do what you want to do and be yourself’. I would, but I still live at home and my relationship with my parents has been shaky, to say the least; being myself would only make it worse.

Hopefully I have made sense. Any advice is welcome
hi mate - welcome to the lpsg team & thanks for sharing your story - im sorry to hear that the issues you faced grownng up were very similar to mine & im a few years older than you - i too grew up in religious family - older parents - private boys school - needing to always portray a masculine image & effectively fittng in to work, study, career etc - good luck with your journey- keep saving those $$ and keep focused on your goal! i did not discuss my sexuality with my parents - i never dated & moved interstate for a bit more freedom - if you feel like chatting to another mate in adelaide let me know! cheers buddy dx
 

AussieJackson

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hi mate - welcome to the lpsg team & thanks for sharing your story - im sorry to hear that the issues you faced grownng up were very similar to mine & im a few years older than you - i too grew up in religious family - older parents - private boys school - needing to always portray a masculine image & effectively fittng in to work, study, career etc - good luck with your journey- keep saving those $$ and keep focused on your goal! i did not discuss my sexuality with my parents - i never dated & moved interstate for a bit more freedom - if you feel like chatting to another mate in adelaide let me know! cheers buddy dx
Hey man. Thanks for the welcome and thanks for your story. I'm sorry to hear you went through the same thing too. Sounds like we had the same upbringing. Thanks dude, putting in the hours and trying to save up. I'm sure you know what it's like, nothing is getting cheaper. I'd love to chat with you about it and how you managed to get through it. I'm a new member here so I'll drop you a line in a few days when the restriction has lifted. Thanks for the message dude xx
 

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The best advice I ever received in my life was from a crazy aunt of mine. She said - do your own thing. As long as you aren't hurting someone, or hurting yourself, do what makes you happy.

You won't live with your parents forever, and if you've hidden your true self from them for this long, a little while longer for a lifetime of being yourself is a small price to pay. You're an adult and responsible for your own happiness. Setting boundaries between yourself and your parents is a necessary and healthy thing. When the time comes, reassure them that they are entitled to their opinions, but how you live your life is not up for debate.
Sorry to hear, I relate to some of this , would be happy to chat more.
 

PutItInHere691

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This is a thing we all as gay men have to deal with at one time or another..

I remember a time my uncle would preach that homosexuality is an abomination.. then he found out one of his fishing buddies was gay .. and he stuck by his god and didn’t see his friend for long time… then he finds out his sister in law was a lesbian .. he got to thinking and still told her she was an abomination to god that she repent her sins ..

And then there’s me.. I never hid the fact that I was gay from anyone .. ever ..

I helped mow his yard and three other properties he owns but did that change him.. no .. not at first .. after he tells me I was an abomination to god..I mentioned to him that people that live in glass houses should not throw stones..

then the famous he who has not committed sin shall cast the first stone..

he looks at me funny and told him how he sneaked around drinking thinking no one else see a it but yet he preached at my stepdad for drinking. Said he should treat gods body as a temple and not fill it with that garbage ..

Then how he cheats on his wife and each time she forgives him for doing it because she loved him..

he mentions the ultimate sin and I said there is no ultimate sin.. a sun is a sun in the eyes of god..

I know the Bible from front to back .. had for a very long time . And he didn’t think I knew the Bible ..

I told him that I quit believing in a god that hates what he created so much ..

Now your problem..I lived in an apartment for 7 years and over the years I saved money for down payment on a house .. so you and your bf move into a place together temporarily and both save money while you two live together and form a stronger bond because the longer you stay in your parents clutches the harder it will be to make your relationship work..

Guys still hide the fact they are gay while living with someone..

And it’s not just a gay thing.. parents get upset over their straight son or daughter.. they have to deal with no sex before marriage from the Bible but they sneak around humping like rabbits because they are human just like we are..

So get an apartment together .. work on saving money — to buy a house ….

as for me things happen and I do live in my own house and all but divorced my wife ( crazy story how that occurred if wanna known pm me and I’ll tell you about it .

But at least you two living together you can be happy in your own place.. then keep it a secret a while longer ..

and just remember — when tell them don’t do it with an attitude .. that will set the tone in a bad way…

but when visit parents while living with boyfriend.. you can still hide the fact you’re gay .. but at least you can go to your place and be happy..

trust me .. it will help you build the urge to open up.. and they may not accept it right away .. but over time they may accept it..

my uncle did..
 

AussieJackson

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This is a thing we all as gay men have to deal with at one time or another..

I remember a time my uncle would preach that homosexuality is an abomination.. then he found out one of his fishing buddies was gay .. and he stuck by his god and didn’t see his friend for long time… then he finds out his sister in law was a lesbian .. he got to thinking and still told her she was an abomination to god that she repent her sins ..

And then there’s me.. I never hid the fact that I was gay from anyone .. ever ..

I helped mow his yard and three other properties he owns but did that change him.. no .. not at first .. after he tells me I was an abomination to god..I mentioned to him that people that live in glass houses should not throw stones..

then the famous he who has not committed sin shall cast the first stone..

he looks at me funny and told him how he sneaked around drinking thinking no one else see a it but yet he preached at my stepdad for drinking. Said he should treat gods body as a temple and not fill it with that garbage ..

Then how he cheats on his wife and each time she forgives him for doing it because she loved him..

he mentions the ultimate sin and I said there is no ultimate sin.. a sun is a sun in the eyes of god..

I know the Bible from front to back .. had for a very long time . And he didn’t think I knew the Bible ..

I told him that I quit believing in a god that hates what he created so much ..

Now your problem..I lived in an apartment for 7 years and over the years I saved money for down payment on a house .. so you and your bf move into a place together temporarily and both save money while you two live together and form a stronger bond because the longer you stay in your parents clutches the harder it will be to make your relationship work..

Guys still hide the fact they are gay while living with someone..

And it’s not just a gay thing.. parents get upset over their straight son or daughter.. they have to deal with no sex before marriage from the Bible but they sneak around humping like rabbits because they are human just like we are..

So get an apartment together .. work on saving money — to buy a house ….

as for me things happen and I do live in my own house and all but divorced my wife ( crazy story how that occurred if wanna known pm me and I’ll tell you about it .

But at least you two living together you can be happy in your own place.. then keep it a secret a while longer ..

and just remember — when tell them don’t do it with an attitude .. that will set the tone in a bad way…

but when visit parents while living with boyfriend.. you can still hide the fact you’re gay .. but at least you can go to your place and be happy..

trust me .. it will help you build the urge to open up.. and they may not accept it right away .. but over time they may accept it..

my uncle did..
Thank you for sharing such a deep and personal story. People are entitled to their opinions, and that's fine, but it's wrong to force them on to others. The same goes for those who don't have an issue. Kudos to you for not hiding it. I admire your courage. I do find it interesting, as you said, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. It's a case of do as I say not as I do. Trust me man we're working hard, but it's just sooo expensive over here. I've ran through the scenario before, but I can't predict their reactions. I'll send you a message. Thanks for the story and thanks for the help xx
 
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Infernal

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I love the advice. As crazy as you say she is, her advice is spot on and I agree

You're right, but I'm living there now and I don't want to cause any trouble. I hope it isn't for much longer. That's true, I suppose a little while longer is a small price to pay. Thanks for the help x

Crazy in the best possible way. She's the black sheep of her generation and damn proud of it. Did what she wanted, said what she wanted, and didn't care what anyone thought of it. Had a child out of wedlock in the 70s when it was still considered taboo. Her pastor told her that she needed to stand before the congregation and admit her sin before he would agree to marry her to a man that was not the child's father. She told both him and the congregation to shove it up their collective asses and that she would not apologize for bringing her son into the world. Her husband was a police officer and found her growing a marijuana plant in the backyard. When he told her to get rid of it she said fuck no, arrest me, or mind your own business. We are a little more than 15 years apart in age so in many ways she treats me like a sibling and not a nephew. When she found out that I'm gay she said something about how dick is the greatest thing and then told me about a lover who had a cock so big it spanned two zip codes.

When she said "Do your own thing" she meant it. I hope you in time you can live with your head held high unafraid of the judgments of others.
 

AussieJackson

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Crazy in the best possible way. She's the black sheep of her generation and damn proud of it. Did what she wanted, said what she wanted, and didn't care what anyone thought of it. Had a child out of wedlock in the 70s when it was still considered taboo. Her pastor told her that she needed to stand before the congregation and admit her sin before he would agree to marry her to a man that was not the child's father. She told both him and the congregation to shove it up their collective asses and that she would not apologize for bringing her son into the world. Her husband was a police officer and found her growing a marijuana plant in the backyard. When he told her to get rid of it she said fuck no, arrest me, or mind your own business. We are a little more than 15 years apart in age so in many ways she treats me like a sibling and not a nephew. When she found out that I'm gay she said something about how dick is the greatest thing and then told me about a lover who had a cock so big it spanned two zip codes.

When she said "Do your own thing" she meant it. I hope you in time you can live with your head held high unafraid of the judgments of others.
Oh of course, she sounds amazing. Having those people in your family to look up to goes a long way. And to know she was from a time where people pretty much had to conform to social expectations or risk being rejected by everyone makes it an even better story. I hope he is still herself and not letting anyone stop her from being her. I agree, it is the greatest thing haha. Wow, lucky her, will have to let my imagination run with that one

Thank you. When I move out and have a place of my own, I'll finally feel confident enough to be me and live life the way I want to. Thank you for your help and support x

Hey brother. I’m sorry to hear you’re going through a pretty tough time. I know what it‘s like and I’m going through a similar thing. Send me a message if you like. Happy to lend an ear or offer some help. Stay strong xx
Hey bro, thanks for the message. Sorry to hear youre going through it too. Message sent. Thanks man xx
 
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Infernal

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I hope she is still herself and not letting anyone stop her from being her. I agree, it is the greatest thing haha.

She turned 70 two days ago. She lives on her own, talks shit, and doesn't care what anything thinks about it.
 
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At some time you will have to cut the ties that bind you to your family. As you've managed to exist for so long with their restrictions a short time more isn't going to hurt things - but you have to move out, and the sooner the better. Get something rented, move in with your guy - to whom you have told about your family - and then look to buy. The worst that could happen then is they cut you out of their lives, but at least you'll be independent of them. Currently you are trying to live the life they want you to live knowing it's not the true you, so, be true to yourself.
 
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Not really much to add here but I emphathize and agree with some of the other posters. My rural, Christain upbringing was totally against gay relationships. I was already out of the house when I told my parents and also wasn't actively in a relationship. That was almost 19 years ago and their position hasn't changed, softened just a little. Had I been living at home still it would have been 1 million times worse so my heart goes out to you.

I'd definitely try to get a place, either on my own or with him, whatever makes the most sense. Easier said than done I know but it would clear one hurdle for you.
 
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AussieJackson

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She turned 70 two days ago. She lives on her own, talks shit, and doesn't care what anything thinks about it.
Oh wow, that's great! Good on her, I hope she's as strong as ever.
At some time you will have to cut the ties that bind you to your family. As you've managed to exist for so long with their restrictions a short time more isn't going to hurt things - but you have to move out, and the sooner the better. Get something rented, move in with your guy - to whom you have told about your family - and then look to buy. The worst that could happen then is they cut you out of their lives, but at least you'll be independent of them. Currently you are trying to live the life they want you to live knowing it's not the true you, so, be true to yourself.
I hope it doesn't come to that but who knows what may happen. I agree, a little more pain for a lifetime of gain is worth it. Hopefully by the end of the year we'll be in a position to buy a house, but that's too far in advance to know what may happen. Thanks for the help brother x
Not really much to add here but I emphathize and agree with some of the other posters. My rural, Christain upbringing was totally against gay relationships. I was already out of the house when I told my parents and also wasn't actively in a relationship. That was almost 19 years ago and their position hasn't changed, softened just a little. Had I been living at home still it would have been 1 million times worse so my heart goes out to you.

I'd definitely try to get a place, either on my own or with him, whatever makes the most sense. Easier said than done I know but it would clear one hurdle for you.
Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry you had to endure the same treatment. It's disappointing and saddening to hear your parents haven't changed their stance. Oh for sure, the best thing you could have done was to move it. I hope everything's better now my dude x.
 

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Heya, how's it going in the land down under where nightmares are born? Lol

Anyways, you sir are in quite a pickle and I am here to offer you advice.

- For your well being, stay in the closet a little bit longer. As much as you may want to just be yourself to them, don't. You need to have a place of your own before coming out to your parents. When it comes to religious families raised on traditional values, you never know how they will react. I want to ensure that your safety comes first in case the worse happens. As much as I want to be optimistic for you, I rather not give you false hope but rather be a realist if it means protecting you from any possible harm. Having a place of your own will give you a safety net in case your parents kick you out. You won't have to be scared and wander around trying to figure out a housing situation. You wouldn't need to worry about food, clothes or shelter. You also wouldn't want to be sleeping in a household that makes you feel unsafe, unwanted or unloved. For you and your mental health, please find an alternative living situation before coming out to your parents.

- How long have you and your partner been officially together? I am only asking because people have mentioned that you both should buy a house together. I say no to that notion. I suggest that one person buys while the other person rents from them. This would make it easier on you both in case you two weren't meant to be. Having one person buy the house, they will be financed at their debt to income ratio to ensure they are able to afford the house by themselves. You both won't feel tied down if, and that's a big IF, if you two don't work out and then feeling trapped because of a mutual investment in a house together. But in the end, you know yourself and your partner best. Don't let me persuade you otherwise if you know it would be a good thing together.

- As you are trying to figure out what the best course of action is, just communicate with your partner. Tell them that you plan to move forward with them towards a future together but first you just need a little more time. Your living situation currently isn't ideal to inform your parents about your sexual orientation when they uphold such a strong belief towards biggotry. Btw, you stated "I respect their views and they are entitled to them, regardless if I disagree with them". Please don't.... That's just making excuses for them to look down upon anyone that's different. Anyone that doesn't follow their beliefs, or their cherry picked verses from the bible that's meant to single others out. Religion is meant to accept others for our differences, not to hate them because of it. But for some reason, it's just being used as weapons against anyone and everyone who doesn't follow their path.

- I hope your parents automatically choose you over what some book says about you. I hope that you and your family can connect better than before, without the lies and you being able to be your true self. But, blood doesn't necessarily make a family. Family are those that love one another. That will be there in a heartbeat for each other when in need. That will love each other unconditionally. Many people in your shoes learned that the hard way. Why love someone who won't love you back? Regardless of what happens, just know this. You have done absolutely nothing wrong by just being yourself. You shouldn't have had to hide who you are to begin with. Once you are able to tell your family, you will finally be able to breathe. You will be scared shitless just as you burst out of the closet but that weight will be lifted soon after. It's up to them if they want to keep their son in their lives. If they don't treat you right, they don't deserve you. You deserve to be happy and if you aren't happy, something needs to change, otherwise if it doesn't, years can go by without you realizing it. That's a sad truth.

Alrighty, I tried my best to proof read but I just gotten done with an overnight shift and was dozing in and out of this response to you lol. Almost fell asleep 5 times typing as I apparently held down onto keys for far too long as my eyes were shut resulting in a jumble mess lol. Also, welcome to lpsg! I can finally sleep! Yay! Lol
 

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Heya, how's it going in the land down under where nightmares are born? Lol

Anyways, you sir are in quite a pickle and I am here to offer you advice.

- For your well being, stay in the closet a little bit longer. As much as you may want to just be yourself to them, don't. You need to have a place of your own before coming out to your parents. When it comes to religious families raised on traditional values, you never know how they will react. I want to ensure that your safety comes first in case the worse happens. As much as I want to be optimistic for you, I rather not give you false hope but rather be a realist if it means protecting you from any possible harm. Having a place of your own will give you a safety net in case your parents kick you out. You won't have to be scared and wander around trying to figure out a housing situation. You wouldn't need to worry about food, clothes or shelter. You also wouldn't want to be sleeping in a household that makes you feel unsafe, unwanted or unloved. For you and your mental health, please find an alternative living situation before coming out to your parents.

- How long have you and your partner been officially together? I am only asking because people have mentioned that you both should buy a house together. I say no to that notion. I suggest that one person buys while the other person rents from them. This would make it easier on you both in case you two weren't meant to be. Having one person buy the house, they will be financed at their debt to income ratio to ensure they are able to afford the house by themselves. You both won't feel tied down if, and that's a big IF, if you two don't work out and then feeling trapped because of a mutual investment in a house together. But in the end, you know yourself and your partner best. Don't let me persuade you otherwise if you know it would be a good thing together.

- As you are trying to figure out what the best course of action is, just communicate with your partner. Tell them that you plan to move forward with them towards a future together but first you just need a little more time. Your living situation currently isn't ideal to inform your parents about your sexual orientation when they uphold such a strong belief towards biggotry. Btw, you stated "I respect their views and they are entitled to them, regardless if I disagree with them". Please don't.... That's just making excuses for them to look down upon anyone that's different. Anyone that doesn't follow their beliefs, or their cherry picked verses from the bible that's meant to single others out. Religion is meant to accept others for our differences, not to hate them because of it. But for some reason, it's just being used as weapons against anyone and everyone who doesn't follow their path.

- I hope your parents automatically choose you over what some book says about you. I hope that you and your family can connect better than before, without the lies and you being able to be your true self. But, blood doesn't necessarily make a family. Family are those that love one another. That will be there in a heartbeat for each other when in need. That will love each other unconditionally. Many people in your shoes learned that the hard way. Why love someone who won't love you back? Regardless of what happens, just know this. You have done absolutely nothing wrong by just being yourself. You shouldn't have had to hide who you are to begin with. Once you are able to tell your family, you will finally be able to breathe. You will be scared shitless just as you burst out of the closet but that weight will be lifted soon after. It's up to them if they want to keep their son in their lives. If they don't treat you right, they don't deserve you. You deserve to be happy and if you aren't happy, something needs to change, otherwise if it doesn't, years can go by without you realizing it. That's a sad truth.

Alrighty, I tried my best to proof read but I just gotten done with an overnight shift and was dozing in and out of this response to you lol. Almost fell asleep 5 times typing as I apparently held down onto keys for far too long as my eyes were shut resulting in a jumble mess lol. Also, welcome to lpsg! I can finally sleep! Yay! Lol
What an excellent from the heart advice.

I learned very early that its ok for one of my parent to "slightly" prefer my brother over me. I accepted he was harder working, talked less back etc. I learned to be ok with it. It was a good lesson for life that we might not always be everyone's cup of coffee but we might be someone else Margherita ;)

My parents grew up in a small city in eastern Europe and there was zero reference to any positive gay character. The only "positive" ones we learned about were the ones on TV dying of AIDS at that time...(sorry)

I got good advice back then. To ask myself 3 questions:

1. are you financially dependent on your parents (and for example if you are in school or university and they will not accept you and will cancel your school tuition) Finish your education first.

2. Will you be not ok and not suffer if they choose to never to speak to you

3. If you become homeless and you have no safe place to live because you depend on housing with them.
If any of these answers are Yes, then wait a little bit with coming out and communicate your situation with your partner.

Then I was told to thing of the parent that might be more receptive or accepting that you are gay and plan on first to tell that parent and also discuss what would be the best way to deliver the news to the other one.

I learned that our parents might never completely accept what they believe its "a choice or a lifestyle" which it took me little time to educate my parents that its not. But I still love them and funny thing 20 year later my mom told me on the phone that considering "my situation" I am the more "normal" of her 3 kids...lol

Another lesson I learned was that in general our parents just really want us to have a safe and happy life, and they have zero reference to any other gay people in their lives and what that life looks like. So be that good reference for them ;)

Once in a while I throw in a gay themed joke about myself just to make them giggle and see that I am completely comfortable about this topic and that they can relax and not walk around like hot fire..

This was big decision for me to make. My dad brough up a bible and Adam and Eve and was trying to explain "God wanted this" So I asked him "if he finds more morally acceptable for me to have sexual relation with my sister or my mother then a man hat is not related to our family" He never mentioned bible again. All being said today I am happy I found the courage and was able to live my true life and introduce my boyfriends over the year etc...

I really like paragraph 3 from Beefderky. My parents had different views but over the years I was able to help them understand more inclusive and accepting way of life and today my mom speaks out if anyone is talking shit about gays in front of her :) :)

I hope this helps.

(I also found this really good link on Wiki: How to Come Out to Your Parents (with Pictures) - wikiHow )